E2 Reform Event

[chris]

For all you who followed the Heather Wilson Bill on the reform of the E2 Visa, the bill has been taken up by Congressman Adam Putnam of Polk County.
Zoe Adams has worked to push this as much as she can with politicians, and whilst it is not perfect it is a start nonetheless.
Zoe has organized an Event for Friday October 23rd at the OMNI Resort and Hotel, ChampoionsGate, Kissimmee. The event will start at 5.00pm and end at 9.00pm.
There is a cash bar and you will need to make your own arrangements for eats. The Hotel is offering discounted room if you to stay over, though I personally think they are expensive at over $100 bucks per night.
Adam Putnam will be there (all being well) and other 'VIPS" are anticipated. As the crap nature of the E2 Visa affects kids the most, feel free to bring your kids along.
This is a once only chance for E2'rs to get together and hopefully show to the politicians that this visa needs an overhaul. The President has said that Immigration Reform will happen next year, so the sooner and stronger we can get our message out there the better chance we have at success.
If you plan on going email Zoe at zadams@tampabay.rr.com

PLEASE TELL AS MANY E2'RS AS YOU CAN ABOUT THIS EVENT

[kirtida8]

thanks for the update Chris, and I will definitely try to make it.

[Ed Tha Brit]

Chris,

Thank you for the information on E-2 Reform, my wife and I will also try and attend what I regard as a very important meeting for all businesses on E-2 Visa's ( It's our chance to have a town hall meeting):fit:

Have a nice Day

Ed Tha Brit

[Susie]

Well done Zoe for your efforts, will try and make it, hope this bill goes through

[another1]

What's 'we'll try and make it' all about?? It seems like this site has had endless complaints and gripes about the way we E2'rs are treated, then we are given an opportunity to actually show our concerns, thanks to the efforts of Zoe, and people are still holding back. Friday October 23rd from 5pm to 9pm (that's just 4 hours!) should be a priority to all and everyone connected to E2 visa's. Be there or forever hold your peace. :)

[alanbcook]

Have already R.S.V.P.'d Zoe we Will be there!

Alan & Lyn

[jim]

What's 'we'll try and make it' all about?? It seems like this site has had endless complaints and gripes about the way we E2'rs are treated, then we are given an opportunity to actually show our concerns, thanks to the efforts of Zoe, and people are still holding back. Friday October 23rd from 5pm to 9pm (that's just 4 hours!) should be a priority to all and everyone connected to E2 visa's. Be there or forever hold your peace. :)

i'll be there with my daughter.:angel:

[Ed Tha Brit]

What's 'we'll try and make it' all about?? It seems like this site has had endless complaints and gripes about the way we E2'rs are treated, then we are given an opportunity to actually show our concerns, thanks to the efforts of Zoe, and people are still holding back. Friday October 23rd from 5pm to 9pm (that's just 4 hours!) should be a priority to all and everyone connected to E2 visa's. Be there or forever hold your peace. :)

Another1,

I hope you were not refering to me in your quote?

I have already spoken to Zoe and will be attending, after being here for 10 years I fully agree with everything that Zoe is trying to do for all on E-2 Visa's

Hope to meet you there??

Ed Tha Brit

[another1]

Another1,

I hope you were not refering to me in your quote?

I have already spoken to Zoe and will be attending, after being here for 10 years I fully agree with everything that Zoe is trying to do for all on E-2 Visa's

Hope to meet you there??

Ed Tha Brit

It refers to anyone who says they will 'try' to be there...I think it should be a 'must' for all concerned...evidently you will be there so my 'quote' shouldn't bother you. See you there

[Steve in clermont]

i going ...

[InnVic]

What's 'we'll try and make it' all about?? It seems like this site has had endless complaints and gripes about the way we E2'rs are treated, then we are given an opportunity to actually show our concerns, thanks to the efforts of Zoe, and people are still holding back. Friday October 23rd from 5pm to 9pm (that's just 4 hours!) should be a priority to all and everyone connected to E2 visa's. Be there or forever hold your peace. :)

...do bear in mind not every E2 holder lives in Florida.

[grumps]

i might want reminding a couple of days before hand.

[Kirstie]

I'll be there.

Looking forward to meeting all of you "in person".

[Susie]

i might want reminding a couple of days before hand.

Nice to know that non E 2 holders are willing to support, any change in these ridiculous laws must hlep, if not all but at least some will benefit

[Susie]

i might want reminding a couple of days before hand.

Nice to know that non E 2 holders are willing to support, any change in these ridiculous laws must help, if not all but at least some will benefit

[TerryB]

CU there

Regards Terry B

[grumps]

just received this by email and i thought i would post it just as a reminder of the hard work she is doing and hope that a lot of people turn up.

Hi, I am writing this e-mail to you because I saw your details on the FABB website, so I am thinking you must be a British person living and working in Florida.

I am one of the co-founders of E2Reform.org and we are a group who are trying to bring about changes to the E2 Visa. We are hoping that legislation will bring about change to allow us to apply for Green Cards having fulfilled certain criteria. Maybe you are living here on this visa, or maybe you have friends, neighbours or colleagues who are, so I hope you will carry on reading this e-mail even if you are not an E2 Visa Holder and think this doesn’t concern you personally.

We are arranging an ‘E2 Visa Reform Reception’ on Friday, October 23rd from 5.00-9.00pm at the Omni Resort at ChampionsGate, Orlando. We are hoping for a large turnout to show the politicians and the media that we need to be included in any Immigration changes that are going to happen in this Congress. There has been a Bill introduced to Congress to address this problem, but we need lots of publicity and support before it will become law.

So I am writing to tell you about our Event and hope you, or anyone else you know on an E2 Visa, may consider attending. If not, then maybe you might be happy to advertise the Event for us in your area and I have included a Flyer/Poster that you could print out. I have included this in the e-mail, as I didn’t want to add an attachment in case you were wary of opening it, but if it hasn’t come out well then I can re send it. If you are willing to do this, we would be so grateful, but please let us know where you could be able to place the poster, so we can keep track of other places to advertise.

If you would like to know more information about this Event, or what we are trying to achieve, then please e-mail me and I will send you our Newsletter and add you to our Database for future updates. You can also visit our website at www.E2Reform.org

Ok, so here comes my ‘cheeky’ question - another way in which you could help us is to provide a prize for our ‘Chance Drawing’. This will be the only way the Event is being funded, as we are not charging an Entrance Fee, and so far E2Reform is footing the bill. We will be printing a flyer with all the details of the Prize Donors and this could be a way of you advertising your company to a large group of mainly British people – there will be other nationalities there as well.

Thank you so much for reading this e-mail and I look forward to hearing from you if you feel you can help us.

Yours

Zoe Adams

863 709 9555

www.E2Reform.org

zadams@tampabay.rr.com

We would like to invite you to an

‘E2 Visa Reform Reception’



Friday October 23rd 5.00pm till 9.00pm





Omni Resort at ChampionsGate, Orlando - Junction 58 on I4



Guest Speakers



Meet and Greet Fellow E2 Visa Holders



Bring Awareness of our Reform Hopes for the E2 Visa to the Media

‘Chance Drawings’ with prizes from E2 Businesses



RSVP Please to 863 709 9555 or zadams@tampabay.rr.com

[Puddin]

Hi, any info is worth knowing count us in we will be their
Regards Puddin

[charliesmum]

Hi Grumps

Thank you so much for posting the info.

Are you going to come along?

Terry - can you RSVP to me so I have your details and I can update you as we go along.

Zoe

[grumps]

Hi Grumps

Thank you so much for posting the info.

Are you going to come along?

Terry - can you RSVP to me so I have your details and I can update you as we go along.

Zoe

i am planing to, might need a kick in the ass to remind me on the morning. as i shall have lost my calender she will be back in the UK :(:(

[chris]

Grumps,
Here's a little suggestion...
You have a fridge door I presume?
You have a felt tip pen I presume?
You have paper I presume?
You have sticky tape I presume?
Write your self a reminder not and stick it on the fridge!!!:):):):)

[grumps]

Grumps,
Here's a little suggestion...
You have a fridge door I presume?
You have a felt tip pen I presume?
You have paper I presume?
You have sticky tape I presume?
Write your self a reminder not and stick it on the fridge!!!:):):):)

i have nothing every thing is in transit, or will be by then :p:p

[Ed Tha Brit]

Hi everybody,

I have put a package together for the E-2 Reform Event on the 23rd October and Zoe has asked me to let ya' all know about it?

1 night stay at the best Bed & Breakfast on the Nature Coast for 2 people
2 kayaks or 1 tamdem kayak to use for the day on the beautiful Withlacoochee River
Evening Meal for 2 people in Crystal River.

I have not advertised the suppliers.............per the rules of the forum!

Hope you can all attend this event and who knows, you might be the winner of this little gettaway on Florida's Nature Coast?

Perhaps you want to help by donating a prize for the event contact Zoe?

See ya' all there?

Have a nice Day

Ed Tha Brit

[kirtida8]

Thanks Ed - sounds wonderful and look forward to seeing you there.

[Flower Power]

Zoe, I brought this up at the Chamber meeting today and it was suggested Mike Horner gets involved. He sits on the Florida House of Representatives and the Chamber and as half the Kissimmee members must be on an E2 I am sure he would be interested.

Also how do we donate door prizes. Thanks

[charliesmum]

It's a shame but Mike Horner will be visiting Washington with the Kissimmee Chamber on the night of our Event. I have a message into his office and also John Woods, who it was also suggested I contact. Although they are State Reps and therefore aren't in a position to change legislation, their support could be a big help.

Helen, I will e-mail you about what to do with your Raffle prize.

Thanks a lot

Zoe

[Steve in clermont]

I hope i get to meet quiet a few of you at the event. I have offered something as a prize , so im hoping to promote myself at the same time.
This event has been a long time coming and i think it should be important to us all.

[British Redneck]

She-that-must-be-obeyed and I will be there so look out for a pipe-smoking ol' fart with a purple haired wife.

[grumps]

She-that-must-be-obeyed and I will be there so look out for a pipe-smoking ol' fart with a purple haired wife.

this a good reason for attending

http://www.news-journalonline.com/NewsJournalOnline/News/Headlines/frtHEAD01101809.htm

[charliesmum]

Jacky and Alan are a lovely couple. Alan used to play for Preston North End and played in the FA Cup Final , I think in 1963.

They are coming along to the Event.

Zoe

[InnVic]

its a sad story but one all too frequently repeated. Laura and Dean Franks in Wells Maine had their appeal denied a few weeks ago and are trying everything to avoid deportation - but this seems unlikely to be successful. You'd think even if they didn't change the rules to allow Green cards they'd at least consider a re-write of the E2 guidelines (specifying you need employees and X amount of profit if this is the way that they intend to interpret it) to give people specific guidance to make the decision and not have to second guess if they Embassy are going to grant a renewal. At least this way you have a little security.

[Ed Tha Brit]

its a sad story but one all too frequently repeated. Laura and Dean Franks in Wells Maine had their appeal denied a few weeks ago and are trying everything to avoid deportation - but this seems unlikely to be successful. You'd think even if they didn't change the rules to allow Green cards they'd at least consider a re-write of the E2 guidelines (specifying you need employees and X amount of profit if this is the way that they intend to interpret it) to give people specific guidance to make the decision and not have to second guess if they Embassy are going to grant a renewal. At least this way you have a little security.

May I add,

This will also send a message to Investers who are looking at the USA to start up a small business, they may think Twice?

[grumps]

this is where Victoria ray's article can help, if it is played in the UK and is put over correctly to explain the pit falls. and there is a big drop in the numbers of people applying for E-2 then it will force the USA to re-look at the way they treat people, but while there are more people applying then there are places then what do they care.

[chris]

So if Jacky & Alan go to the E2 event Friday, will they be allowed to tell their story? From what I gather, the event is geared to being positive about what we can do for the USA rather than hearing about these realities which are described as 'moans' in some quarters.
As for InnVic's comment about clear cut benchmarks for the E2 visa, I completely agree. The present 'guidelines' based on the immigration law are subject to personal interpretation by the adjudicating official at each and every US Embassy or Consulate. If that isn't woolly thinking, I don't know what is. Clear, concise benchmarks of what the US expects of each Visa category would be the fairest and best way forward. At least everyone knows what's expected.
Will these articles about E2 visa holders getting the s****y end of the stick be read by prospective E2 investors in the UK? What do you think? I cannot for one minute see the magazine Emigrate America publishing these stories and most VC's are happy for these things to go away quickly. I think the term is called 'vested interest'!!!

[charliesmum]

Chris

Yes Jacky and Alan will actually be telling their story on Friday - mainly because they have a different angle and set of problems eg Retirement and having been here so long and not wanting to have to live somewhere else.

I know I have been very firm about stressing the Positive side of what we bring to the US and making that the theme of the evening on Friday, but there will also be room to bring up the problems. I just don't want that side to take over. You suggested to me that we 'hand a mike round' and let people have their say, but I think that will then turn into a huge moaning session. If the evening becomes nothing but that we will lose any sympathy from Reporters, TV Crews and any politicians that may come. They want to know the Good we do.

I agree there are lots of changes that should be made to the E2 and how it is put in place, but the Legislators won't be doing that. They would be getting the Bill through Congress and the Senate.

I agree we do need to make a Big Push to change how the Embassies work and getting UCSIS and them to work better together, but I can't do everything on my own. There has been a handful of us working so far and this Event will hopefully get more people fired up to try and make change. We can work together after the Event. There are lots of Immigration Attorneys attending and I will probably ask them to do a small Q&A session, but if suddenly a couple of politicians tell me they are coming, that may have to be put aside. That is why I have not been able to write an Official Agenda and probably won't be doing so, as things will change right up until the last minute.

I have put a lot of time and effort into making this Event a success and having nearly 350 people attending and getting together to talk about how to move forward I think is a good job. I'm not expecting thanks for it because it affects my family as much as any other E2 family, but the reality is we aren't going to change everything for every E2 Visa Holder.

We can't do everything at once so we are concentrating on getting major changes to the legislative side of things and then hopefully other things will follow suit.

If you have ideas about how to change things in other ways, why haven't you gone about doing so. Anyone can do what I've done.

Zoe

[dip your toe]

So if Jacky & Alan go to the E2 event Friday, will they be allowed to tell their story? From what I gather, the event is geared to being positive about what we can do for the USA rather than hearing about these realities which are described as 'moans' in some quarters.

It is essential that "What can we do for the USA, and how current legislation is hindering businesses achieving those goals." is highlighted at the event. A moaning session will fall on deaf ears.

What are the aims of the event, in order of importance, and how are they going to be presented?

As for InnVic's comment about clear cut benchmarks for the E2 visa, I completely agree. The present 'guidelines' based on the immigration law are subject to personal interpretation by the adjudicating official at each and every US Embassy or Consulate. If that isn't woolly thinking, I don't know what is. Clear, concise benchmarks of what the US expects of each Visa category would be the fairest and best way forward. At least everyone knows what's expected.

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, it's not 'woolly thinking on the Embassy's part. The more discretion they have the more power they have in their hands. Ambiguity in the rules always falls in favour of those who make them.

Will these articles about E2 visa holders getting the s****y end of the stick be read by prospective E2 investors in the UK? What do you think? I cannot for one minute see the magazine Emigrate America publishing these stories and most VC's are happy for these things to go away quickly. I think the term is called 'vested interest'!!!

Totally agree. Dreams and promises of sailing your own boat. swimming in your own pool and still being able to have your Branston Pickle and Coronation Street will keep them coming. Guess who'll be lined up to purchase the E2 businesses that have been denied? Any bets on another E2er who's been sold on the dream and given a hyped up business plan to squeeze them through the E2 process.

[kirtida8]

Hi Zoe,

I was wondering if the British Consulate was going to be attending? I only ask because I feel that they need to do more to help victims of scams here by at least letting us know that they are warning Brits about them and how to avoid them. It seems that (on the surface at any rate) that criminals seem to get away with a lot and that neither government is doing anything about stopping them - case in point Mick Leggett who seems to be living free and easy back in the UK. How can you make a legitimate case for change without including some sort of legislation that closes the loopholes in Florida that allows these scum to continue to operate? I have just learned of another Brit business that siphoned all income to their UK bank accounts and now are refusing to pay their employees or debtors here. Unfortunately all the employees are USC's and it really doesn't help our cause any in their eyes as they feel that now they cant trust their Brit employers and don't want to work for a Brit again. Unless something is done to clean up the mess - I feel that we are always going to be fighting a losing battle to win over the hearts and minds of USC's, and it is important to get them on board as they are the ones who have a vote and can get change by lobbying their elected representatives. That doesn't mean that the work Zoe is doing is worthless - but it just makes it that much harder for us to get results. This is just my opinion though - and I still intend to go to the event and help in any way I can.

[charliesmum]

DYT - The main aim of the event is to get publicity for the fact that there are people living in the US who are investing, employing and spending and are not able to stay long term.

I fully believe that if more of the legislators knew about us, we would have more of them helping us. As soon as I told Adam Putnam what our futures were like and how that affected plans to expand and so on, he was behind us. He was also very keen on helping kids who had been through the Education system here, be able to be a benefit to the US in the future.

The regular ways of trying to get to see Members of Congress and Senators are virtually impossible - it took me a year to get an appointment with Adam Putnam - so if we can get the 'right' publicity, it can only do us good.

Don't you fancy coming and joining us?

Zoe

[charliesmum]

Kay - I did invite the British Consulate but they weren't able to attend.

Zoe

[InnVic]

My point has always been that for some (and I include Jon and I in that group) we have no issue with the E2 visa law (and even the guidelines) and its temporary nature IF JUDICIOUSLY APPLIED AS ITS CURRENTLY WRITTEN (which as I've stated ad nauseaum does not specify an exact sum for profit/owner benefit or two or more full time employees on salaries to be determined by the Embassy ) From a purely personal point of view it was never our intention to stay more than 10 years, we don't wish to retire in the US, we don't have children that will age out, we pay all our taxes and are making more than a reasonable living from the business - which is all the Immigration and nationality act specific to E2 states. However due to the ambiguity and biased "interpretation" we and many like us, fell foul of the system. While I accept that for many the security of a green card is a very desirable conclusion to years of hard work and investement this visa always has been "temporary" in nature. I personally wanted to believe that the fact that those on E2 will never (under current laws) have any basis of security or long term future in the US, so as such, this would result in a reasonable application of the laws when considering renewal - however its apparent that there is no understanding or compassion (or parity)when considering the impact on investors (and the community they have invested in) that a denial based on harsh application of an unjustifiable interpretation can have.

I wish Zoe and the E2 reform group every success in transforming this catagory of visa into something that people can feel confident of investing in. As it stands, I would passionatly discourage anyone from considering investing their life savings in this country as the risk of the dream turning into a nightmare is very real. If we lived nearer Florida I would be there :-)

[chris]

Zoe,
You know my feelings about getting E2 reform. I am myself, so want change that will improve our lot. I am not naive to know that change will come easily. What 'we' win, will be won by hard work by all concerned.
On the event itself, you and I have PM'd and you know what I have suggested and what you have discarded. I did indeed use the words 'open mic' but not in the sense you state. I made it clear to you that like public meetings and town hall meetings as are held throughout this country, the audience may be entitled to speak with limitations both on time and content. I am not advocating a moan free for all as you seem to suggest. I did say to you that if someone did want to raise a 'negative', it must be balanced by them suggesting a solution to it. That way you avoid moans for moans sake.

I do not appreciate your last comment which seems to suggest that I am some sort of armchair commentator.
"If you have ideas about how to change things in other ways, why haven't you gone about doing so. Anyone can do what I've done."

Remarks like that do nothing to encourage people to want to get involved. I get the feeling that you are feeling people are being critical of your efforts. They are not and I am not. We both want the same goals.

[Carl]

I must admit that if you start getting a load of moaners then people will switch off, and that is not what you want, you dont want the Americans to get the attitude of " we have enough of our own problems without yours" Zoe has it right I think, it should be informative to those attending and should not be a free for all as that could start a " ohh god here we go again" scenario.

Come on you Guys, dont start falling out when you are so close to the possibility of something good hapening for you.

Carl.

[chris]

I don't think anyone wants it to be a moaning session and it has to be about galvanizing people to support this proposed legislation.
My comment was about the remark that I was advocating a free for all. I am not. But Zoe has said that one couple is going to tell their story and their desire for a retirement visa. I have a friend going who is in a similar situation and I know for a fact he will not sit quietly in the audience if he feels that his story or views are being ignored. There are 350 people in the audience and I would guess everyone has their own story too.
You cannot tell folks to simply zip it, especially if you want their support. They should be allowed to be heard BUT in a controlled way. That's all I'm saying - in a controlled way. If you don't, you end up with an uncontrolled rabble. That is what I am afraid of for Zoe's sake as I know how much she has put into this. You want reasoned adults with an understanding of the problems and issues and solutions, not irrational hotheads.
The way I see it, Visas are a two way street. What you can do for them in exchange for what they can do for you. With the E2, we all know there are glaring flaws which need fixing. By fixing them, it will allow the Visa holder to be more effective, more profitable and hence more successful at helping the US economy. If you ignore the flaws and expect folks to keep beating their heads against a brick wall. After a while, even the dumbest person thinks, perhaps I should stop banging my head cos it just pains me when I do it. That's when the inward investment stops and the money goes elsewhere.
BUT, of course the marketing of America and the good life will continue and the Visa industry and all it's peripherals will continue and more mugs will be separated from their hard earned savings.

[InnVic]

I must admit that if you start getting a load of moaners then people will switch off, and that is not what you want, .

but you also don't want to sugar coat it.... there has to be a balance.

[Carl]

No you are right Invic, I think that everyone who will be attending will know the down side, I think that Zoe is trying to find a route forward by pointing out teh good that the visa holders do during the limited time that teh 350 people have, that way people will listen.

Chis yes your right i am sure about the visa industry. and I suspect. no I am not going to bite.


I hope that it all goes well and someone with some authority listens to what is said and that you get what you want from it all. Good luck to you all and have a great night.

Carl.

[chris]

Carl,
You're old enough and ugly enough (so am I!) to know that not all within the Visa industry (and it is a big industry) are good guys. We've seen Doug Hall, we've seen the guy from Norfolk (I had the misfortune to deal with both of em). But it mainly starts with the glossy magazines such as Emigrate America and the glossy tradeshows, where the American' Dream' is sold en masse. If you make it here, yes the life is good (from a personal definition of good point of view). The picture of the outdoor pool has a lot to answer for! It then moves on along the food chain to the Attorneys, Consultants and Business Brokers, some of whom go through the motions and do not bring their own expertise and experience to bear in 'advising' people whether they should or should not. The general view seems to be 'they are adults, they made the decision, who am I to dissuade them'. I am sure you advise your clients what the sheer realities are and if it doesn't look they can square the circle, you tell them honestly of their prospects. IMHO far to much of telling people what they want to hear goes on and I also accept that there are many who have their rose tinted specs superglued on and don't want to hear the truth.
What did Jack Nicholson say in that military courtroom 'you couldn't handle the truth'!!:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[dip your toe]

DYT - The main aim of the event is to get publicity for the fact that there are people living in the US who are investing, employing and spending and are not able to stay long term.

I fully believe that if more of the legislators knew about us, we would have more of them helping us. As soon as I told Adam Putnam what our futures were like and how that affected plans to expand and so on, he was behind us. He was also very keen on helping kids who had been through the Education system here, be able to be a benefit to the US in the future.

The regular ways of trying to get to see Members of Congress and Senators are virtually impossible - it took me a year to get an appointment with Adam Putnam - so if we can get the 'right' publicity, it can only do us good.

Don't you fancy coming and joining us?

Zoe

Thanks Zoe. In answer to your question, I've been deliberating about attending for a few weeks now. My fear is that it will degenerate into a whinging session and that will over shadow what you are trying to achieve. Also, I have not heard, on this or any other forum, anything constructive as to what any opposing arguements to E2 reform could be. Are we prepared, or even considered any counter arguements?

I'll play devil's advocate. :)

What if, once the E2er receives their green card they sell their investment and retire or just get a job in the US? After all this is what happens with many L1 shysters who discard their UK business once their green card has come through. I'm sure the USCIS are aware of this.

Was anyone fully unaware of the implications of the rules, regulations and consequences of an E2 visa prior to applying for one. If so, where does the blame lie? at the end of the day due diligence plays a big part.

Most E2ers, certainly in Florida, are not business investors per se, but rather people who have come across on holiday, liked the life style, sold their UK home at the peak of the housing boom and took advantage of the $2 to the pound exchange rate. They may have good intentions, but little practical means of achieving them.

The US has got the investment, the investment has failed, goodbye, time to let some else have a go with their money.

Kids aging out? We're having trouble finding jobs for the indigenous youth, why should we accomodate others. Besides, if you're desperate for them to stay, they can go on F1 and we'll collect more money from you in extortionate college fees.

"Immigrants have mass meeting to try and change immigration law." Sounds like a Daily Mail headline :)

Has anyone been denied renewal who met all the requirements of the E2 visa?

Investing is about taking risks . It's business pure and simple.

***

O.K. enough of the devil's advocate. Perhaps someone can add more counter arguements. As the old BP used to say, be prepared.

[JulieC]

What if, once the E2er receives their green card they sell their investment and retire or just get a job in the US? After all this is what happens with many L1 shysters who discard their UK business once their green card has come through. I'm sure the USCIS are aware of this.


Many L1 people sell the US side of the business too as well as the UK side of the business, if there ever was a proper one, the minute their green card comes through. Have seen it over and over. Maybe the way to go on E2 would be to make the green card conditional for two years as they do with EB5, ie you need to keep your business for a certain amount of time before you get the conditions removed. They could do with doing the same with L1 too, at the moment it is a joke.

[Ed Tha Brit]

DYT,

I fully support some of the points that you have put forward regarding people moving across from other shores to the US to start thier dream but, not everybody was told the truth when making thier investments? I don't how long you have lived here but, my wife and I have seen our fair share of people coming over and thinking they could just buy a house in Orlando and get a job here...etc....etc or the people who thought buying a business here is easy and cheap and been denied in London from the get go and then finally the people who bought businesses only to find out that they had been screwed, either by the owner or by the immigration advisor's.

What Zoe is doing is putting forward to the powers that be, that business people from all over the globe are investing in the US and those that are or have been succesful should be rewarded. The rest of us will just have to hope the immigration reform will help them too. My wife and I will be there to support this event even if our time runs out before changed are made?

Have a nice Day

Ed Tha Brit

[charliesmum]

DYT

I'll try and answer your comments.

I will not let the Event turn into a Whinging Marathon. I have said, I know there will be people there who will want to have a say and I am not against people talking or asking questions, but there is no point in 10 or 12 people standing up and saying the same thing - that was why I didn't want an open mike situation.

I asked Jacky and Alan to speak because they have been here longer than any one else I knew and they could highlight the Retirement side. They also have a story with Alan being an Ex Professional Football player and being invited here in the first place. Yes there may well be people who could discard or sell their business when they retire or even when they get their Green card, but would they do that to a successful business. They still will have brought foreign investment in originally and probably invested a lot more since then. With future stability E2 Visa Holders are more likely to expand or open new avenues.

I would think a large percentage of people knew the restrictions of the Visa when they came - and I am always very careful to tell anyone I speak to about my hopes for reform that I did know them, but that shouldn't take away hopes for Reform in the future. Surely Due Diligence is only the checks on the business you are buying.

Re kids aging out - yes they can go on F1, but they then have to find a job that enables them to stay at the end of their college years and that is becoming increasingly more difficult. As I said in my last post the politicians don't like the idea of the US paying for education that isn't put to good use in the future.

I hope to be prepared and want this meeting to be the next step in a new era for E2 Visa Holders. Getting to get the politicians to understand what we're trying to do is the easy part - it's getting to sit in front of them and tell them that's hard.

Zoe

[kirtida8]

If you use the old argument that immigrants take away jobs from USC - like the ads put forward by the coalition for the American worker ( how do they come up with the figure of 1m foreign workers coming in per year!!) - then we will always lose. We have to show that we create or sustain jobs that would otherwise be lost through investment in existing or the creation of new businesses. After all, isn't it small businesses that provide the majority of jobs in the US and are classed as being the backbone of the middle class? I agree with Julie C's point in that any change should be conditional for a few years to safeguard the business investment and maybe even include a requirement for creating at least 1 additional job for a USC once the GC has been granted.

[grumps]

how about people that have property in the UK that brings in a regular amount of money each week and they spend it over here, does that not add to the USA economy, maybe there should be a form that we sign saying that we will not take any hand out or be a burden on the state, now or at any time in the future.

[byjove]

there will always be 2 types of American

Type 1. Supports LEGAL immigrants and will do what ever they can to help us to stay

Type 2. If you were not born on American soil, you dont belong and I will move hell or high water to keep you out.

Unfortunatly Immigration hires only type 2 people to "defend" the borders. I think part of the application is "do you have a deep seating dislike for anything not American" check the yes box, do you enjoy watching people suffer whne they come before you and can you look them in the eye and deny them their living even if they have been living on American soil for x amount of years and your not in a good mood that day? yes! then, you have the job.

[chris]

The issues surrounding the E2 visa and the effects on family are complex as has been mentioned earlier with some of the scenarios. The solution can be as easy or as complex as the US wants to make it.
It's very easy to say, all E2'rs knew what they were getting before they came. If that is how it viewed, then we all may as well pack up and go home, along with 12,000,000 others who also knew what they were getting into when they chose to enter the US illegally!
But moaning will NOT get any of us anywhere. But if there are issues which need to be fixed and we can come up with solutions, that to me is entirely different.
Whether it's an L or E visa, it is the same thing ..inward $ investment to the USA. How the two visa holders are rewarded is entirely different and IMHO unfair and an issue that needs to be addressed. If an L visa holder has a UK 'business' and runs a US prop management biz for example and an E2'r runs a US prop management biz, pray tell me what is the difference with what happens in the USA? Should the US care what goes on in the UK?? It can also be argued that the E2'r in that scenario can devote 100% attention to the US biz, whereas the L can't (theoretically).
Taking the inward investment and what the E2'r does with it...Yes there are failures and there are successes, just like anywhere in the business world. I'd like to believe the latter far outweigh the former. If the E2'r grows their biz to where they are providing say USC's with full time jobs and security for them and their families, does it not seem ludicrous that the same permanency and security for family is denied to the actual investor who is tasking all the risks? Bob in Alberqueque who was the originator of this proposed E2 reform legislation runs an auto transmission shop, that last I heard employed over 10 folks full time and he had worked really hard at growing that business to where it is today.
If E2'rs can say we contribute x million dollars to the US economy and create x number of jobs under the present rules, I am sure the US will be happy to say, well that's OK carry on doing it, there is no benefit to the US to change the rules and they will still get the same $'s and the same number of jobs. Surely the case should be what MORE e2'rs can give if they are giving the LPR status for themselves and their families and thus freed from bureaucratic restrictions under immigration rules, have extra dollars for more investment freed up by not having to take all the family on renewals.
With regard to siblings, then LPR status would provide the permanency that so many youngsters crave, especially they when they have been here so long, it is their true home, not their birthplace. It would also address two other issues with sons and daughters. Firstly, not every son or daughter is bright enough or wants to go to college. Nonetheless they can be an asset to the US. Some families sadly have handicapped sons and daughters, in some cases through accidents or severe illness that took place in the US, Should they be asked to leave or allowed to play as valuable a role in US society as they can. As JulieC will testify, on aging out and siblings applying for F visas, even that is not a done deal. The embassy can and does look carefully at family links to the UK. If the parents and other brothers and sisters are in the US on E2, they can and may well take the view that there is immigrant intent and refuse the issue of an F visa.
On retirement, if E2's had LPR status post any reform, it would allow for family investment continuation in that business. So Dad can grow the business successfully and son can keep it going and growing, thus preserving as well as increasing the jobs for USC's and their families security.
Sure you will have some who will sell up as soon as they get their LPR status, but what will they do for income? Unless they have marketable job skills or a pile of $ in the bank, they would be better served staying where they are in their own business.
It's about money in the end..inward investment. Not what you have, but what you do with it. We have to convince them that we do so much more with the shackles removed.

[charliesmum]

Very good post Chris

We have just made a provisional Agenda and I have added time at the end for Questions and Comments.

The actual Speaking part of the Evening will start at 6.30 and hopefully last 1 - 1 and 1/2 hours.

Zoe

[InnVic]

Has anyone been denied renewal who met all the requirements of the E2 visa?

.

Most people that get denied probably do not meet the "current interpretation" of the FAM "guidelines". So those that do fall by the wayside probably don't have "at least two full time employees on salaries of $20k plus per year with owner salary/drawing/benefit of excess of 60K".

But if you are talking about those who could be preceived to meet all the requirements of the LAW whcih is the federal code and Immigration and nationality act where marginal business is described as:

"An enterprise that does not have the present or future capacity to generate more than enough income to provide a minimal living for the treaty investor and his or her family. An enterprise that does not have the capacity to generate such income but that has a present or future capacity to make a significant economic contribution is not a marginal enterprise"
Then yes I personally know of people who have been denied based on their foolishly relying on fair application of the law.

It reinforces my point - rewrite E2 requirements CLEARLY so that people are not misled.


P.S Chris Emigrate America did a "warts and all" article on E2 featuring our situation a year or so ago - so I'd like to believe they are trying to put over a balanced view - but as you so rightly said "people only hear what they want to hear".

[chris]

I have a belief that the E2 requirements are like the price of gas. Ever changing and subject to mysterious influences, which none of us aware of.:D:D:D:D

[InnVic]

I Ever changing and subject to mysterious influences, which none of us aware of.:D:D:D:D

my husband says that about me :-) (of course the influence is usually alcohol!)

[dip your toe]

Again, playing the devils advocate………..

DYT,

I fully support some of the points that you have put forward regarding people moving across from other shores to the US to start thier dream but, not everybody was told the truth when making thier investments? I don't how long you have lived here but, my wife and I have seen our fair share of people coming over and thinking they could just buy a house in Orlando and get a job here...etc....etc or the people who thought buying a business here is easy and cheap and been denied in London from the get go and then finally the people who bought businesses only to find out that they had been screwed, either by the owner or by the immigration advisor's.

At the end of the day those failures are entirely the fault of the buyer and will carry no weight with immigration reform.



What Zoe is doing is putting forward to the powers that be, that business people from all over the globe are investing in the US and those that are or have been succesful should be rewarded. The rest of us will just have to hope the immigration reform will help them too.

Are there enough, “successful” people to carry any weight? What is the definition of success, or more to the point, what is the USCIS’s definition of success? And if they ( USCIS ) are happy with the quota of “successful” people to date why change the rules?

Shouldn’t the question be, “ If you wish to get more success from E2 investors you need to provide more assistance for them to develop their skills, by relaxing the restrictions that are currently imposed on them and their families by the current regulations.

DYT

I'll try and answer your comments.

I will not let the Event turn into a Whinging Marathon. I have said, I know there will be people there who will want to have a say and I am not against people talking or asking questions, but there is no point in 10 or 12 people standing up and saying the same thing - that was why I didn't want an open mike situation.

I have a lot of sympathy and empathy with those who find themselves in desperate situations regarding possible or pending deportation or having to give up on their dream. I fear though that if the we overplay the compassionate card it will fall on deaf ears. It’s an investors visa, and by it’s very name it’s all about money. Compassion and doing what’s morally right will not play a part.



I would think a large percentage of people knew the restrictions of the Visa when they came - and I am always very careful to tell anyone I speak to about my hopes for reform that I did know them, but that shouldn't take away hopes for Reform in the future. Surely Due Diligence is only the checks on the business you are buying.

But a visa is necessary for the business, therefore it must be part of the due diligence process.

Re kids aging out - yes they can go on F1, but they then have to find a job that enables them to stay at the end of their college years and that is becoming increasingly more difficult. As I said in my last post the politicians don't like the idea of the US paying for education that isn't put to good use in the future.

But some politicians don’t like the idea of foreign nationals taking American jobs. Also, regarding due diligence and kids aging out. Most people I know have been told about it in advance, but a lot of people don’t consider it a problem when their kids are12 or under when they apply ( myself included )…………. Then the kids grow up !!!!!


Then yes I personally know of people who have been denied based on their foolishly relying on fair application of the law.

But technically the adjudicator was right. This is where the problems come in with the rules being open to so much interpretation. BTW, we were denied in 2002, which put a full stop to our long term business plan as we decided not to continue expanding and re-investing when a decision made by someone with no practical experience of running my business ( or perhaps any business ) could make a decision that could affect the future for me and my family. ( Even though, technically, he was correct. :( )

*****

I think Chris just about summed it all up in his post #54.

Does anyone have any stats on E2 applications?

How many are active? How many are granted? What is the percentage of failure? What is the average duration of the visa? Etc. etc.

[kirtida8]

Does anyone have any stats on E2 applications?

Try this link

http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/statistics/statistics_4391.html

[dip your toe]

Thanks Kay. From a quick glance that's an average of 29,000+ per year which includes spouse and children. Say 4 people per family. That's 7,000 visas per annum. Anyone know how many are issued to Brits?

Am I correct in saying not all E2 visas are specific to people buying businesses? I'm a bit vague on that.

[chris]

DYT,
You're right about the visa numbers. If reform is a 'battle', then the size of your army may well dictate your chances of success. The problem with the E2 visa and specifically the Brits is we have no real idea of the size of the army nor how to give everybody their marching orders. Staying on the analogy them, the choir has to be singing from the same song sheet and sadly the Brits don't.
On who gets the E2 visas, I have seen posted on some forums that Indians and Japanese make up the biggest number of E2 visas, though I have no idea where that information was gleaned from, so may be total fiction.
If 7,000 is a accurate number of E2 visas issued pa and they are not numerically limited, taking that number and those visa's already existing, the 3000 proposed in the reform would go as quickly as Walmart doorbusters do, and likely to countries other than the UK.

[charliesmum]

There will be a sheet of E2 Numbers in the folder of information being given out on Friday

Zoe

[Kriz1]

Last time I look in the Asian forums I use.. the Indians and Japanese had something on the table a chance for a greencard if you also had a degree ..that was a while ago and 3 PCs ago so I have no link anymore..I have kind of moved onto things that affect my own family more over the last year..so I'm really out the loop
Good luck with your meeting folks..

[Susie]

Hope this event goes well, it should do, am hoping to attend at some point Friday but I have to pick up a friend at the airport so fingers crossed, good luck everyone

[davidmartin_uk]

Figures from the yearbook of immigration statistics report show that for 2008 there were

52,687 British L1’s
17,919 British E2’s

This compares to

23,338 German L1’s
31,170 German E2’s
& a massive
37,507 Japanese L1’s
85,175 Japanese E2’s

Dave

[charliesmum]

The figures I have are from the Office of Immigration Statistics and they differ hugely from the figures on this chart that Kay has put up, unless Kay's figures are only for the Principal Visa Holder. Mine say in 2008 there were 180,270 E2 Visas including spouses and children, whereas the other chart says there was 40,093.

I have the 2007 and 2006 figures from the Department of State and someone else sent me a link to the Office of Immigration Statistics and I thought they would be the same. I had been looking for the Department of State one - this was a while ago - and hadn't been able to find last year's figures.


Again the figures for Britain are different in that mine say 17,919 and Kay's say 2,864 - probably the difference in all family members again. These figures are for all E Visas - they don't break it down into E2, 1,3 etc

Zoe

[charliesmum]

Just redone the figures, so they are all from the same place

More work on an already hectic day

Thanks Kay for putting that link up

Zoe

[JulieC]

Figures from the yearbook of immigration statistics report show that for 2008 there were

52,687 British L1’s
17,919 British E2’s

This compares to

23,338 German L1’s
31,170 German E2’s
& a massive
37,507 Japanese L1’s
85,175 Japanese E2’s

Dave

Wow a massive number of Japanese?? Are the Japanese interested in permanent residence?? I think I read somewhere that they come, make their money, and go home. Mind you as most of them are in California which is a bankrupt state, many of them may not even be making their money at the moment. It does show though that the Brits are a relatively low proportion, it is just that we have a high concentration of them in Florida so think there are more. It also goes to show that 3000 a year converting to green card is a drop in the ocean.

[chris]

85,000 Sushi Bars..god!!

Seriously, Julie is right, the 3000 GC's if approved would be lost in the overall numbers and methinks that in the final analysis, it might be likely that the Brits do all the work and get none of there rewards of this reform, if approved. Perhaps, in the light of this data, the main developers of the reform act may need to reconsider how they push the Brits case. I wonder whether when the reform was first started and Bob in Alberquerque may be able to answer this, was this overall number of E2 visas known or was it a case of viewing it from the Brit perspective only?
Do you know Zoe?

[InnVic]

Again the figures for Britain are different in that mine say 17,919 and Kay's say 2,864 - probably the difference in all family members again. These figures are for all E Visas - they don't break it down into E2, 1,3 etc

Zoe

I believe the difference is that there are 2864 NEW businesses/investors approved for E2 in 2008 - and there are 17,919 Current visa holding businesses/investors. That actually says alot. If the average is 3000 new per year then there must be a huge percentage that leave within a few years if the accummulated total is just 17,900. It also begs the question why they feel the need to 'remove us" its not like E2 is anyway a significant percentage of the population.

[charliesmum]

The Event is tonight - See you all later

Zoe

[grumps]

see you there hope there are signs telling us where abouts it is in the hotel.

[Ed Tha Brit]

See ya' all there?

Look forward to meeting you all

Ed Tha Brit

[alanbcook]

Anyone know if there is any dress code for tonight?

[JulieC]

Anyone know if there is any dress code for tonight?

Someone asked on another forum and Zoe put to dress to represent yourselves as business owners. So presumably no shorts!

[InnVic]

Good Luck everyone - wish we could be there :-)

[Craney]

Will be there a little late tonight so will bring the brochures for the soccer academy raffle prize with me.

Thanks

Steve

[kirtida8]

We'll be there around 6 as we need to get the kids sorted before coming. Looking forward to meeting some of you in person for the first time.

[chris]

Someone asked on another forum and Zoe put to dress to represent yourselves as business owners. So presumably no shorts!

Lawncare lot will be in sweat stained tees and shorts, pool care in bleached attire, construction will be wearing hard hats and tool belts, restauranteurs will be dressed like Gordon Ramsey, Realtors by their BMW, Lexus or Mercedes key chains swinging from their designer outfits, the blinds people will have their white sticks, have a dejected look of I'm ready to 'hang' myself and the sex shop owners....well????????

[grumps]

what a fab turn out, Zoe should be very proud of what her team has achieved, the distance some people had traveled was unbelievable, 3 to 4 hours drive but the furthest had flown in from new Mexico, so there is no excuse for more local people not to turn up, this could be the start of the change but it can only be done if you get off your back side and get involved, the more numbers that they have the more clout you have,
there were 143 business represented with a total of over 48 million invested and an annual turnover of 55 million and 76 employees
all i can say is the people that complain and did not turn up stop complaining, this was your chance to get things going in your direction.

[kirtida8]

Well said Grumps. Its amazing what can be done if you just put your mind to it and persevere. What we now need to do is reach out to other E-2 countries and get them on board too - especially as they seem to have far greater numbers here according to the stats. Any ideas anyone?

[Ed Tha Brit]

What a great turnout last night,

Zoe & Nina and Bob you should be very proud of yourselves that, that amount of people turned up and from all over Florida not just Orlando.

Although we do not have children I thought, Nina's daughter put over her situation very clearly to everybody last night as Zoe explained where were the media?

my wife and I tried to put our situation together while on the two hour drive home.

There realy is some heart renching stories coming out at the moment from other business around the state of Florida

So what can we do bombard our Congress personell as Zoe says lets stick it to em!
with those figures I still dont know where all those Japanese are they are not in our neck of the woods?

Steve nice meeting ya last night glad you got some snap(food) I am upset I did not win your prize? Ha! Ha!

Nice meeting all you other folks and I will send you that info!

Have a nice day
Ed Tha Brit

[charliesmum]

Just to say thank you so much to everyone who came last night - there must have been 350-400 people there.

By the way Grumps you missed a figure out of the number of employees - it should read 776 employees - easy to do when you type quickly - those numbers caused a fantastic response.

So our next idea is that everyone e-mails or phones the Senators and their Member of Congress on November 5th and tell them the figures we came up with last night. Multiply that by 1,000 - as we reckon there are 150,000 E2 businesses in the US and the numbers are even more mind blowing.

There was so many people I didn't get a chance to talk to - maybe we need to do the same thing again and make it just a party so we can just enjoy each other's company!!!!

Zoe

[byjove]

Zoe are you posting a summery of events last night? I was disappointed we could not make it, but the call of business on a Friday night is just too strong! Saturdays is easier to close early as we do very little but Friday is our busiest day.

I will continue to post what I can and pass it along. I am glad so many made it.

[another1]

Well done to Zoe, Bob (come on you reds), Nina and all who made this event go so well...The turnout was amazing and just shows how passionate people are about this subject. The monitory figures were even more incredible. Now is the turn of everyone who attended to make some noise and keep this momentum going. November 5th (Bonfire night) is a great day to show that we mean business and want to be heard so lets give our local congress office something to think about. Good luck to all. :tu:
Ps: Disappointed with Sue's absence considering how this site has been set up. Sorry Sue but you should have been there :td:

[British American Chamber]

The event was absolutely phenomenal, the fact that it was standing room only was a testiment to Zoe's tireless efforts. Great job to Zoe and everyone who helped. Great job to all for making it a success! We look forward to seeing this movement strengthen and increase in momentum!

[davidmartin_uk]

Well done

Looks like it was a huge success.

The figures are huge on employment and investment. One massive plus to this argument would be getting the major power block E2 nationalities on board. Are the Japanese and Germans as dissatisfied with the unfairness as we are or are they treated completely differently? Be interesting to know if there are any German of Japanese forums complaining about the same stuff we do.

Dave

[British American Chamber]

We will check on that through their local Chambers, we will try to connect with them.

[bizboots]

Be interesting to know if there are any German of Japanese forums complaining about the same stuff we do.

Dave[/QUOTE]

I have tried to find German and Dutch forum's identical to this one , but was unsuccesful, anybody know of any??

I would like to see more E2 people from other countries to participate in future events.

I felt kinda lonely as I guess the only non-Brit there LOL:D

[bobinalbuquerque]

Now back "home" in the land of enchantment,New Mexico, the memories of a great evening will add new energy to our concerted fight. Well it truly was standing room only for some,Zoe's tireless commitment to the cause is a legend in the making,Suzie's site as a mechanism of communication so valued. The efforts and prizes from so many an indication of support....is the raffle finished yet?
However, the real push starts now with every family making themselves and their stories known to Congress and Senate aides.We have not one but two issues to champion ,the E2 bill and also the need to modify the Dream act to incorporate "documented non-americans".
A final point on numbers and language contained within the E2 bill,the content obviously needs amendments so as to offer more E2 businesses a valid pathway.The 3,000 cap is not realistic,employee numbers and projections need work, yet these very issues could be the "door-opener" with aides.The climate of change that has occurred since the bills origination three years ago is immense especially in the world of politics and small business.
Once again,"well done" Zoe in bringing together more E2 people than ever before.

[grumps]

we need to do it again, and as no press were there maybe we should look at a venue that if we spill over into the streets the press will have to take notice, i am not advocating being a trouble as such, but just by shear numbers we become such a problem that they will have to take notice and report that so many people turned up.

[chris]

Now back "home" in the land of enchantment,New Mexico, the memories of a great evening will add new energy to our concerted fight. Well it truly was standing room only for some,Zoe's tireless commitment to the cause is a legend in the making,Suzie's site as a mechanism of communication so valued. The efforts and prizes from so many an indication of support....is the raffle finished yet?
However, the real push starts now with every family making themselves and their stories known to Congress and Senate aides.We have not one but two issues to champion ,the E2 bill and also the need to modify the Dream act to incorporate "documented non-americans".
A final point on numbers and language contained within the E2 bill,the content obviously needs amendments so as to offer more E2 businesses a valid pathway.The 3,000 cap is not realistic,employee numbers and projections need work, yet these very issues could be the "door-opener" with aides.The climate of change that has occurred since the bills origination three years ago is immense especially in the world of politics and small business.
Once again,"well done" Zoe in bringing together more E2 people than ever before.

Yes it was a very full house on Friday and there was some useful information there. For me as a parent, the most provoking story was Nina's daughter (we will all have that as parents). I sincerely hope she is one who will go to Washington.
Last week this forum threw up some interesting numbers on E2 visas issued, yet the info in the Reform packs just gave blanket visa numbers. Against the backdrop of those E2 visa numbers, the 3000 cap is a pin prick. Even against just the level of investment, jobs created and business numbers quoted on Friday again the 3000 we should be demanding more.
For me one of the most telling elements about the immensity of our uphill journey for reform was the zero participation by politicians and the empty press table on Friday. Without the support of those two groups you are going nowhere fast.
Remember, remember the 5th of November should be the Day of action by E2'rs and we need to get the message to all to do something- BUT it should be all from the same songsheet.
This is just a suggestion and I don't know if the mechanics would work, but if all E2'rs did their responses to Senators and Congressman by email and CC'd the email to E2reform.org (if it has an email address?), then Zoe, Nina and Bob would be able to evaluate how many of those who said they would so someone, did it.

[British Redneck]

We came away from the event invigorated and knowing that we are not the only ones in this difficult situation. It was disappointing that politicians and press were so noticeable by their absence but from small acorns et., etc. I have sent the following to just about everyone in my address book including the Kissimmee/Osceola County Chamber of Commerce for circulation:

A personal appeal to all who know them from Allan and Maggie Collins


I thought that my days of political protests were over in 1960 when I was arrested for protesting about apartheid outside the S. African Embassy in London. The Magistrate bound me over for six months to keep the peace, fined me ten shillings and sixpence and sent me on my way.

Most of our friends know that Maggie and I have been here for about seventeen years on E-2 Business Visas. This means we have had to invest "substantial" funds into our own business, employ Americans, pay our taxes and be profitable. The visas have to be renewed, costing about $10K, every five years and we have absolutely zero assurance that our application will be approved. There is a sword of Damocles hanging over our heads at all times and who knows when we might be deported or refused re-entry into the USA. The E-2 Visa (temporary residency) cannot be converted to Green Card (permanent residency) status and much less to citizenship which is certainly what Maggie and I so desperately want. For fuller details please click: www.E2Reform.org

On Friday, October 23rd we attended an "E-2 Visa Reform Reception" - polite words for a protest rally! About 400 men, women and children attended representing 148 small businesses owned and managed by E-2 holders mostly located in and around Central Florida. We discovered that those 148 businesses have about $48 million invested in the USA. They employ 776 Americans and have a total annual turnover exceeding $55 million. These are real and sizeable numbers and contribute considerably to the economy. But at any time those small businesses could be closed down at the whim of an immigration bureaucrat and the owners deported, sometimes in handcuffs. We heard some harrowing tales of people to whom this had happened. We also heard from children who, at age 21, can be put on the next plane to their homeland, a country for which they have little affinity or knowledge.

We also learned that politicians and, more particularly their staff, have little or no idea about this injustice. Individuals who write letters in protest generally receive a form-letter thanking the writer for their support of immigration control with no mention of E-2 Visa reform. Individual letters make little difference and are generally consigned to the round filing cabinet under someone's desk. But a concerted effort with hundreds thousands of letters and emails arriving in a single week will be noticed and, perhaps, be acted upon.

So it was decided that November 5th (a significant British anniversary) would be the letter-writing day and I hope all y'all will join us in supporting this movement, please. Over the next few days I will be sending out a text to be cut and pasted. There will also be a complete list of every politician representing Florida in the Senate and House of Representatives in Washington D.C. with contact information. Apparently emails are the most effective and cost you nothing but a few minutes of your time.

We're here, we pay our way and we'd like to stay so please help.



Allan R. Collins
President - Accent Golf Cars, inc
ph: 407-847-3444
fax: 407-847-9080

So far the response has been overwhelmingly positive with dozens of pledges of support. Keep you fingers crossed!

[kirtida8]

What a brilliant letter Allan - maybe something that could be emulated by others? I know that I tried very hard to get a reporter from the Sentinel to come to the event, but as immigration reform is not on the political agenda at the moment - he was instead sent on another assignment. he did want to be informed of how the event went - so maybe we should all inundate him with emails? For anyone who wants to do this - here is his email address:
vramos@orlandosentinel.com
I have already done this, but if more of you follow - then maybe we can make the press start to take notice.

[charliesmum]

Great Idea

Zoe

[British Redneck]

By the way, has anyone got a link to the Guy Fawkes Night celebration at Osceola Heritage Park in Kissimmee? There were fliers out at the Reception but not good enough to scan and email to others. I've googled everywhere but can't find a thing.

[InnVic]

Maybe you should consider some publicity event to get the press interested - remember the fathers 4 justice protests in the UK ??- guys dressed as superheros that climbed up bridges. It would have to be a dignified action of course, maybe get a few folk dressed in suits and bowler hats chained to the gate at Disney!! Perhaps you could work with one of the British car groups - I know they have rallys all over Vermont in the summer - I bet they have them down there too. Hijack anything thats "best of british" and inundate the NATIONAL media - while there are many many E2 visa holders in Florida - it is a national problem so think beyond the Sentinel and think BIG, court the Associated Press (they can make or break a story!) write e-mail NY times, Washington Post, CNN etc...:-) Many of the journalists that have already done E2 type stories may be sympathetic (think of the french baker in NH that made national news...and that was just one person!!)

[British Redneck]

A friend of mine has taken the ball and run with it, click: http://theworldofhowey.wordpress.com/2009/10/26/e2-immigration-reform/

He tells me that the Huffington post may also be doing a piece. Out of small acorns...

[UKEBRITS]

By the way, has anyone got a link to the Guy Fawkes Night celebration at Osceola Heritage Park in Kissimmee? There were fliers out at the Reception but not good enough to scan and email to others. I've googled everywhere but can't find a thing.
when you all go to the Bonfire Night you should take placards protesting about the E2 situation and then have a mass 'chuck them on the bonfire' finale.........

[peter gold]

Did no one show from the ITV documentary team?

[Ed Tha Brit]

when you all go to the Bonfire Night you should take placards protesting about the E2 situation and then have a mass 'chuck them on the bonfire' finale.........

I don't think the British American Chamber of Commerce would allow this to happen?

I think the press and tv might go after all we have Cinco De mayo? they might like to show how we Brits Celebrate this event, long before the USA was born?

Have a nice Day
Ed Tha Brit:fit:

[British American Chamber]

the ITV team were there and our stance on this is that we take an economic focus on this and minimize the political/immigration focus. We would like to hold additional events at the Disney Entrepreneur Center in downtown Orlando, where our office is located and where we can draw more media attention. We truly believe that if we compile more numbers and indeed have a complete report on the economic impact (especially in Central Florida), we will gain attention. As long as the focus is political, it is too difficult to get politicians to attend but with an economic focus, the media will take notice. We will talk further with Zoe about this but give our full support to organizing of a single, very loud voice, backed by economics!
If any of you would like the Guy Fawkes flyer emailed to you, please email us at info@britishamericanchamberorlando.com and we would be happy to forward it.
Also, we are looking for a Brit with an icecream company to serve 99's at the event. If you know someone, please ask them to contact us. we are hoping to have cornish pasties, sausage rolls, scotch eggs, guiness glazed ribs, curry, fish and chips, toffee apples, treacle toffee, jacket potatoes, 99's. We need to make this a showcase of our food and culture so please feel free to contact us with any thoughts, or suggestions. There is no doubt that this will grow and our sponsors/ vendors will benefit each year. This is the beginning of the community coming together and showing Central Florida what what bring to the table!!

[byjove]

I know the most excellent fish n chips person!!!!

[byjove]

we also know where to get cornish pasties and sauage rolls a company called 4 and 20 another pair of E2 holders down on Swift and Clarke in Sarasota.

[British American Chamber]

We are not actually getting involved in the selling of the food. We are selling tables for $100 and allowing each vendor to sell whatever they want and keep the profits. This is helping to pay for the fireworks and we hope that everyone will make more than enough money to cover the fee and more importantly, have a great opportunity to showcase their business. if you know anyone who would be interested, please ask them to contact us. I am really seeking food vendors though as this is what will gain us exposure as a British cultural event.

[chris]

the ITV team were there and our stance on this is that we take an economic focus on this and minimize the political/immigration focus. We would like to hold additional events at the Disney Entrepreneur Center in downtown Orlando, where our office is located and where we can draw more media attention. We truly believe that if we compile more numbers and indeed have a complete report on the economic impact (especially in Central Florida), we will gain attention. As long as the focus is political, it is too difficult to get politicians to attend but with an economic focus, the media will take notice. We will talk further with Zoe about this but give our full support to organizing of a single, very loud voice, backed by economics!
If any of you would like the Guy Fawkes flyer emailed to you, please email us at info@britishamericanchamberorlando.com and we would be happy to forward it.
Also, we are looking for a Brit with an icecream company to serve 99's at the event. If you know someone, please ask them to contact us. we are hoping to have cornish pasties, sausage rolls, scotch eggs, guiness glazed ribs, curry, fish and chips, toffee apples, treacle toffee, jacket potatoes, 99's. We need to make this a showcase of our food and culture so please feel free to contact us with any thoughts, or suggestions. There is no doubt that this will grow and our sponsors/ vendors will benefit each year. This is the beginning of the community coming together and showing Central Florida what what bring to the table!!

I think it is good that at this late stage the BACC is getting involved, but at the risk of causing upset I get the feeling that the BACC is attempting to shift the focus away from the E2reform group and over to themselves. I would appreciate it if the BACC would expand further on how they see themselves being involved and contributing?

[British American Chamber]

We see ourselves being involved by helping to add an additional voice to E2 reform through our connections in the community and through the PR that we do. We have many resources available to help and are offering these to the entire E-2 community. We do not limit this only to those that are members and are only here to help create momentum. In my responses, i have been discussing Guy Fawkes as I have seen several questions pop us from other comments. Please note that we are Not for Profit and while we are certainly membership driven, we are not on here soliciting members. We are not looking to recreate the wheel but to join with E2 visa reform to help gain attention, almost as a mainstream marketing arm. As such, Zoe with E2 Visa reform will have a table at the Guy Fawkes event (and any other events that would help)and we (BACC) will focus on making the event gain media attention and hopefully providing opportunities to add strength to the voice of the movement. Our focus is and will remain Commerce and will not change to that of a political nature but we can certainly support E2 Visa reform by working together as a team. If we use the Hispanic Chamber as a guideline for how to create a voice of solidarity within the community, I'm sure that you will agree we all have our functions and can certainly be more successful working together as opposed to fragmented.

[chris]

Thank you for that prompt response. I have no questions whatsoever about the Guy Fawkes event. it is your event and nothing to with anyone else. The E2 reform is as it has been evolved by the people that make up E2 reform. I would not wish to see their efforts undermined or hijacked by anyone else.
It is good that you will offer the resources of your organization to Zoe, et al to push the E2 reform, which whilst based on an economic argument can only be resolved by a political will and change in the law. If you discount the politics you are having a conversation with yourself and will be for a long time.
The BACC as a non-profit, membership driven organization is only as strong as it's members who from what I see are professional business people. That is exactly what E2 visa holders are the 3 leading lights in E2 reform. On that we are on a level platform and no-one has a monopoly on skill or expertise.
I have no idea how Zoe, Nina and Bob organize themselves, but as he is in New Mexico I guess it is relatively informal. Perhaps as this campaign ramps up a gear, the time has come for a steering group is formed of officers and those who wish to serve as gofers.
The 3 have done a sterling job so far, but there is a limit what one person can do or even two or three. It is unfair, if we are all to benefit, that we leave it on their shoulders alone.
Anyone got any thoughts?? Zoe, Nina, Bob?????

[British American Chamber]

Hi Chris, we are hoping that everyone feels that Guy Fawkes belongs to the community. We are not really doing it for the glory (right now there isn't much glory anyway, just hard work), we are really hoping that everyone just really enjoys it and that it grows each year. So please claim it everyone!!

As far as E-2 visa reform, we don't want to be seen as a political body and assure all that we do not intend to claim credit. We are just looking to help where we can!

[chris]

Thanks for that.
We'll be going to the Bonfire Night.
On the E2 reform, it's all about everyone pulling together in the same direction with the same end in sight. That's all I care about.

[charliesmum]

Chris - On the Registration Forms we asked if you were interested in being part of a Core Group to move the Reform along. Many people said yes and I will be organising a Meet up for those soon to get more ideas going. I think we need to see the response from November 5th and the mailings first.

We will be at the BACC Event and hope to find more E2 Visa Holders who will also be interested in reform.

Please if you, or anyone else, are coming along stop and help us man the table for a while.

I didn't get much chance to talk to people last Friday - it was so hectic, so it will be great to chat - normally - to lots of people who are on the same page.

Zoe

[chris]

Zoe,
We never were able to fill in registration forms on Friday. It was sardine packers outing on the back table when we arrived and the meeting kicked off straight away. Yes I'd like to be considered for the core group.

[charliesmum]

That's great

Zoe

[InnVic]

I know we're hoping to be leaving soon because of the problems with E2 but if theres anything we can do to help then just say the word:-) Wishing you all huge success with your endeavors! I know that personally sometime in the future I'd love to hear that people I now consider friends finally find peace in the life they've chosen :-)

[British Redneck]

Some good, nay, EXCELLENT news! Following a meeting on an entirely different subject in Poinciana this evening, Mike Horner, Chairman of the Kissimmee/Osceola Chamber of Commerce buttonholed us and told us how much he supported E-2 Visa Reform. He went on to say that he will ensure that the word goes out in this week's e-newsletter to every Chamber member. WooHoo!

Mike then put on his State of Florida Representative hat and told us how much he supported E-2 Visa Reform and that, without reservation, he would do whatever he could to help. WooHoo! WOOHOO!!!

Mike is one of the good guys who I have counted as one of my mates for longer than either of us would care to remember. Now we have a very influencial person from both the economic and the political sides who is willing and able to help.

[charliesmum]

Well that's wonderful to have someone from the State of Florida on our side. I have been told many times that although they are not legislators and can't change laws, to have their support is a definite plus.

All this is really starting to come together.

Zoe

[British Redneck]

I'll be inviting him and his wife and son to join us at the Bonfire night and, if possible, introduce him to you, Zoe, so you can give him the sales spiel!

[NigelW]

Congratulations Zoe + team on a good event.

We all now need to work closer than ever together to try and change things but it will not be easy.

I definitely think we need to boost those numbers though as $55M turnover divided by 143 businesses (I appreciate some businesses didn't declare their turnover) is just $384,000 each and that really isn't much. One way to do this is to use the economic impact studies that CFVRMA commissioned a few years ago.

Both Osceola and Polk counties showed a combined economic impact of $3.6 billion to the local area and if we add in an estimated impact from Lake of $500 million then we are closer to $4.1 billion total economic impact in the local 4 corners area from just one industry segment.

When you add this in, all of a sudden you are talking a different game. I have copies of the economic reports as and when they are required. Maybe for the Washington trip?

[charliesmum]

Nigel, I have e-mailed you - yes I think we can include these figures along with the 120,000 E2 businesses we estimate are in the US. If you multiply Friday's average figures by this number of businesses we are definitely starting to be a force to be reckoned with.

I am trying to finish off the Newsletter with a recap of Friday Night and details of our' Day of Action' on November 5th.

I will e-mail it to anyone else who would like to see it - just pm me your e-mail address.

Zoe

[jay]

Good Luck with this, just thought I would bump this thread back to the top lol

[British Redneck]

The latest newsletter from e2visareform.org has been published. If you haven't received yours yet the sign up for it NOW. It's full of useful stuff and especially about the day-of-action on November 5th