Allan Oakley
04-25-2006, 01:39 AM
Prior to 1996 if you were a non resident - villa owner you could easily ask for and recieved a SS number by arguing you wanted to pay income taxes on your profits.It said " not valid for employment" but all the same was a legitimate number. I recently heard that ANYONE who has paid in to Social Security for 10 years could apply for a retirement pension at 65 years of age.Then by accident I met a Brit who has been here 19 years, owns his own business ,applied for and is recieving his old age pension.
How was that possible ?
Felt inquisitive so I called the Social Security department. While on hold I researched their website and found this :
Can a non-citizen receive Social Security benefits?
Question
Can a non-citizen receive Social Security benefits?
Answer
Public Law 104-193, the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996, permits payment of Social Security benefits to noncitizens living in the United States (U.S.) only if they are lawfully present in this country. The law requires that anyone living in the U.S. who applies for Social Security benefits on or after December 1, 1996, must provide evidence that he or she is a U.S. citizen or U.S. national, or an alien lawfully present in the U.S. as determined by the Attorney General.This law does not affect:· Social Security benefits for people residing outside the U.S.; · Social Security benefits for people who applied before December 1, 1996; or · Entitlement to the lump sum death payment.For more information, you may call our toll-free number, 1-800-772-1213. Our representatives there will be glad to help you.If you live outside the U.S., see http://www.socialsecurity.gov/foreign/ for information on services in other countries. If you reside in the United States you can apply for benefits online at http://www.socialsecurity.gov/applyforbenefits. You can find more information about whether you can receive benefits abroad as a non-U.S. citizen in the booklet, Your Payments While You Are Outside the United States (SSA Publication No. 05-10137) at http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/10137.html.
Armed with this information I asked for a specialist who deals with immigration and social security. She admitted that prior to 1996 anyone who had a profit generating investment asked for and received a SS number. Between then and about 2002 the Federal government started insisting that foreigners who became US business buyers apply for ITIN numbers. I asked her whether there was the possibility that foreigners who came here on E-2 visas before 1996 and had SS numbers marked " not valid for employment" could actually be collecting SS benefits? She said that was not possible but I pointed out the act says that SS benefits can be paid to :
Public Law 104-193, the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996, permits payment of Social Security benefits to noncitizens living in the United States (U.S.) only if they are lawfully present in this country. The law requires that anyone living in the U.S. who applies for Social Security benefits on or after December 1, 1996, must provide evidence that he or she is a U.S. citizen or U.S. national, or an alien lawfully present in the U.S. as determined by the Attorney General.
She paused and then said I may be right. Foreign business owners with older SS cards may in fact be able to collect SS benefits. She said I was the first one to ever point that out and she has been working for SS for 19 years.
Legal or moral ? Who knows but I'd bet I discovered a flaw in the SS act that allows non USA residents to collect SS benefits as they are here legally. In this case as long as they maintain their E-2 visa it looks like they can collect the pension. Only if they were lucky enough to get a SS number back in the early to mid 1990's.
I’d love to have an actual legal opinion on this one. I/m not sure SS staff are that aware of this flaw in their set up. I sent off my request to a finacial investment expert in Altamonte Springs but if this is the case there is hope for long time E-2 Visa holders.
How was that possible ?
Felt inquisitive so I called the Social Security department. While on hold I researched their website and found this :
Can a non-citizen receive Social Security benefits?
Question
Can a non-citizen receive Social Security benefits?
Answer
Public Law 104-193, the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996, permits payment of Social Security benefits to noncitizens living in the United States (U.S.) only if they are lawfully present in this country. The law requires that anyone living in the U.S. who applies for Social Security benefits on or after December 1, 1996, must provide evidence that he or she is a U.S. citizen or U.S. national, or an alien lawfully present in the U.S. as determined by the Attorney General.This law does not affect:· Social Security benefits for people residing outside the U.S.; · Social Security benefits for people who applied before December 1, 1996; or · Entitlement to the lump sum death payment.For more information, you may call our toll-free number, 1-800-772-1213. Our representatives there will be glad to help you.If you live outside the U.S., see http://www.socialsecurity.gov/foreign/ for information on services in other countries. If you reside in the United States you can apply for benefits online at http://www.socialsecurity.gov/applyforbenefits. You can find more information about whether you can receive benefits abroad as a non-U.S. citizen in the booklet, Your Payments While You Are Outside the United States (SSA Publication No. 05-10137) at http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/10137.html.
Armed with this information I asked for a specialist who deals with immigration and social security. She admitted that prior to 1996 anyone who had a profit generating investment asked for and received a SS number. Between then and about 2002 the Federal government started insisting that foreigners who became US business buyers apply for ITIN numbers. I asked her whether there was the possibility that foreigners who came here on E-2 visas before 1996 and had SS numbers marked " not valid for employment" could actually be collecting SS benefits? She said that was not possible but I pointed out the act says that SS benefits can be paid to :
Public Law 104-193, the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996, permits payment of Social Security benefits to noncitizens living in the United States (U.S.) only if they are lawfully present in this country. The law requires that anyone living in the U.S. who applies for Social Security benefits on or after December 1, 1996, must provide evidence that he or she is a U.S. citizen or U.S. national, or an alien lawfully present in the U.S. as determined by the Attorney General.
She paused and then said I may be right. Foreign business owners with older SS cards may in fact be able to collect SS benefits. She said I was the first one to ever point that out and she has been working for SS for 19 years.
Legal or moral ? Who knows but I'd bet I discovered a flaw in the SS act that allows non USA residents to collect SS benefits as they are here legally. In this case as long as they maintain their E-2 visa it looks like they can collect the pension. Only if they were lucky enough to get a SS number back in the early to mid 1990's.
I’d love to have an actual legal opinion on this one. I/m not sure SS staff are that aware of this flaw in their set up. I sent off my request to a finacial investment expert in Altamonte Springs but if this is the case there is hope for long time E-2 Visa holders.