E2 Visa Supporters

[charliesmum]

Hi

Thought I would let you all know we have another website set up where people can add support and comments about E2 Visa Reform.

Please check out

www.E2VisaSupporters.org

We will be very thankful for any positive comments.

If you would like to see our original website

www.E2VisaReform.org

and we have a map website where E2 Visa Holders can place themselves

www.E2VisaHolder.com

Cheers
Zoe

[Susie]

well done for all your hard work, eventually someday changes will come, they have to, posted as supporter

[Susie]

somehow I managed to enter twice, so can you delete one, thanks

[charliesmum]

Thanks Susie

[Carl]

done mine too.

[charliesmum]

Thanks Carl - anyone else happy to support us and write a comment on our website.

Zoe

[dip your toe]

I'm beginning to think that the only way this visa will change is if people stop applying for it. Supply and demand and all that.

[charliesmum]

Very well to say but you really don't understand what the implications of not being able to stay here long term are until you have been here for a while.

I still truly believe this visa will change - we need to let the people in Washington know we are here - as we are not as high profile as most of the other types of visas. I don't think anyone has made a fuss or even asked for any change before us.

We go to Washington next Monday and maybe this trip will start to turn things for us.

Changes don't happen overnight and I was told by a lobbyist that it takes on average 8 years to get a Bill through Congress - we are coming up for four, so we can only hope the time is becoming right. It may be that the change in power in Congress may favour us.

I will be very happy to prove the - many - people who say there isn't a hope of changing this wrong!!

Zoe

[dip your toe]

Very well to say but you really don't understand what the implications of not being able to stay here long term are until you have been here for a while.

Exactly, yet there is an industry that knows full well what those implications are and continues to cater for it. Just begin to add up the expense associate with the visa, are those who benefit financial going to kill the goose that lays their golden egg?


I will be very happy to prove the - many - people who say there isn't a hope of changing this wrong!!

And I for one would be happy to be proved wrong.

[dip your toe]

Apart from the unquantifiable cost of stress and emotion, I wonder what the actual cost is of maintaining an E2 visa over, say, 25 years.

Fill in the blanks.:)

Original application:$________

Consultant/attorney fees:$_______

Travel and accomodation:$_______

Photos/documentation etc. etc $______

Any other ( Please state ) $_________

Repeat above for each renewal.

******

Then there is:

Annual driving licence renewal: $ _______ x 25 x # of family members.

Kids on international student fees just to keep them here: 'x' amount of kids, 'x' amount of years $__________

******

Then, if your business fails ( and many do ) you can add the cost of the business, brokers fees, working capital etc. etc. etc.

*****

Oh, and don't forget to factor in health insurance.

******

I'm sure there's more that I haven't listed.

[dip your toe]

Can anyone list what the U.S. is losing out on by keeping the current E2 system?

[norcal]

Yes - we leave money in our homelands and make long term investments outside of this country. We build profitable businesses in the US, sell them and take all our money out of the country. When we retire we draw US pension but spend it all in the country we are now living in.

The fact that the E2 visa has not been overhauled is not because congress do not think it should be changed but rather that immigration as a whole is such a mess and so emotive and most of them have never heard of an E2 visa. Also it is the apathy of E2 visa holders not protesting for change - luckily for us all we have Zoe setting a shining example of 'the squeaky wheel' and every time I read her posts it stirs me to once again phone my congressman. It does work - everyone in the office knows me as does Congressman Lungren. When the E2 visa is ever mentioned they now know exactly what it is and the problems with it - that is only a good thing. Now,if I could only get him to sponsor this Bill . . . I am trying I promise. But, unless our representatives know what an E2 visa is they are unlikely to take any interest so please - get in touch with your Congressman.

Or we can just sit and complain about our lot like a lot of whinging poms and criticize those who are trying to make a better life.

[dip your toe]

Yes - we leave money in our homelands and make long term investments outside of this country. We build profitable businesses in the US, sell them and take all our money out of the country. When we retire we draw US pension but spend it all in the country we are now living in.


Not quite sure what your trying to say there. For every good reason, and there are many good reasons IMHO, that one can come up with to support E2 change, there is a counter arguement, of variable strength, that may well negate that reason. Negotiating from the knowledge of what those counter arguements could be should strengthen your own arguement for change.

In other words, you can't go into negotiations demanding change to x,y, & z, if you don't know if there is a strong arguement for x, y, & z. being there in the first place.

[norcal]

"Can anyone list what the U.S. is losing out on by keeping the current E2 system?"

I just tried to answer your question. I agree we need to know the other side and I have debated this at great length with local politicians, lobbyists etc. At this point I have not spoken to anyone who does not agree that the restrictions should be lifted.

[chris]

I think perhaps DYT's obvious questioning/debating strengths might be better served working WITH Zoe on achieving positive change for the E2 visa rather than simply just poking a stick, which DYT seems to have a history of on this and other forums.
Unless people DO SOMETHING it is all just hot air.

[dip your toe]

I think perhaps DYT's obvious questioning/debating strengths might be better served working WITH Zoe on achieving positive change for the E2 visa rather than simply just poking a stick, which DYT seems to have a history of on this and other forums.
Unless people DO SOMETHING it is all just hot air.

Poking a stick/Devils' Advocate/alternative viewpoint. I've always been of the opinion that unless you know what the oppositions viewpoint is you're at a disadvantage. I can't see any benefit in having a forum where everybody thinks allong the same lines, whether they be right or wrong, where those who seek information are immediately seized upon by those who have something to sell and those who seek information only want to listen to what they want to hear. I totally respect what Zoe and others are trying to do, but one sides positive has to be the other sides negative, unless you can convince them otherwise. By knowing, or at least taking on board, what the otherside may be thinking you strengthen your case.

I wouldn't even begin to know what the immigration authorities think of the E2. I have neither the facts nor the figures on which to make a judgement on their position. I can only surmise. I could, however, even without this knowledge, put up a reasoned arguement against every E2 proposal of change except one, and even that I could suggest a possible alternative.

Consider this. If, for arguements sake, in the boom times, the E2 reform group, wanted a Green Card for every E2er who had been here on an E2 for say 5 years or two renewals, a reasonable request. Then, enter the recession. How many of those E2ers who had been granted the hypothetical green card would have been looking to supplement their income by seeking employment and thus taking jobs from Americans. Would those who have had to return to the UK, because their business has failed to reach the standards set by the E2, still be here if they had got a green card? Would their business still be operating or would they be taking American jobs?

Many L1 visa holders have dropped their UK business ( I use the term loosely ) once they received their green card. I'm sure the USCIS would be aware of the same thing happening to E2 visa holders. Rightly or wrongly.

[Carl]

Why do people always go on about the L1 people giving up their businesses, its rubbish, everyone I know on L1 that has change to a green card has grown their business or changed their business, not got rid of it. You really have no idea what L1ers go though, have you.

Carl.

[dip your toe]

Why do people always go on about the L1 people giving up their businesses, its rubbish, everyone I know on L1 that has change to a green card has grown their business or changed their business, not got rid of it. You really have no idea what L1ers go though, have you.

Carl.

No, never claimed to. Do know of quite a few who abused the system and gave up their UK business once they got their green card though. Unfortunately that abuse reflects on others and makes the scrutiny of visa applications, and dare I say visa reform, more difficult.

[Carl]

No, never claimed to. Do know of quite a few who abused the system and gave up their UK business once they got their green card though. Unfortunately that abuse reflects on others and makes the scrutiny of visa applications, and dare I say visa reform, more difficult.

Its not abuse, its pefectly within the rules.

[dip your toe]

Its not abuse, its pefectly within the rules.

Not strictly what the Embassy are looking for though is it? I would surmise that those who use, have used, this loophole make it more difficult for future applications and reform.

[Carl]

[QUOTE=dip your toe;92287]Not strictly what the Embassy are looking for though is it? I would surmise that those who use, have used, this loophole make it more difficult for future applications and reform.[/QUOTE

It is my opinion that you summize wrongly, a EB1 AOS is done by USCIS and the E2 is issued by the department of State for one thing and has no reflection on E2 reform at all. The embassy are not even involved in a AOS to a green card and it is not a loophole at all, it is a fact that it is perfectly legitimate to do do so. It also shows commitment to the United States if anything. Sorry DYT but you are wrong.

Carl.

[dip your toe]

It is my opinion that you summize wrongly, a EB1 AOS is done by USCIS and the E2 is issued by the department of State for one thing and has no reflection on E2 reform at all. The embassy are not even involved in a AOS to a green card and it is not a loophole at all, it is a fact that it is perfectly legitimate to do do so. It also shows commitment to the United States if anything. Sorry DYT but you are wrong.

Carl.

Search for 'L1 loophole' and 'L1 abuse' and 'L1 fraud'.

You'd have to be very naive to think that this will not have an effect on future applications or that it could directly or indirectly affect other visas and reform.

Wasn't there a case several years ago where a construction company was aiding people to get L1/green cards using the main company as an umberella company for a multitude of small companies?

I also understood that part of the increase in the application fee was to help fund a visa fraud squad.

Cause and affect, simple as that.

[Carl]

The Fraud fee ($500) was a totally different thing, in fact it was for the H1-B Indian job shops, if you do some research you will find it. Just like teh recent increase is, they added it to teh L1 because they thought that they would move to L1 instead of H1-B. It is not a loophole or a fraud if someone sells the UK business when they get a greencard. obtaining it by Fraud is a different thing altogether.
Ohh I am far from Naive.
I still say you are wrong on this subject, but as you say, thats what this forum is for.

[chris]

I may be speaking out of turn here but the title of this thread was E2 Visa SUPPORTERS. It appears to have degenerated into E2 Visa DETRACTORS.
Personally, I think if people feel they know how to successfully debate this Visa, then their claimed talents are wasted exhaling hot air on this forum and should be an active part of Zoe's working for change.
The words 'put up or shut up' spring to mind.

[Carl]

Yes. Sorry, DYT and myself have gone away from the thread. I apologize.

Carl.

[dip your toe]

I may be speaking out of turn here but the title of this thread was E2 Visa SUPPORTERS. It appears to have degenerated into E2 Visa DETRACTORS.
Personally, I think if people feel they know how to successfully debate this Visa, then their claimed talents are wasted exhaling hot air on this forum and should be an active part of Zoe's working for change.
The words 'put up or shut up' spring to mind.

Two apologies, one for not replying sooner, I've been out of town, and two, for going of topic.

Does anyone know how to 'successfully' debate this visa? How can you successfully debate something when even the 'official' answers to many questions are so ambiguous? How can you put forward an alternative if you haven't considered the possible reasons why there has been little change in the past, nothing in the present, and doubtful for any in the future.

No point in complaining/petitioning if you don't know what the counter arguements are going to be.

No point singing from the same hymn sheet if the opposition have a different religion.

An analogy: Two biggest complaints about Disney a) The price of admission, b) the lines are too long.

[charliesmum]

I'm not quite sure what you mean in your post.

The reform we are looking for is to allow E2 Visa Holders to apply for Green Cards. If this was to happen, it would mean we didn't have the problems with the visa - eg renewals, kids aging out, retirement etc. You would have to earn the chance to get a Green Card not just get one because you are on the visa.

We have spoken to many people in Washington who think what we are asking for is a good change for people who are bringing investment and creating employment.

But the reality is that Immigration in any form is a 'bad word' in Washington and until something changes with that we are finding bringing these changes about very difficult.

So it isn't a case of successfully debating the issue - we are doing that and have been for 4 years - and I do know the counter arguments (the main one being you knew the rules when you got the visa) and I have successfully brought people round to agreeing with us.

The reason there has been no change in the past is that no one has ever asked for it before. The E2 Visa is so unknown it is ridiculous, even by the people who are supposed to be experts in the Immigration Debate.

No I haven't yet been successful yet in changing the legislation on the visa, but when you think of the enormity of what we are asking a foreign Government to do, it's not going to happen overnight. Four years ago none of us knew there was any chance of asking for this to happen, let alone meet with the people we have met with.

We have learnt a lot in 4 years and are closer than ever to getting this changed, but I will not give up until I am told there is no hope by the people who can make that decision. I spend a lot of time, money and effort on this and I fully believe the change will come.

People can moan and groan and say they don't believe it will happen, but it won't happen if everyone gives up.

Still not sure if I have really responded to what you are talking about as I still don't get what you are asking.

Zoe

[CAbound2010]

No, never claimed to. Do know of quite a few who abused the system and gave up their UK business once they got their green card though. Unfortunately that abuse reflects on others and makes the scrutiny of visa applications, and dare I say visa reform, more difficult.

thats not abusing the system i'm afraid. its called using the system to your advantage. If an L1 visa holder wants to disable their business in their home country on receipt of green card approval that is perfectly legal and completely above board.
It is not a requirement that the business operates for the duration of the green card only that the business continues operating for the duration of an L visa

[dip your toe]

Zoe: Thanks for your reply. I'm not really asking anything, I'm just trying to get across an alternative viewpoint and trying to imagine what the counter arguement would be from those who would oppose reform.

The Disney analogy is simple. There is a demand for their product, so why change anything i.e lower prices. Same with the E2, there is a demand for this visa so why change anything?

Do you think some of those who have returned would still be here, or at least have stayed longer if they had been granted a green card and been able to work i.e take American jobs? Same applies to those who are landlocked or are struggling in the recession, would they not have supplemented their income by taking an Americans job if they had a green card.

The aging out is a bummer, as I well know, but it brings a lot of money into the country/economy as we struggle to meet international tuition fees etc. in an effort to keep the family unit together. There's a reason why they're not allowed to work off campus.

The biggest arguement that I could make for reform that, IMO would be hard to refute, is that it restricts the true entrepeneur from making business decisions and financial commitments due to the ambiguity of the assessors and the restrictions on the time frame in which to achieve a return.

I'd like to see a carrot and stick approach e.g.. Okay, you now employ 'x' amount of employees and/or you now have $'x'' in turnover/profit/tax return. here's your green card.

At the moment it's all stick and no carrot.

I wish you well.

BTW: I have the wording of a letter to confirm my intent to return to the UK in the event of terminaation of E2. PM me if you need it. It will suffice.

[bobinalbuquerque]

It is very much the case that the business angle is the most compelling dynamic in discussions with politicians and their staff.DYT's points are I think pretty much spot-on, the E2 is a popular visa and in its present form could never automatically provide LPR status.

What resonates well is the story of business:employees,investment,longevity,and the overall impact on the tax base.Moulding it altogether with an agreeable formula is very much the focus of E2 visa reform today.

[Bayfield]

There is an Investment Visa that leads to a GC - EB5.

[Susie]

Well done for all your hard work in trying to get changes to the E 2 visa. Even though I am more for a compassionate visa / green card on case by case basis if without help families would become separated.

The thing you could try is speak with a lobbyist, yes they cant paying and I tried to raise funds by selling t-shirts. I only sold a few so made a great loss on them and have hundreds left

But at first they will speak to you for free


There is a new bill just going into the house either now or in a day or so, when I hear it is in I will get a full text and post ASAP but currently waiting as this new bill if it goes through could well help at least some members