moving to spain

[Kitty]

How easy is it to move to Spain, I live in England at the moment. Do I need any special visas?:confused:

[punky]

How easy is it to move to Spain, I live in England at the moment. Do I need any special visas?:confused:

Nope! As Spain and the UK are both EU countries, you can live and work in Spain without any visas or immigration.

However, there are certain things you will need to do. You normally have to register with the government locally for things such as tax.

[Kitty]

Not speaking spanish do you get sky TV in English? Or will i have to learn the lingo?

[JulieC]

I believe you can get Sky though what you get from the is it Astra??? satellite depends on the footprint ie people living in some areas get more than those in others. As for learning the lingo, well nit for TV and there are a lot of English speakers there ( and the way things are going, half the Brits currently in Florida will have ended up moving there!) but it has to be useful in shops or if you need to see a doctor or something

[paddojonski]

I have a friend who has a place in Spain and he gets about 20 English channels on Sky TV. They seem to do things very informally over there and it does not always seem completely above board but everyone accepts it. It is a very relaxed attitude. So yes, you can get plenty of english channels.

[casjon]

We have a house in Spain - just a holiday home, we don't live there.

There are about 20 TV channels including ITV, SKY1 and some SKY movie channels.

A great way to learn to speak Spanish is by watching Spanish TV - its how I learned. Plus I always make the effort to speak Spanish even when the person I am speaking to can speak english.

There are a lot of opportunities out there for people with the right get up and go but the language is a barrier. Unless you are prepared to learn to speak Spanish then you should not go over and expect to be able to get a well paid job. I would also recommend anyone who is going over there to conduct business to atleast have a basic working knowledge of the language.

All that said it is a beautiful country with many benefits to offer. The weather of course is the obvious one, but the food is FRESH and naturally grown - so much healthier than ours. The way of life is far more relaxed and the outdoor lifestyle is more social and sociable than in the UK.

We have just come back from a long weekend there and spent the whole time out lunching or dining with friends. It is the norm over there.

Please let me know if I can help with any info on Spain - I will be more than happy to help.

All the best
Caroline

[d cass]

Hi if you want to live in spain you need to go to the local police station to get a resedency permit which you can fill in thear & then one of the big plus points is the property tax is much cheaper in spain than in florida
best of luck
dave

[Kitty]

Thanks for all the advice,

kind regards Kitty

[Kriz1]

I don't think I could be happy living in a country if I could not speak the lingo...reading and understanding would be a start....

[JulieC]

I think it depends where you are, there are areas f Spain which have a lot of expats where you can get by without much Spanish and others where you would need it more. There are areas of Florida where I think I dont speak the lingo in point of fact!!

[Kriz1]

I feel very strongly about people learning English when moving to the USA or England...I don't think I could move anywhere without learning the lingo...

[JulieC]

Well the kids do of course, whether here legally or illegally they all attend US school. But some of the adults seem to find it hard to learn the language, I had a cleaner here 20 years who was still scarcely comprehensible. I think the fact that they all live together in areas doesnt help, I am sure in Miami you could get along on a day to day basis without speaking any English at all. The same applies to some asian communities in the UK of course.

[Carol]

I believe you can get Sky though what you get from the is it Astra??? satellite depends on the footprint ie people living in some areas get more than those in others. As for learning the lingo, well nit for TV and there are a lot of English speakers there ( and the way things are going, half the Brits currently in Florida will have ended up moving there!) but it has to be useful in shops or if you need to see a doctor or something

Ha Ha How true !!!! How I wish I had just learn't the Lingo and moved to Spain instead of this Nightmare !!!

[Carol]

I think it depends where you are, there are areas f Spain which have a lot of expats where you can get by without much Spanish and others where you would need it more. There are areas of Florida where I think I dont speak the lingo in point of fact!!

Hi Julie
Which area's would you recommend that are mainly british ?
Thank you carol

[Carol]

Hi Kitty
I have just found a site that I thought you might like
www.SpainExpat.com
Good luck
Carol
P.S I live in Florida, but I am hoping to move to Spain soon

[JulieC]

Loads of brits in Murcia and in the Costa del Sol particularly around the Malaga/Marbella area. Be careful, lots of TV programmes lately on people in Spain being caught in building scams, ie builder did not get planning permission so the house has to be torn down, instances of town halls grabbing your land to build on with no compensation and then charging you to put on the services and problems with falling house prices and the people currently living there being unable to sell their homes, some on the market for three years! The latter could play into your hands initially as you will be able to pick up a cheap property as long as it eventually gets better.
I am in Portugal and I get Euro Weekly which is a newspaper for both the Algarve and Southern Spain and i must say the Algarve seems easier to live in of the two for expats. Having said that never believe it is as cheap to live in S Europe as people say, unless you live on cheap wine, oranges and olives and it is hard to either find jobs or start businesses without a full command of the language. I am looking to move back to Florida!!

[Carol]

Loads of brits in Murcia and in the Costa del Sol particularly around the Malaga/Marbella area. Be careful, lots of TV programmes lately on people in Spain being caught in building scams, ie builder did not get planning permission so the house has to be torn down, instances of town halls grabbing your land to build on with no compensation and then charging you to put on the services and problems with falling house prices and the people currently living there being unable to sell their homes, some on the market for three years! The latter could play into your hands initially as you will be able to pick up a cheap property as long as it eventually gets better.
I am in Portugal and I get Euro Weekly which is a newspaper for both the Algarve and Southern Spain and i must say the Algarve seems easier to live in of the two for expats. Having said that never believe it is as cheap to live in S Europe as people say, unless you live on cheap wine, oranges and olives and it is hard to either find jobs or start businesses without a full command of the language. I am looking to move back to Florida!!

Hi Julie
Thanks for your advise I have to move I have been in appeal with our visas for the last year, and don't want to go back to the UK, but I have had enough of bleeding money into the USA legal system, and have run out I !!! So I will be renting in Spain we are at the moment trying to learn the language, I realise that Spain is not Cheap !! but where is? and I am sure it is still better than the UK !!
Why are you looking to move back to USA? and how long is it since you lived here ?
Good luck with your move
Carol

[JulieC]

We also went into appeal last year, appeal on 1-140 was denied, L1 appeal still in, nearly a year now and nothing. We left last December and have been in Portugal pretty much since. We also didnt want to go back to the UK. My son is still in the US on F1 finishing his degree and I miss him, also the lifestyle, my friends and the ease of being able to run a business. We have looked long and hard for decent businesses in Portugal and they run hand to mouth, and it is very difficult without a Portuguese partner who knows the language and the way round the extensive bureaucracy, and after the L1 we dont really want another partner. Most people here are retired and have incomes coming in from elsewhere, either pensions or investments or businesses still running in the UK or whatever, I think that may be more the case in Portugal than in Spain, I was mugged there years ago and my bag taken and it put me off going there so we didnt really look as seriously into it.

[Carol]

We also went into appeal last year, appeal on 1-140 was denied, L1 appeal still in, nearly a year now and nothing. We left last December and have been in Portugal pretty much since. We also didnt want to go back to the UK. My son is still in the US on F1 finishing his degree and I miss him, also the lifestyle, my friends and the ease of being able to run a business. We have looked long and hard for decent businesses in Portugal and they run hand to mouth, and it is very difficult without a Portuguese partner who knows the language and the way round the extensive bureaucracy, and after the L1 we dont really want another partner. Most people here are retired and have incomes coming in from elsewhere, either pensions or investments or businesses still running in the UK or whatever, I think that may be more the case in Portugal than in Spain, I was mugged there years ago and my bag taken and it put me off going there so we didnt really look as seriously into it.

Hi Julie
L-1 appeals are taking about 14mths to process (according to Senators Office) I spoke with my attorney a few weeks ago and he told me they have refused every L-1 appeal in the last twelve months.
I have had a complete nightmare since we arrived here, we have been here two years, and I have run out of money, I can't afford to fight it anymore. My husband has been arrested (mistaken ID, I attached our story on to American dream), then it has been one thing after another, (I won't go into it all)
I am fed up being land locked I have two older children who live in the UK, and I miss them, at least in Spain I will be able to see my children, I have friends here that I will miss, but I like to travel and America can't understand why anyone would want to visit Eygpt, Sri Lanka, Dubai (I was questioned on entry because I had been to these countries) I find most American's small minded !! they think the world ends at American borders (before anyone kicks off I said most not all !!!!) America is a great country but I don't think it is for us I am sick and tired of having to fight, I AM NOT A CRIMINAL just a hard working individual who wants a better life for myself and my family !!!
Thank you for your information, and Good luck with your appeal
Carol

[anniefromessex]

Carol,

Your post to Julie (above) makes sooo much sense. I agree with you every step of the way and I hope that if you decide to go to Spain it works out for you. I too am fed up with the fight - even though we have Green Cards and life should be hunky dory for us now, believe you me it isn't because of what they have done to us in the past. My husband loved this country - had done since we first visited in 1989 and bought our first home here, you couldn't say a bad thing against it. Since 1989 he hankered to live and work out here and to a degree our life was on hold back in England because everything was about "when we move to America"- I am sure a lot of you women on here know where I am coming from - but because of their total paranoia since 9/11 and the fact that our family has been torn apart, he actually hates the word "hate" but he hates what this country (or Immigration) has done to us. His affinity to this country has been so diminished and although he is not a violent man, when Immigration in the Bahamas refused my son entry and we said what about our grandson back in America and they turned round and said he would have to make his own way back to England, I think if he had had a weapon on him he would have committed murder. I know that may sound extreme to some, but that is how they get you in the end. We both still have nightmares about that day and believe you me it doesn't get any easier. If somebody could tell me the reasons why they are like they are then perhaps I could understand it or at least have some empathy, but I just cannot understand their heavy handed attitude to us - we only give, never take!!

Anyway Carol, hope whatever you decide to do works out for you, perhaps you will at least feel "free"!!!

Love Anniexxx

[JulieC]

We knew about the situation with the appeals so are not relying on it, if we got it today the few months remaining on the visa wouldnt be enough to get through another renewal anyway. Going down a totally different route now.

We felt the same as you do about the US and about leaving this time last year, ask Susie!! I do think our decision to try to get back is partly because our son is still there, we miss him, and cannot afford to be retired in Europe or just pin money earners as most Brits here are in view of the huge amounts of fees we now have to pay for him as an international student, but I am damned if he will not finish the qualification he started, after all we took him there in the first place.

Look at Portugal, it is a nice place and perhaps softer than Spain, and none of the housing scams exist here. A lot really does depend on how you are going to earn a living. The locals have the holiday trade sewn up and it is only a three month season anyway. If you are into cooking etc, there are bars and restaurants for sale, that is the main form of business for Brits here. Good luck to you. I am not trying to put you off, just trying to give some useful information, it is always good to see things from the other side.

PS Be carefu if shipping stuff back, easier to ship it back to the UK and then by road out to Europe, we had all sorts of hassles as we shipped direct and America isnt in the EEC. Consult the embassy website for the country you are going to, so if Spain the Spanish embassy in Washington, we didnt and relied on our shipping company and there was an important piece of paper you needed to get BEFORE leaving the US from the embassy that customs here asked for. We had to get it retrospectively and ended up paying 2000 euros in fines and demurrage at Portuguese customs. Our shipping contract had a clause in that said the punter had to check with individual embassies in tiny print!

[Carol]

Carol,

Your post to Julie (above) makes sooo much sense. I agree with you every step of the way and I hope that if you decide to go to Spain it works out for you. I too am fed up with the fight - even though we have Green Cards and life should be hunky dory for us now, believe you me it isn't because of what they have done to us in the past. My husband loved this country - had done since we first visited in 1989 and bought our first home here, you couldn't say a bad thing against it. Since 1989 he hankered to live and work out here and to a degree our life was on hold back in England because everything was about "when we move to America"- I am sure a lot of you women on here know where I am coming from - but because of their total paranoia since 9/11 and the fact that our family has been torn apart, he actually hates the word "hate" but he hates what this country (or Immigration) has done to us. His affinity to this country has been so diminished and although he is not a violent man, when Immigration in the Bahamas refused my son entry and we said what about our grandson back in America and they turned round and said he would have to make his own way back to England, I think if he had had a weapon on him he would have committed murder. I know that may sound extreme to some, but that is how they get you in the end. We both still have nightmares about that day and believe you me it doesn't get any easier. If somebody could tell me the reasons why they are like they are then perhaps I could understand it or at least have some empathy, but I just cannot understand their heavy handed attitude to us - we only give, never take!!

Anyway Carol, hope whatever you decide to do works out for you, perhaps you will at least feel "free"!!!

Love Anniexxx

Hi Annie
Thank you xx I think immigration pick on easy targets !! and the fact that they are answerable to on one doesn't help !!! well they do have an ombusman but you try complaining !!!they all stick together I have never known anything so corrupt. Good luck with your future
Carol

[Carol]

We knew about the situation with the appeals so are not relying on it, if we got it today the few months remaining on the visa wouldnt be enough to get through another renewal anyway. Going down a totally different route now.

We felt the same as you do about the US and about leaving this time last year, ask Susie!! I do think our decision to try to get back is partly because our son is still there, we miss him, and cannot afford to be retired in Europe or just pin money earners as most Brits here are in view of the huge amounts of fees we now have to pay for him as an international student, but I am damned if he will not finish the qualification he started, after all we took him there in the first place.

Look at Portugal, it is a nice place and perhaps softer than Spain, and none of the housing scams exist here. A lot really does depend on how you are going to earn a living. The locals have the holiday trade sewn up and it is only a three month season anyway. If you are into cooking etc, there are bars and restaurants for sale, that is the main form of business for Brits here. Good luck to you. I am not trying to put you off, just trying to give some useful information, it is always good to see things from the other side.

PS Be carefu if shipping stuff back, easier to ship it back to the UK and then by road out to Europe, we had all sorts of hassles as we shipped direct and America isnt in the EEC. Consult the embassy website for the country you are going to, so if Spain the Spanish embassy in Washington, we didnt and relied on our shipping company and there was an important piece of paper you needed to get BEFORE leaving the US from the embassy that customs here asked for. We had to get it retrospectively and ended up paying 2000 euros in fines and demurrage at Portuguese customs. Our shipping contract had a clause in that said the punter had to check with individual embassies in tiny print!

Hi Julie
Me and my Husband are both Sales people, I have kitchen showroom but I am not sure what we will do in Spain. I have looked into it and there are loads of Cabinet showrooms around the Malaga area, which is why we looked there, but to be fair that is as far as I have got with it !!!!!!!!!!!
I won't be shipping anything just my Dog !!! so I haven't got that hassle.
I hope you manage to sort your visas, good luck
Carol xx

[ettena]

Hi, having read your posts it feels me with some enthusiam. We all seem to have had the same disasters with Visas and are looking for interesting alternatives.
I am only just starting down the road of looking at Spain or portugal as an alternative to the uk rat race.
My question to you gals is how are you getting on?

Also does anyone know of any Good removal companies that will move from USA to UK all of your worldly possessions! I am not able to return 'home' to pack them so will need to rely on getting shipped without me being there!

I would really appreciate some guidance!

xx:angel:

[SHEILA 13]

Hi,I dont know personally of a removal Co.but I am sure someone will.
We lived in Spain before moving out here.
Good Luck with the move.
Sheila

[britcan]

Well I am sure that Annie will update you in time, but she has gone back to the UK to regroup...my advice would be to go to Spain and forget the USA.

[tracifrost]

Hi if you want to live in spain you need to go to the local police station to get a resedency permit which you can fill in thear & then best of luck
dave

ooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhh Wouldnt that be lovely if that was all you needed to do once you arrived in the U.S.

[jay]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/global/main.jhtml;jsessionid=UKZTB4MACU3Z1QFIQMFSFFOAVCBQ 0IV0?xml=/global/2008/01/19/wexpat119.xml

[InnVic]

Interesting jay.......as I suspected the grass is not always greener.....

[Kriz1]

Very true Innvic....glad I never moved to get away from anything....

[ettena]

Hi problem with us brits is because of our housing booms and the value of bricks and mortar I seriously think that we have created these catastrophes everywhere by creating these housing booms. Also problem is that we all believe we can get something for nothing. Someone tells us our minature home in the uk with no garden 20 floors up is worth 200 gbps, we then try and buy 3 acres a pool and 6 bedrooms for about 50 fifty of those lovely pounds!!! we are greedy!! aren't we
I don't ever believe the grass is greener, just different!!!

[Kriz1]

Brit homes maybe small...but a lot stand the test of time...unlike US homes...I live in the historical distract and my place was built in 1972...I mean were people even alive back then....:rofl: :rofl:

[Carol]

Hi
Well I ended up in Dubai not Spain, but I will say to anyone looking to move here you need a job to come to, but other than that, there is no hassle with visa's (you get it on the way in then you can drive across border,1 hr away to renew every 60days till your proper visa comes through usually within 3 months) schools are good (no drugs, alcohol or Gun probs in schools), shopping is great, we have 0 crime and weather is hot (dry heat unlike Florida) life here is a lot less stressful than in the USA.
Good luck to you all
Carol xxxx

[InnVic]

Hi
Well I ended up in Dubai not Spain, but I will say to anyone looking to move here you need a job to come to, but other than that, there is no hassle with visa's (you get it on the way in then you can drive across border,1 hr away to renew every 60days till your proper visa comes through usually within 3 months) schools are good (no drugs, alcohol or Gun probs in schools), shopping is great, we have 0 crime and weather is hot (dry heat unlike Florida) life here is a lot less stressful than in the USA.
Good luck to you all
Carol xxxx

only the public stonings for adultery to worry about then ;)

[Kriz1]

I'm too old now to worry about that one Innvic...:rofl:

[anniefromessex]

I think the article in the Telegraph is really about people who have houses built "off development". A friend of mine bought a property over there on the same sort of sub division that is over in Florida and I cannot really see the local government tearing down their homes. I suppose you can liken it to buying a piece of land in a rural area in Florida, building a home and then the local authority finding something wrong with it and tearing it down. There are always horror stories but you have to pick the bones out of them. Nowhere is utopia and unless we remember that there are going to be a lot of disillusioned people be it in America, Canada, Australia, N.Z or the UK which is definitely not Utopia but home to us for now!!!

Love Anniexxx

[anniefromessex]

Carol, glad you are feeling de-stressed in Dubai and hope things work out well for you - any chance of a holiday, ha ha!!!

Love Anniexxx

[InnVic]

I'm too old now to worry about that one Innvic...:rofl:

Kriz - your'e not too old - you're the same age as me - never say never Johnny Depp could come up the the Cape gagging for it and then what would you do ;)

[chris]

It matters not where you buy a house these days, it's buyer beware. Whilst these problems have been highlighted in Spain, consider the problems for all those who bought 'in good faith' their new homes near Odyssey middle school Orlando and now find they are sitting on an ex bombing range!
On another topic, I have a question for Carol in Dubai. Do ALL the women (including foreigners) have to respect the muslim laws regarding what women can and can't do in public? I know muslim women have to wear the veils in public and they are not allowed to drive cars and I believe they can't go out say drinking in bars on their own. Does that apply to you?

[SarahG]

I'm also interested in Chris's off topic question to Carol about ALL women in Dubai. Its a country I have been interested in but am not sure I could cope with not being allowed to drive etc.

[Kriz1]

Kriz - your'e not too old - you're the same age as me - never say never Johnny Depp could come up the the Cape gagging for it and then what would you do ;)

Well I would just have to give in....poor lad...how could he not be gagging for beauty like what I have got....:rofl: :rofl:

[JulieC]

HI Ettena
I was surprised to see my old posts on Portugal come up! For me it is all change. We filed for E2 in Lisbon and were back in the US on E2 again a year after we left for Portugal. Why? Many reasons. An inability to find work or a role was the main one. Missing our son who was still here was another. And after Orlando the pace of life was just too slow.
Carol, glad to hear you are enjoying Dubai. We have thought of it, but thought it may be just too hot in the summer! Panama is an interesting one. That is in the dollar zone and we are told has many of the US stores and restaurants and an American style infrastructure. It is easy to move there providing you have $200,000 to invest and it can be in property. Think we may look at that one if we have to leave at the end of this visa.

[Deborah]

I'm also very interested to hear from Carol on life in Dubai. Is it expensive to live there, I know housing costs can be quite high? I'm looking forward to reading Carol's posts.

[SHEILA 13]

If Carol has time perhaps she can start a new thread on moving to Dubai ???
Hope all is well with you.
Take Care
Sheila

[byjove]

Carol, it would be of great interest to a few of us on how you came to be in Dubai, what process you went through, money investments, your dog's move etc.......

I hope you can give us a full rundown. And best of luck you deserve it.

[lorraine]

Hi everyone, Carol has no internet at the moment. You cant get internet put on till you have a visa, which they are waiting for.

Moving the dog to Dubai was an expensive, drawn out process.

I am sure Carol will update you all soon. I can only say that she would rather be here than there.

The schools are all private and she has now found a good school for her son.

Kind regards Lorraine

[byjove]

thanx lorraine for the update, I do hope things are going well for Carol though!

[lorraine]

thanx lorraine for the update, I do hope things are going well for Carol though!


Thanks I will pass it on... I wish she was back here though and so does she......... Dubai will not be the place she stays it just a stepping stone.x

[Susie]

Thanks I will pass it on... I wish she was back here though and so does she......... Dubai will not be the place she stays it just a stepping stone.x

Please also pass on my best wishes too. I do hope she will be able to continue updating us on her new life and how she is getting on

[chris]

Watched an interesting program on Dubai on 60 minutes on Sunday.
Checked out a couple of things on living in Dubai. Unless you are in business within one of the free trade zones, your business has to be 51% owned by a Dubai national. That killed that idea!

[JulieC]

The bit about no internet without a visa put me off! Sounds like Portugal where it took us over a month to get it. I looked at it too and Dubai is a place to retire I would say.

[Kriz1]

Have you thought about writing a bit about living in Portugal Julie...
Did you learn the lingo...most of the people who live on Cape come from there...it is our second language...the Portuguese have been in the area for hundreds of years...

[JulieC]

Only just saw this. Learned a little Portuguese. Spoken Portuguese is a hard language, sounds more like Russian than French or Soanish. And isnt pronounced like it looks. Written I picked up quite a bit. In the Algarve a lot of people speak some English, especially the younger ones.

Big thing about Portugal is living with bureacracy. If you think it is bureacratic in the US, you aint seen nothing. Everything has to be in writing signed in triplicate, stamped in triplicate and then filed in dusty filing cabinets in triplicate. The day we decided to come back to the US was the day I heard a German guy had jumped off a cliff having been trying for four years to get a license to open a restaurant! Other than that it is a different lifestyle, many of the creature comforts we are used to here were hard to get hold of there, icemakers, dishwashers, even tumble dryers ( I had a whirley thing in the back yard!!). The hot water for our baths and showers was heated by a propane tank which looked like a bigger version of the one we run BBQs off here, never had a nice hot bath or shower in months!! Internet had limits on downloads, I was forever being charged more just for going on my forums, no ebay, no online shopping, no mail order as no one would ever send to Portugal. And in the winter everything was shut up and in the summer you couldnt move for tourists. Food was horrible too, dont talk to me about salted fish, and I began to look like sardine. No good steak anywhere, even the Brazilian top quality was hard as hell. As to clothes. either cheapo ethnic market or designer, naught in between.
On the pro side. Weather wasnt bad, better than the UK in the winter and hot in the summer. The scenery is very pretty, particularly the beaches with proper cliffs, not just flat. Cheap wine and beer and cheap oranges, cheap olives, salad with oil and vinegar rather than ranch. Not much else really. Oh and I loved their American embassy!

[Kriz1]

Portuguese is the Cape's second language ...has been for hundreds of years...not not we have it printed in all our supermarkets etc...the Portuguese speak English very well..they run most of the fishing boats...most of the people we became friendly with when we moved here were Portuguese a very friendly people...

[anniefromessex]

Perhaps it is just easier to move back to the UK, ha ha!!

Love Anniexxx

[Callie]

Or not leave in the 1st place :D

[Kriz1]

I've got the moving bug again...watching to many home buying TV shows...begaining to think I live in the wrong place...

[JulieC]

I think had I gone back to the UK I would still have been there. The lure of a foreign embassy was just too much so we didnt really try very hard to settle.

[wantedtobe]

We live in Spain but were it possible to get a permanant visa we would be in the USA.I think anyone moving from there would get a culture shock when they arrived in spain.

Everything is available but lots of things are more expensive than the UK! Add the problems with illegal building and corruption. It costs me 40 euros a month for internet and 40 GBP for SKYTV. There is also a lot more anti-Brit feeling than there used to be.

Winters are much colder than you think too (thats why we go to Florida:) )

Spent 4 days in Dubai and it was not for me. Have thought about the caribbean but not sure.

[peter gold]

Look at Panama, Mazalan Mexico and Costa Rica now popular with ex pat Yanks.

[Kriz1]

I've been looking South of the border Pete...

[peter gold]

Mazalan then

[Kriz1]

It does look nice..
I'm not used to rain...and its been raining here for days...you forget how depressing rain is...

[peter gold]

I will never forget remember I hail from Manchester

[JulieC]

I agree about Spain, we lived near the border and used to go over quite often, cheaper than Portugal for many things though. Have only been to Mexico once and not keen, Panama is interesting though, they have a great retirement program.