101 migrants make it to a beach in Florida.

[floridapete]

If you think you have problems today spare a thought for the 102 people who set out in small boats from Haiti three weeks ago to try to make it to the 'safety' of Florida for a new life away from the political regimes, the poverty and the oppression of their own country.

101 of them made it to the beach at Hollywood near Miami yesterday - unfortunately one of them drowned as he fell overboard just off shore.

Hungry, thirsty, some not having eaten for ten days, the scared and scarred survivors are being tended to by the medical authorities in Dade County - before possibly being repatriated all the way back to where they came from ! How different it would have been if they had come from Cuba (in which case having made it to the beach they would have been let in) - but Haitians - hell no ! That discriminatory policy stinks !

Yes, these people would have been illegal immigrants, they didn't make an 'investment' or have any kind of a visa - but they were risking their very lives for that 'better life' which is all that you all seek.

If you have problems with renewals, visas, I/94's or whatever today thank your lucky stars that at least you still have your lives and you didn't have to risk your lives, and maybe your childrens too, to make it to the USA.

If you are still in the UK today awaiting your visa processing take comfort from the fact that you are not, at least, fleeing oppression, hunger, political turmoil or the threat of being murdered !

Many other people in this world are not so lucky !

See:http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/state/sfl-328migrantlanding,0,985735.story?coll=orl-home-headlines

There is also a video clip to view.

[Bobby]

Wonderful!

...... ask them to join the forum!


.....oh wait a minute. What they were doing was totally illegal ...and of course crazy, and without much thought at all.

How condescending of you to put us legal immigrants alongside them and their hardships. How very dare you!

The hard work, turmoil and monetary investment I put into legally migrating to the US has been far greater than jumping on a fleeing boat. I'm sure there are a lot of members in the same boat.

Bobby

[chris]

The things these Spring Breakers get up to these days!!!

Seriously, I find it disturbing that folks back in the UK make concerned comment about people from one foreign country trying to enter another foreign country, yet stay silent on 15 of their own UK citizens held hostage in Iran. A country which oppresses, is in political turmoil and has many people under the threat of murder. A country which is exporting much of its ideology to the UK.

[lorraine]

I can see two side here I think Peter posted this as it is to do with Florida, and I must say I watched the video and thought it was extremely sad and my heart does go out to these poor people.. I also agree with Bobby that us brits coming here is totally different and no matter what ,our stories are just as bad .Dustin story is very very sad and he was almost broken by what happened to him and in his world when he found out what happened I dont think he would be thanking his lucky stars. I also want to say Chris I read about the UK citizens in Iran and that is terrible, but I suppose it doesnt have much to do with our Forum and thats why person in question wouldnt have put that on here. Take care kind regards to all and I hope the poor Haitians get all the medical help and care they need.

[Kriz1]

If they are leaving because of political regimes...why are they being sent back...surely they get political asyum...

[SHEILA 13]

It is very sad and disturbing to see what has happened to these people,and yes we dont have to live and fear for our lives enough to get on a boat and just hope and pray that we get to our destination safely.
But we do have the worries of the buisness and visa renewals etc etc and it can and has split families apart,before anyone says we have a choice yes we do and all we want is a better life too !!!!!!

[Bobby]

The things these Spring Breakers get up to these days!!!

Seriously, I find it disturbing that folks back in the UK make concerned comment about people from one foreign country trying to enter another foreign country, yet stay silent on 15 of their own UK citizens held hostage in Iran. A country which oppresses, is in political turmoil and has many people under the threat of murder. A country which is exporting much of its ideology to the UK.

Perhaps this is for another thread, but my thoughts are with these men every day, and I watch BBC news in anticipation of the next report.

I WAS that armed boarding party in the Gulf in the 90's. Although we rapid rope descended from an aircraft onto suspected smuggling vessels. It's not an easy job, and when you are met with hostility in a foreign language, what little Arabic we were taught didn't make for peace making negotiations.
I remember it well. We were taught "Stop, or I'll shoot" which served as our warning, in line with our rules of engagement, and I presume taken from the Geneva convention.

Now, ..."Stop or I'll shoot you" isn't going to make friends in ANY language!

These British sailors will be held in squalor, no doubt and I'd be surprised if any of them can speak Arabic. I hope that their captors see sense soon, before Mr Blair's hand is forced and we end up up with one ugly mess.

Bobby

[chris]

I'm sorry, but I cannot accept that what is happening to our own kinfolk in Iran is not for this site. Pray tell me, there is enough 'fluff' on this and other sites that has absolutely nothing to do with immigration. For heavens sake the xxxxxx Forum has been glued up all week about damn curry and mystics, of all things. I guess that speaks volumes about some perspectives on the world that surrounds them.
On the subject of the Haitians, the hot topic of that has to do with the Cuban Adjustment Act and specifically the amendments brought in during the Clinton administration relating to the wet foot, dry foot arrangement. This allows Cubans (who are 'oppressed' by a Communist regime) to be allowed to stay in the US if they get to stand on US soil (dry foot). If they get picked up at sea by the coastguard in US waters (wet foot), then tough t***y, they get sent back. Much of the criticism (justified IMHO, is that Cubans get preferential treatment compared to the Haitians and other Latinos, most of whom live in squalor in one of the poorest countries in the world. That said, there are many LEGAL Haitians in the US, so there are legal routes for them to enter (especially for the lower skilled people - who I would guess formed the bulk of this ships human cargo).
Perhaps what we Brits should do is move to Cuba, take up citizenship, take a cruise on a big liner, jump ship near Fort Lauderdale and leg it to the beach. Seems a bit easier than visa renewal in London where Brits 'fear for their lives'. I mean that last comment in all seriousness too, as for many it can mean the difference between happiness and absolute distater in every sense of the word. For many other Brits, that fear is too much and choose to remain landlocked in the US.

[Kriz1]

Forums ...are sometimes the only thing that can keep people from cutting their wrists...and if that means there is a little bit of 'fluff' on them that you don't like then ....don't read it...

I for one find that the day to day chat on the forums keeps me a little a sane in what I sometimes feel is a God forsaken country that I have no idea why people would risk losing everything to live in..but they do....and if people wish to talk about curries because they are happy living here...or because it takes their minds off their own worries for an hour or two so be it...

[Munish]

The things these Spring Breakers get up to these days!!!

Seriously, I find it disturbing that folks back in the UK make concerned comment about people from one foreign country trying to enter another foreign country, yet stay silent on 15 of their own UK citizens held hostage in Iran. A country which oppresses, is in political turmoil and has many people under the threat of murder. A country which is exporting much of its ideology to the UK.

Not all folks in the UK make comment on people leaving one foreign country and entering another, and being silent on this topic until now does not mean we content with it either as the posting so implies.

Right now the focus, and I am sure everyone agrees, has to be only on the release of these troops. However, it has become clear today that is not going to be case. Dimplomatic pressure is being applied not just from the UK but from many behind the scenes.

However, dimplomacy is looking useless at the moment bearing in mind Iran's position. Iran have already given two conflicting positions on the position of the British troops when their first one clearly showed them in Iraqi territory. The pictures of the troops are simply humiliating and I feel for them and their families. Iran are either blazen or just too stupid to think people would fall for it.

The British Government are rightly working very hard on this and very smartly using a step by step process. Ultimately if military action is necessary, I would hope it is taken in this case. There can never be a situation where kidnapping of troops becomes an effective method for bargaining otherwise it will continue.

[Munish]

Perhaps what we Brits should do is move to Cuba, take up citizenship, take a cruise on a big liner, jump ship near Fort Lauderdale and leg it to the beach. Seems a bit easier than visa renewal in London where Brits 'fear for their lives'. I mean that last comment in all seriousness too, as for many it can mean the difference between happiness and absolute distater in every sense of the word. For many other Brits, that fear is too much and choose to remain landlocked in the US.

If only! They probably thought of that and would judge you by your country of birth rather than citizenship as they do for family-based petition.

[lorraine]

Forums ...are sometimes the only thing that can keep people from cutting their wrists...and if that means there is a little bit of 'fluff' on them that you don't like then ....don't read it...

I for one find that the day to day chat on the forums keeps me a little a sane in what I sometimes feel is a God forsaken country that I have no idea why people would risk losing everything to live in..but they do....and if people wish to talk about curries because they are happy living here...or because it takes their minds off their own worries for an hour or two so be it...
__________________
Here here well said Kriz totally agree with you

[chris]

Kriz,
I'm not being critical of 'fluff'. If that's what keeps people sane then that is their choice and right to post it. The British are famous for their sense of humour in even the most dire of situations, because that's the leveller. My comment was made relative to a previous post that remarked the UK hostage situation had no place on this site as it was not about immigration. My response was neither is curry and mystics, but they get discussed. That's all my remark was about.
If the 15 'hostages' were American, I think the americaans would be a damn site more vocal and pro-active in their actions than the Brits. The yellow ribbon would be brought out again I'm sure.

[Kriz1]

I think that forums are here for the large and small problems that people face when they make such a big move...sometime we can make a tiny difference in someones life by making them laugh or talking about our own sad stories so others know they are not alone.......we all know about world problems...and if we could get the people in Iran free we would do it...but we can't all we can do is try to help the people we can...be it where to buy curry sauce...or where to find a good lawyer...
Problems don't stop with getting a visa...getting renewel...a greencard...etc...and sometimes a silly thing can send you over the edge...because you are lonely unsure unhappy homesick worried ill etc...

Every problem is so much larger when you are so far from all you know...but I still like to think a story like this will make our troubles seem just a little smaller...if only for a time...

[DEE F]

the xxxxxx Forum has been glued up all week about damn curry and mystics, of all things. I guess that speaks volumes about some perspectives (Quote byChris)

Hi Chris the reason we are all wary of talking about political subjects is mainly beause the threads get locked,so we dont bother anymore,there are a lot of things going on in this world that are outragious and I feel should be addressed but unfortunately other people think differently,so we keep mum about it ,there are a million and one threads that could be started on these and other forums but are not for fear of upsetting others,and rightly so,but we do all have an opinion and at the end of the day we are mainly all British and just because we no longer live there doesnt mean we dont care,as for what is happening to the marines it is horrendous and lets hope the situation is resolved asap,as for the fluff talked on this and other forums,well like Chris says if we can talk about that why cant we discuss the things that matter,although after having said that even the fluffy threads seem to upset some people,so really we cant win:(

Dee xx

[Kriz1]

political subjects are very hard to mod...people have such strong views that it gets personal very quickly...so a lot of forums cut out political talk near enough all together...I would hope that was not the same for fluffy talk..:eek:

If anyone feels very strongly that a subject needs to be talked about...maybe running it by admin first would be an idea...
Expats seem more open to political talk because it is dealing for the most part with very a political subject eg visa's ...other forums were not set up that way...

[floridapete]

Never did I think that my posting of a topic about a group of such desperate Haitians would so quickly be turned into a discussion about British captives in Iran !

I can see you guys are all heart !

[chris]

Yes Pete, we are all heart - trust me on that. It is a sad state when the some people of Haiti feel it's better to risk life and limb on a leaky boat than stay and do the best within their country, which incidentally is under UN supervision after the previous incumbent was 'removed for his own safety' by US forces some while ago and transplanted to an African state. So I do believe the world does know about the plight of the Haitians and does care and is doing something. However, like most of the poverty stricken and turmoil ridden countries in the world, there has to be an inner will to improve things. Unfortunatley the endemic corruption in those countries will always mean that aid goes astray and ploughshares turn into guns. The global defence companies really don't care whose side they supply arms to. And so the plight of the many continues because of the actions of a few.
But let's not get all teary eyed folks at the sight of a boat full of people. If we are to wear our hearts on our sleeves, then consider the many Mexicans who risk life and limb crossing the borders and walking through the desrt to what they see as freedom. many don't survive that walk. Yet.... we are quick to condemn the Mexicans for what they do to illegal immigration in the USA. Same difference I'm afraid.
Anway on the subject of risking life and limb, a good strong Madras will usually create a risk, both personally and for those all around.

[Bobby]

Never did I think that my posting of a topic about a group of such desperate Haitians would so quickly be turned into a discussion about British captives in Iran !

I can see you guys are all heart !

As this is an "Expats" forum, might a remind the honorable gentleman that as he doesn't belong to this affinity, that he concentrate on what's important to him, and not dictate to us "expats" what might be important to us.

I couldn't care less about Haitians entering the US, and their hardships that make them jump ship.

Being ex military and serving in the Gulf, I am however, interested in the well being of British sailors held captive ANYWHERE.

Bobby
_________________________________________________
Just telling it like it is! .....as usual.

[chris]

Hang on there Peter before you give yourself a heart attack. No-one apart from yourself has muttered anything about racism, no-one has thrown teddies out of the pram and certainly no-one has being throwing crap about! The only person that has expounded those words and phrases is you.
Peter began the thread by posting about the Haitian boat news and seemingly lumped it in with legal immigration. That prompted a response from another member who objected to this lumping in. For me, I am guilty as charged of raising the issue of the 15 UK hostages as being somehow less newsworthy to some folks back home in the UK than the Haitian situation. Since then the comments have all remained polite, to the point and non-contraversial. In a previous posting I made it very clear that I personally feel for the plight of ALL the Haitians NOT just the ones on the boat, but complemented that by saying that many Haitians legally enter the US, so there is a legal route, not just an illegal route. In addition, I have tried to highlight the plain fact that the plight of these Haitians who have this journey to 'freedom' are in no way any different to many Mexicans/Latonos who make the very dangerous dry land trip across the southern border, trekking across desert land, from which some do not exit, but perish in the desert heat. YET, we have threads on both this and YOUR own xxxxxx Forum site that allows people to make detrimental comments about these Latinos who enter the US illegally. There is no difference whether they are Mexican, Haitian or even British, their entry is illegal, the only difference is their method of getting here.
If you take the time to read these postings, you will find that, apart from yourself, no-one on this thread has belittled anyone for their views. It is not a political thread as you put it, it is current affairs. It is a good moderator who watches carefully a thread and keeps it adult. It is a very poor moderator who acts as censor and simply stifles debate and discussion because they do not personally agree with the views. That latter route is a very dangerous route to go down when we supposedly live in a era of personal freedoms.
The xxxxxx Forum is owned by you and you are perfectly at liberty to control whatever is on it. That is your prerogative as the owner. it is also Susie's prerogative as the owner of Expats Voice to decide how she wants to operate it and determine the level of freedoms she will permit. To her credit, she has done and continues to do a very good job at allowing balanced and open debate. I know and applaud the efforts that both of you owners do for the likes of E2'rs of which I am one. That should not detract from wider topic discussion.
Some have commented that subjects such as the UK Hostages and the Haitian boat situation are not topics for this site. What is? Immigration per se is the main meat in the Expats Voice sandwich without question, as it is on FF, but I would argue that subject matter, by virtue of who we are, where we came from, and where we are now, expands far beyond that. One only has to look at the topics on F to see that discussion has enlarged beyond simple immigration to all facets of life here as well as what is happening back in the UK and around the world.
I am not seeking to pick a fight or argument with anyone here, but please step off your censor pedestal and take a good long look at threads like this. Or are we to talk about curry and jamiesons all day!

[Munish]

As was mentioned before the forum should be available in relation to all subjects no matter how light or heavy. Some are attracted to the more "political" topics others are attracted to other topics and may be I would be classified as a "political poster."

I have not seen any "racist c**p" on this forum and we need to be very careful about throwing out such accusations. Many times previously we have discussed how being politically correct has gone too far. Let us not ourselves make that same mistakebe shackled by that notion.

I don't see it as a problem if some have so called "extreme" views and cannot have their minds changed. It encourages responses and challenges. As far as I am concerned this forum would suffer a sad and major loss if we lose the diversity of our views and lively debates. Besides, forums are not just about the posters' view but also allow readers to assimilate and be thought provoked.

There may be only 3 - 4 voices on political sites, but there are equally low numbers of posters on more light hearted subjects. If you look at the stats they are all viewed in their hundreds if not thousands. Of course, this is just the opinion of someone who is not an "expat."

[Munish]

Frankly, it would be a travesty if we choose to hide our heads in the sand regarding the Iran kidnapping the situation. There they are risking life and torture and the Iranians act like complete pillocks!

And why are the same people who jump on the racism bandwagon who constantly talk about victimisation now not standing tall and deploring the actions of their Iranian "brothers"! It's okay for them to make a fuss about racism but as soon as the shoe is on the other foot... Double Standards!!!!

[peter gold]

Whilst I do not see the relevance of this post to an ex pats site, I do agree with free speech.
There seems to be a number of non ex pats wanting to knock Floirda. I see no reason why, and suggest the likes of Florida Pete start up there own ....Lets knock the Florida expats site..... because frankly I, and I am sure many others are getting bored with this type of postings.

[jay]

The main difficulties with allowing politics on any forum is that most
of the political posters are very small in number, have no interest in
who they offend, are entrenched in their own extremist beliefs and
rarely accept any opinion other than there own. When told this, the
originators of this often racist crap throw their teddies out of the cot
because someone has dared to disagree with them. I don’t care how much
discussion is given to a topic, an extremist will never change his views
or opinions, so why bother? The poster of such rubbish will merely
belittle others for talking about things he has no interest in.

Most other forum members don’t seem to give a damn. It is rarely more
than 3 or 4 who are party to a political thread. Others don’t bother to
get involved.

These threads can cause huge divisions and are detrimental to forums
rather than enhancements. If the admin of this site want to take the
risk, that’s fine.

Peter



Well IMHO Ive heared it all now, just because you have an opinion dosnt make you a racist, and just because you are living in florida dosnt mean you cannot keep up to speed with current affairs of the uk and voice your opinions on that, its people that name call that cause the arguments.

you guys crack on and voice your opinions Im sure if it gets out of hand sue will jump in and sort you all out lol, and for those of you who dont know me its Jayne from the coffee mornings or to some jaffa the so called racist from the florida forum, hahahahahahahaha

[Bobby]

Whilst I do not see the relevance of this post to an ex pats site, I do agree with free speech.
There seems to be a number of non ex pats wanting to knock Floirda. I see no reason why, and suggest the likes of Florida Pete start up there own ....Lets knock the Florida expats site..... because frankly I, and I am sure many others are getting bored with this type of postings.

Mr Gold,

It's just another sad attempt at belittling those of us who have been successful enough to do what Mr Stanhope failed at, many years ago.

I wish he would just get over it. Surely it's unhealthy to have such a chip on your shoulder about other people's successes.

It's very clear that he has plenty of time on his hands and revels in any "dirt" he can find on immigration to the USA.

When I first read his posts, whilst the site was in it's infancy, I thought he would be useful to the site because of his contacts and experience, but nowadays with his negativity, it just down right annoys me, as I'm sure it does many others.

Bobby
__________________________________________________ __
Just telling it like it is! .....as usual.

[Kriz1]

There have been racist remarks made over the last few months...which is what Peter could be remarking on...its been noted by more than the odd reader of this forum...and more than one or two posters...
Jay I don't see a point to the end of your post..and I don't think its fair to bring any problems you have on other forums here.. if you think there is a problem within FF to do with posts about you or made too you I think its best you deal with it there....

[peter gold]

Bobby
Call me Peter. Mr Gold is too formal. And yes I agree 100% with your comments about Peter Stanhope.

[Kriz1]

It would be so much easier and nicer for the rest of us.. if some people ignored those who pushed their buttons...making remarks about other posters does not make for good reading...
We have all done it at some point...I know its been a very hard learning curve for me not to tell the odd few posters what I truly think of them...but I hold back 'most' of the time...and just go and take it out on the cat...:D :D

[peter gold]

I give more credit to my cat

[Kriz1]

If we want to have political 'chats'...maybe this should go back on topic....

[Susie]

Wow,

You can all probabley tell that I have not been on the forum so much these past couple of days, think you all have a good idea why. Now I am back, wam, it seems as if all hell's broken loose.

I am happy for any world topic to be discussed In the lifestyle section as news seems to be heavily sensored in the USA, providing we all respect each others opinion and do not make personal comments about other forums or any of our members. Our forum rules are clear in this regard so we must all agree to disagree in a civil manor otherwise admin will have no choice but to lock the thread or remove it.

It might be a good idea to have a world news section on the forum where we can debate what else is going on in the world and will run the idea by others. That said, I now will have to refresh my memory on the opening post and will post a reply later

[lorraine]

Wow lets what a day hey!!!!!!!!! I am now going to add something that has absolutely nothing to do with this post at all... I was witeness to a terrible car crash today, I was the vehicle that had to sit behind the helicopter on the road whilst they cut 2 people from the vehicle. I prey they were ok but I think maybe one was dead. During that time I called my hubby and some friends crying at the site I was seeing. Let s all be grateful for just being here and always let our friends and loved ones know how much they mean to us. Sorry I know its nothing to do with all this but I have been in shock most of the day and reading all this C**** just made me think what s the most important thing???? Everyone take care of you and yours xxxxxx

[Susie]

Hi Lorraine,

Yes I know exactly how you feel.

Last November I was stationery and a truck ran into the back of me at speed. He hit me so hard that he caused so much damage to my late husbands Jag.

Whilst it only took 8 weeks to recover from my injuries the nightmares continue. Every time I drive I am now a nervous reck so rarely drive at the moment and am even worse when I am being driven by someone else.

[lorraine]

:D Hi Susie well I hate being driven by someone else and today was just awful.. I never ever what to witness anything like that again. It just made me think we both pulled onto the road at the same time they overtook me and the next vehicle and mins later one of them at least was Dead. Just makes you think always let your loved ones and friends know how much they mean to you.

By the way dont forget susie I am a hypnotist and can help you if you having nightmares, Master hypnotherapist. No Jokes please Bobby

[Bobby]

;)

No jokes.

Glad you're safe!

Bobby

[Kriz1]

Hi Lorraine,

Yes I know exactly how you feel.

Last November I was stationery and a truck ran into the back of me at speed. He hit me so hard that he caused so much damage to my late husbands Jag.

Whilst it only took 8 weeks to recover from my injuries the nightmares continue. Every time I drive I am now a nervous reck so rarely drive at the moment and am even worse when I am being driven by someone else.

I had a double decker bus hit me....it took 2 years to get me back on my feet...and years more of pain...I can't believe I'm not in a wheelchair....
Lucky enough that did not stop me going back to driving...but its not something I do that often anymore...

[Kriz1]

:D Hi Susie well I hate being driven by someone else and today was just awful.. I never ever what to witness anything like that again. It just made me think we both pulled onto the road at the same time they overtook me and the next vehicle and mins later one of them at least was Dead. Just makes you think always let your loved ones and friends know how much they mean to you.

By the way dont forget susie I am a hypnotist and can help you if you having nightmares, Master hypnotherapist. No Jokes please Bobby

I was behind some friends on their moter bikes when they crashed...I was 11...and never want to see something like that again...I've been first to two friends after they had died...one had his throat cut wearing a badly fitting helmet...and another was killed in a knife fight...it does make you think....take care...

[Susie]

I have just read the article in the Sentinel, and do feel sorry for anyone who is so desperate earn enough to feed their families or in fear of their lives. From what I read only one or two are seeking aysulm. I expect if we were in a terrible financial position each one of us would do whateverit takes to be able to feed our children, legal or otherwise, so feel I cannot condem or judge them. I do feel that the ones who do not seek aysulm will be sent back to their homeland.

Whilst I do not agree with breaking any laws, I am a very compassionate person and have sympathy with these people. They must have been very desperate to attempt a journey for over three weeks on such a small boat and with little food. If I were one of those people I doubt if I would be brave enough to try.

[Susie]

It would be so much easier and nicer for the rest of us.. if some people ignored those who pushed their buttons...making remarks about other posters does not make for good reading...
We have all done it at some point...I know its been a very hard learning curve for me not to tell the odd few posters what I truly think of them...but I hold back 'most' of the time...and just go and take it out on the cat...:D :D


Hi Kris

Wise words indeed, lol

[Susie]

:D Hi Susie well I hate being driven by someone else and today was just awful.. I never ever what to witness anything like that again. It just made me think we both pulled onto the road at the same time they overtook me and the next vehicle and mins later one of them at least was Dead. Just makes you think always let your loved ones and friends know how much they mean to you.

By the way dont forget susie I am a hypnotist and can help you if you having nightmares, Master hypnotherapist. No Jokes please Bobby


Hi Lorraine,

I really did not know you were a hypnotherapist, does it truely work for stress, over weight people and does make you quit smoking ?

Think I may need a whole day's session ! and I am not joking so will call you

[floridapete]

Well, hey, how some people can pick a fight where no fight was ever intended !

I first posted this piece of news as a matter of 'thank your lucky stars' for all on this Forum that the members didn't (or don't yet) have to resort to such extreme and life threatening measures for themselves and their families to reach their dream destination in the USA. I also thought, in my naivety, that there just might be a small measure of compassion and sympathy around the ExpatsVoice community for these people from Haiti who now find themselves in such dire straits and, after all their days and weeks of survival against all odds, may be returned straight back to the Haiti that they risked all on escaping.

But no - straight off the bat a fight is picked with me where no fight was ever intended ! My thread subject was paired up with another matter which has no relevance at all, no connection at all, and any sympathy or compassion went right out of the window (if there ever was any at all).

Then the personal attacks come out from the same two directions that I can always expect them ! Good job I usually ignore them ain't it - but some day I may retaliate in like manner ! But that would mean me stooping to the same level as them and I would be loathe to do that for Susies sake.

It is absolutely amazing, isn't it, how some people can pick holes in anything and everything - just to stroke their own egos or bend the thread to their own agendas.

There was nothing intended to be political about this thread, it was just a piece of Florida news that I thought might usefully be brought to your attention in the hope that it might be of interest to you all. "Thank your lucky stars !" as I said before. "There but for the grace...........go I !" But they just couldn't see it !

I have thought from time to time "why do I waste my time on Expats Voice when certain people seem to resent my presence there ?" Well, I do it because Susie asked me to do so on day #1 just about a year ago - I do it because Susie occasionally asks for my assistance and support and advice - I do it because I like to feel that I can (even as a non-Expat writing from 4,000 miles away) some times bring something to this Forum that might otherwise be missed by others who are 'so close to the trees that they often can't see the wood' - I do it because people like Dustin need to have someone and somewhere that they can turn to in their despair.

Most of you will not know that it was me who first 'found' Dustin and his dilemma and who first introduced him to ExPatsVoice. It was me who first brought the Doug Hall scandal to your attention - a thread which is now one of the longest running threads on the Forum and to which I have considerably contributed. I also brought the story to Mike Grogans attention at the Ledger and he then followed up on it with Dustin. If I had not done all of that you all would probably be none the wiser about a major scandal which is happening right on your own doorstep.

Every time a storm of heated, aggressive, attacking discussion like this crops up I wonder how long I will continue to support this Forum.

Frankly, if it wasn't for Susie I wouldnt !

[SHEILA 13]

There is enough bad things happening in this World as this is what started this subject.
I know it is healthy to have a debate and everyone is entitled to their own opinions and rightly so but cant we just agree to differ with each other as you never know "what is round the corner" for any of us.
Have a Nice Day

[chris]

Florida Pete,
First of all, your article was posted in immigration when really it should have been posted in current affairs. That I think did not help, but we are all guilty of putting postings in the wrong place.
Second, I don't believe anyone on this thread has said anything to say that they don't feel for these Haitians. You do a big disservice to all members on this Forum if you believe that.
Thirdly, we have had THREE Pete's posting on this thread: Florida Pete (aka Pete Stanhope), Peter Gold and Topcat (aka Peter of xxxxx Forum). Florida Pete as the original poster was providing information to us, but as can be seen by Bobby's response added his own spin at the end which simply wound someone up the wrong way. Peter Gold added his 5 cents worth where appropriate. Topcat was the poster who made the remarks aimed at our members concerning racism, crap and other disparaging comments which were not helpful to the debate (which I hasten to add was not getting out of hand and was not being abusive or negative). I would hope that if there is any criticism due it goes in the proper direction to those who made the unhelpful remarks.
I was the one who made the comment about the 15 UK Hostages. I made the comment because we do have a cuurent affairs section and for something that has a direct impact on our own country (I was British last time I looked) and I can assure you will have a direct impact on us all here in the USA (if only at the gas pumps), we (certainly 1 poster) appeared to be more concerned about a boatload of Haitians that just happened to make news in the UK. I am sure, now knowing Bobby's background, he more than any of here, knows first hand probably what those 15 who serve to protect us, are going through. If there are any prayers to be had, it should be aimed at them.
Maybe I'm alone in this, but I do feel the UK has lost its identitiy somewhere on the line. Many Brits don't particularly feel the urge to be 'Brits' other than rabbit on about the food they miss. Yet most other countries, and especially here in the USA. that sense of patriotism is strong. Were the 15 hostages been US, I am sure that debate would not have been about a boat, but their own kith and kin.
If by introducing the 15 hostage into the debate create upset, then apologise to all.
I only hope that others who made disparaging remarks on this thread would also apologise and lets get back to some sense of adult behaviour

[Munish]

If my remarks were seen as disparaging or offensive in anyway or just contributing to the negative energy for that I apologise.

[Bobby]

Mr Stanhope,

My first reply to your posting of this story was to let you know that as "expats", we have endured our own agonies in getting here and, you telling us to "thank our lucky stars" just blew my mind.

How dare you tell us how lucky we are.

If you had just posted the information for us to read, then perhaps I may have been a bit more sympathetic toward the Haitians and their failed illegal immigration stunt, but you clearly posted that we are luckier than them, ....and I'm sorry, but because we made a success of it, is down to hard work, motivation and spirit, ....not luck!

Bobby
________________________________________________
Just telling it like it is! .....as usual.

[Kriz1]

Getting back to topic...I agree very much with Sue's post...I can't say I'm happy with anyone who breaks the law of the country they want to call home...but I've never been in their shoes so I can't say how I would act...or too what lengths I would go too to feed my family...
I think its heartbreaking that in this day and age people still have to do stuff like this...

I know that stories like this...and ones like Dustin make me think twice sometimes before I moan about my life....

[DEE F]

If my remarks were to found to be offensive and disparaging to anyone or to any forum then I too profusely apologise.All I was trying to point out was the fact ,that it was mentioned that we dont have enough Adult debates for want of a better phrase,and I just mentioned rightly or wrongly,that whenever a debate starts up and gets heated,the thread is then locked, so therefore I for one get tired of posting and would sooner concentrate on the more"fluffier" stuff,there are a lot of things going on both here at home and the world in general that I am sure we all have an opinion on,and I think this thread was an excellent way of putting it across ,I personally have never made racist remarks about anyone and I certainly feel for people who put life and limb at risk when trying to acheive a better life.but at the end of the day that is all anyone on these forums is doing,and we all have that in our nature to be argumentative , but I think in the majority of cases we are trying to be adult about it, and a healthy debate never did anyone any harm. But once again if my previous post on this thread upset anyone then I am sorry.

Dee xx

[Dustin]

Well, hey, how some people can pick a fight where no fight was ever intended !

I first posted this piece of news as a matter of 'thank your lucky stars' for all on this Forum that the members didn't (or don't yet) have to resort to such extreme and life threatening measures for themselves and their families to reach their dream destination in the USA. I also thought, in my naivety, that there just might be a small measure of compassion and sympathy around the ExpatsVoice community for these people from Haiti who now find themselves in such dire straits and, after all their days and weeks of survival against all odds, may be returned straight back to the Haiti that they risked all on escaping.

But no - straight off the bat a fight is picked with me where no fight was ever intended ! My thread subject was paired up with another matter which has no relevance at all, no connection at all, and any sympathy or compassion went right out of the window (if there ever was any at all).

Then the personal attacks come out from the same two directions that I can always expect them ! Good job I usually ignore them ain't it - but some day I may retaliate in like manner ! But that would mean me stooping to the same level as them and I would be loathe to do that for Susies sake.

It is absolutely amazing, isn't it, how some people can pick holes in anything and everything - just to stroke their own egos or bend the thread to their own agendas.

There was nothing intended to be political about this thread, it was just a piece of Florida news that I thought might usefully be brought to your attention in the hope that it might be of interest to you all. "Thank your lucky stars !" as I said before. "There but for the grace...........go I !" But they just couldn't see it !

I have thought from time to time "why do I waste my time on Expats Voice when certain people seem to resent my presence there ?" Well, I do it because Susie asked me to do so on day #1 just about a year ago - I do it because Susie occasionally asks for my assistance and support and advice - I do it because I like to feel that I can (even as a non-Expat writing from 4,000 miles away) some times bring something to this Forum that might otherwise be missed by others who are 'so close to the trees that they often can't see the wood' - I do it because people like Dustin need to have someone and somewhere that they can turn to in their despair.

Most of you will not know that it was me who first 'found' Dustin and his dilemma and who first introduced him to ExPatsVoice. It was me who first brought the Doug Hall scandal to your attention - a thread which is now one of the longest running threads on the Forum and to which I have considerably contributed. I also brought the story to Mike Grogans attention at the Ledger and he then followed up on it with Dustin. If I had not done all of that you all would probably be none the wiser about a major scandal which is happening right on your own doorstep.

Every time a storm of heated, aggressive, attacking discussion like this crops up I wonder how long I will continue to support this Forum.

Frankly, if it wasn't for Susie I wouldnt !

Dear Peter

I for one am grateful for the help and support you gave to me and my family! At a time of great need for hope you were very much in the spotlight helping us where you could. Without your help, advice and support I would not have made the friends at Expat’s and had the great support I feel I have today.

I do hate to see any infighting as I think life is short and we all have our say to our own minds. Keep up your efforts in helping people like me as I know you will always be in our minds!

Thanks

Dustin
:)

[Susie]

Thank you Dustin,

It is true Peter has worked so hard for the benefit of this site and many expats or wanabee expats in the background since almost day one of this site and my whole hearted thanks goes out to him.

So many more victims have since contacted me via the victim support group as a direct result of Peter's help. There are other simular scam's (for want of a better phase) that are onging again as a result of the referral's given to this site by Peter.

Peter has made it perfectly clear he does not wish to become an expat that does not mean he cannot join our site as he has so much knowledge to share with us all and gives his time freely

A good , even heated debate is welcome but as I said personal attacks do detract from the most important issues and reasons why we set up this site. I do just wish sometimes that negative energy was turned into positive energy and more articles were posted even if the subject matter is the illegals as this then gives each of us the opportunity to repond directly to the reporters and openly discuss between ourselves

[chris]

As several members have apologies, myself included, I was waiting to see an apology from Topcat in whose posting were uttered the words 'racism', 'crap' and disparaging remarks about other members who Topcat alleges have agendas to 'stir the pot' for the sake of it.
But surprise, surprise, that offending posting has 'disappeared' altogether from this thread with absolutely no comment from anyone in the 'engine room' as to why this happened. I also note that mine and several other threads have been edited in the last 24 hours by Topcat to remove the name of the forum owned by said Topcat.
Can we have a little upfront honesty here folks or is this how the engine room manipulates debate and threads. The UK has the 'D' notice, the US has the Patriot Act and the Sharpie, the Russians have the AK47 and Siberia. Do we just make things disappear without explanation??

[DEE F]

Hi Chris so glad you have posted ,I seriously thought I was going a little strange then, A posting has dissapeared,I am not bothered where it has gone just wanted to make sure it wasnt me ,heading for the funny farm,aw well mystery solved,you all take care now and have a good one.

Dee xx

[Dustin]

sorry the " D " NOTICE?

dustin?

[Susie]

Hi

I think this was a thread that went missing and running this test to see if it comes back

Just checked and it is now back but some of the posts may have gone or been edited

[chris]

Dustin,
The 'D' notice is an instrument of censorship that the UK Govt has in its arsenal against the press printing stories it does not want airing. It is not used very often and as you can appreciate is probably used in situations of national security or possible political embarrasment. If a newspapare has an article it wants to print and Govt does not want it to print, the Govt issues the news media with a 'D' notice.

[DEE F]

Hi Chris,hahahahha thought you were having a go at me,will have to stop getting paranoid,take care.

Love Dee xxx