Another Visa Waiver Program question

[cloneBaby]

First, I am a Japanese citizen and I entered US using Visa Waiver Program several times in the past. I entered US four times for the last 2 year.

10/12/2004 Stayed for 2 weeks or so
11/27/2004 Stayed for 3 months
06/11/2005 Stayed for 3 months
10/29/2005 Stayed for 3 months

I was stopped by an immigration officer at the airport last time (10/29/2005), and she asked me a couple of questions. She asked me to obtain a Visa next time, so I applied for it back in February. However, the application was denied and I received a letter. The letter has a box checked, and it says

"You appear to be eligible to travel without a visa using the Visa Waiver Program (VWP). If, after reading the attached information sheet, you still wish to apply for a visa, please submit your application with an explanatory letter."

I'd like to go to US next month and spend 2 months or so; I'd like to meet a couple of people. Do I need to apply for a visa in this case? Can I just use Visa Waiver Program because that's what the officer at US Consulate in Japan essentially suggested?

[floridapete]

Oh-oh ! The old VWP Catch22 situation huh ?

US Embassy says one thing - USCIS guy/gal on desk knows another thing ! That's because they all work for the US Government - but for different branches of it !!

Unfortunately for you, you won't know whether the entry officer will let you in on VWP again next time - until you arrive there and are maybe get refused entry ! So you might want to take that letter along and try waving it under their nose when they do refuse you entry under VWP (if they do). as you will otherwise have no right of appeal against their refusal. Whether the letter will actually make ANY difference to their immoveable stance, however, would remain to be seen. (They don't like to be proved wrong).

But, just to be on the safe side, you may prefer to get that B2 visa anyway and have a 'belt and braces (i.e. suspenders)' remedy as protection against their arbitrary attitudes.

Hey ho - 'welcome to America' - I don't think so !

[cloneBaby]

But, just to be on the safe side, you may prefer to get that B2 visa anyway and have a 'belt and braces (i.e. suspenders)' remedy as protection against their arbitrary attitudes.

Is it advisable that I apply for B1/B2 soon after the application was denied (this February)? I hate to risk entering the country (while I'm not a criminal), but I also don't want to end up spending so much time and effort getting paperwork done just to be safe ...

[Bobby]

Can I ask what visa you applied for and why your visa application was denied? This information may help anyone advise you of your chances.

I would hate to advise you to turn up at the airport and take your chance if you have already been "tagged" as having a visa denied as you will DEFINITELY be questioned on this.

There's a section on the VWP green form that asks if and where you have ever applied for a visa and asks if you have ever been denied. As you are going to have to complete this honestly, opens you up to all sorts of paranoid questioning.

Whilst I am sure your visit and timelines of previous visits and departures are within the pararmeters of what is deemed to be normal passage, I would not like to guess whether you will be successful or not.

You are in the hands of the "Gods", as so many others are, after a long journey.

I wouldn't put too much hope on the contents of the denial letter concerning VWP. As I presume this is a generalisation regarding your request to only visit for 2 months. I think the point that they are making is that you don't need the visa you are applying for if you only intend to stay 2 months and have never overstayed before. They are not interested at that point on how many trips you have had in the past 2 years. The Entry Officer is the one who is going to scrutinize this.

My answer may seem a little harsh, but I think it's better to expect the worst after being denied.

Good Luck,

Bobby

[JulieC]

It is down to the discretion of the port of entry officer whether to admit you on visa waiver. I know of people doing three months in one week out who have done this four or five times and never a question asked and others who have done it twice hauled into an interrogation room. So it is hard to answer this question as there is no hard and fast rule. I would say if you are young and single and female, be careful. My daughter is and has been questioned on coming in, I think they thought she has a boyfirend here or was here looking for one. she got through ok on saying her parents and brother lived here.

[cloneBaby]

My answer may seem a little harsh, but I think it's better to expect the worst after being denied.

Good Luck,

Bobby
So, the best thing to do is to get a visa? Is it the reasonable approach?

(I hate the fact that my immigration record looks worse than it was 4 months ago. I even consulted an immigration lawyer to make sure if I were doing this right and paid several hundred dollars for it. Turned out that she didn't even know how to fill out the form correctly to apply for B1/B2, but that's another story ...)

Also if I try to enter US next year, does it change anything?

[JulieC]

Dont you just love immigration lawyers!!!

Yes the longer you leave it the better. The problem is you usually have to give a reason why you need B2? If you are over 50 and say you are retired, you dont usually have a problem. I dont know how old you are or what you are doing when you are in the US, but if could be that you cannot give a good enough reason for needing it.

[Bobby]

You got off lightly with a couple of hundred dollars. Consider yourself "fortunate".

I'd say that the fortune cookies were in your favour this week, but those are Chinese, and I suppose that's like you telling me that I'm lucky that Tony Blair is my PM. Ethnic or political satire is not my strong point, so don't give me a hard time.

I've been at teppan yaki all night, so I'm all for more Japanese immigrants to replace these Koreans (and abundance of Micronesians) and add some authenticity to Japanese restaurants in Central Florida.

[cloneBaby]

You got off lightly with a couple of hundred dollars. Consider yourself "fortunate".

I had F and H in the past and I traveled in and out of US number of times; I also used VWP number of times recently. I never really had any immigration or visa problem in the past, so I kind of got caught off-guard. It seems that I need to approach this differently next time ...

[Susie]

First, I am a Japanese citizen and I entered US using Visa Waiver Program several times in the past. I entered US four times for the last 2 year.

10/12/2004 Stayed for 2 weeks or so
11/27/2004 Stayed for 3 months
06/11/2005 Stayed for 3 months
10/29/2005 Stayed for 3 months

I was stopped by an immigration officer at the airport last time (10/29/2005), and she asked me a couple of questions. She asked me to obtain a Visa next time, so I applied for it back in February. However, the application was denied and I received a letter. The letter has a box checked, and it says

"You appear to be eligible to travel without a visa using the Visa Waiver Program (VWP). If, after reading the attached information sheet, you still wish to apply for a visa, please submit your application with an explanatory letter."

I'd like to go to US next month and spend 2 months or so; I'd like to meet a couple of people. Do I need to apply for a visa in this case? Can I just use Visa Waiver Program because that's what the officer at US Consulate in Japan essentially suggested?

Hello and :welcome:

Just noticed you have joined us, and posting, great stuff

Hope we can meet the next time you are in the US


If you are only coming to the US for less than 3 months the embassy will say you do not need a visa , so deny. Best to say you are coming for120 days.

Should you decide to apply for a B visa make sure you take the following


Proof of

1, Job to return to after your vacation

2, Utilities bills

3. Copy of lease of residence or mortgage statement

4. Copy of bills you pay like, water, electric phone, mortgage, rent etc.,

5. Proof that you have strong family ties to home country

6. Bank statements

7. Copies of any finance agreements you are currently paying off


If you do not or cannot prove all of these you will be denied

Sec 214 of the NIA states

# All applicants shall be deemed and immigrant until such times as they prove to the consulars satisfaction they are not#

The may be other documents you should take, what has anyone else taken ?

The slightest hint in your answers to consular officer you have immigrant intent and you will be denied

Also

They want to know how many days/times you have been in the US in the past 12 months, once to get near to or over 180 days in the past 12 months they accuse you of having immigrant intent

Please keep us updated

[punky]

As Susie has bumped this thread, how did you get on CloneBaby?

The VWP/B visa is an issue that needs to be dealt with. In a lot of cases, people are told to get a B visa due to overuse of the VWP. They go for a B visa, and get denied citing that they can use the VWP... Not only are they back to square one, but they have to tick they have been denied a visa and go through secondary questioning.

I'd like to see this addressed along with the E visa issues, but I don't think there's much that could be done about it.

[floridapete]

And........just to confuse the issue further there is now widespread speculation of the Visa Waiver Program being revised or discontinued in the next year or two.

A report in the Mail on Sunday (written by their 'Whitehall corespondent) cites US DHS sources and congress pressure following on 9/11 and recent bombings and attempted bombings.

Now if everybody has to get a B2 visa - just think what that will do to Embassies in those 27 countries and their waiting times !

But it may all just be scary rumours ! ;)

[punky]

And........just to confuse the issue further there is now widespread speculation of the Visa Waiver Program being revised or discontinued in the next year or two.

A report in the Mail on Sunday (written by their 'Whitehall corespondent) cites US DHS sources and congress pressure following on 9/11 and recent bombings and attempted bombings.

Now if everybody has to get a B2 visa - just think what that will do to Embassies in those 27 countries and their waiting times !

But it may all just be scary rumours ! ;)

Dear God, I hope so. I can't see them the scrapping the VWP, I really can't. The 7th layer of hell that constitutes the US embassy in London wouldn't be able to cope. Not unless they really heavily geared themselves up and streamlined the process down.

Is this what you meant Pete? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=402852&in_page_id=1770

[Susie]

And........just to confuse the issue further there is now widespread speculation of the Visa Waiver Program being revised or discontinued in the next year or two.

A report in the Mail on Sunday (written by their 'Whitehall corespondent) cites US DHS sources and congress pressure following on 9/11 and recent bombings and attempted bombings.

Now if everybody has to get a B2 visa - just think what that will do to Embassies in those 27 countries and their waiting times !

But it may all just be scary rumours ! ;)


Hi Peter

I doubt it may be scary rumours. There is no smoke without fire.

If anyone hears anything or see's something in the press could they post. Thanks

[floridapete]

Is this what you meant Pete? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=402852&in_page_id=1770

No, that was a previous piece - but it gives interesting background to what their concerns may be.

I couldn't find the Mail on Sunday piece online.

[ettena]

Hi, I have just joined the forum and have spent alot of time reading very interesting and very useful information, thankyou for this.
Mine is another hard luck story and to cut it really short, I got E2 status and came over to run the business that we bought having been put on a deadline by the seller. my partner joined me 2 months later. I thought that I had all of the paperwork that we both needed. We both had B2's (only for one year!) they expired but I assured my other half that he had status along with me. Apparantly not! our visa 'specialists' had not filed for my husbands status saying that I told them specifically that he wasn't coming to Florida! So he then found out he was an overstayer and had to go home! It was a very stressful time. He successfully got home without a ban or kick up the B..tt on the way out and stayed in the Uk for 5 - 6 weeks and then came back with the hope that my E2 application would be trundling along in london with an interview pending. Well 90 days later, nothing! we are now up to a 30 week wait. So he has gone back to london, another lot of flights, money to live on and seperation for both of us.
Question is how long should he safely stay before returning to florida? I know that he has the date of entry and exit stamped in his passport. He wants to come back as soon as possible as we both need him here but does anyone know how long to wait without alarm bells going off??? Also he will need to do this more than one more time this year with the visa appointments being at 30 weeks
Also we have been advised to apply for a B visa for him next time around, with of course some supporting documentation that he lives/resides inthe uk but with the intent to return BUT.. the suggestion is that he goes along to the interview and comes clean and says.. my wife is in florida waiting for an E2 appointment, I want to be with her.. etc.. etc.. and need more than 90 days and of course I am going to return to wind up my business but of course I will eventually join her when I go for the interview with her! What do you think? any experience of this? :cool: :rolleyes: :eek:

[peter gold]

Put simply thye must not think he is living in the US
A rule of thumb is to be out for as long as you were here i.e 90 days here 90 days in the UK.
If you are using an attorney you may want him to prepare a letter for your husband to travel with.
Why on earth did you close on the business before the visa was ajudicated upon.??

[anniefromessex]

Hi and welcome to the site.

Sorry I haven't spoken with you yet, everything has been kind of messed up for me so am just catching up.

Hate to tell you this but my husband and I had B Visas for 10 years. Before they expired we applied for and were granted L Visa's - my husband started up a maintenance company over here. Unfortunately after the first year he was denied but our VA appealed against the decision, at the same time applying for a Green Card for my husband which he subsequently received, still with no news on the appeal! I had to put myself out of status because of serious illness back in England and had to revert to VW status, this went on for over a year where I was travelling back and forth between here and England, a costly exercise indeed. Our Attorney suggested I go to the American Embassy in London with a covering letter from her applying for a B Visa again (as it had expired by this time). Unfortunately they are soo blinkered, I had documentation with me showing I still owned a property there, had Bank accounts, family etc but the guy was totally unreasonable stating my first priority was to the USA (obviously because my husband was living there), turned me down flat and gave me no chance to show any documentation whatsoever. They are not human really, I know they have to deal with a lot of people in the course of a day but their song sheet seems to sing "No, No, No, not Yeah, Yeah, Yeah!!!

Hope your dealings with them are different to mine, and many others, but you wanted to know!!! My son and family also tried to get B Visa's, but ended up being deported from the Bahamas so I hope you get somebody with a bit of savvy, who is not in a bad mood and had a good journey into London that day!!

I know the above sounds very cynical, believe me I am now. I used to live in a Mickey Mouse world and was very happy there, wish I still lived there, ha ha!!

Hope all goes well for you though.

B.regards
Anniex

[ettena]

Hi, to answer the second question first. ignorance, we thought by going through texas and getting the E2 status with a submitted biz plan and financials that getting the visa in london was merely a formality. We thought that Texas was the rubber stamp process for London and that we were simply paying extra to fast track our visa. We didn't realise the waiting time and what postion the biz could be in by the time we got our visa. The advice we got was only by asking questions and as usual you only get wait you ask for no one fills in the gaps.
As for my husband you can imagine how worthless he feels. He can't manage the biz with him over there and me over here from a work and monetary point of view. We are coming up for 18 months here and my status will need to be extended by the time we get our visa appointment. I am happy with how our biz is meeting our biz plan etc.. but wish there was some way out of the mistake that the immigration/visa guys have made for us.
Perhaps they can pay towards the flights!!

[ettena]

Hi Annie, thank you for the welcome. We have had very mixed opinions on the B visa, you are right they know I have a business and that my husband will join me anyway which seems more of the reason not to give him the B visa. I suppose they need an excuse not to let us in so any reason to say no is a good one
Did you have any problem getting in an out on waivers?

[anniefromessex]

Hi again,

To be honest with you I didn't have too many problems - I usually shook like a leaf before I got to the desk, after all I had an expired B Visa and an out of date L Visa, plus a denied Visa (B) but usually they were quite humanitarian, asked me a few questions (never got taken for secondary questioning which is odd considering I have been since I've had a Green Card, oh well)!! One time the guy even stamped me in for 6 months - what a guy!!! So there are good as well as bad, and just hope that your hubby gets the same attitude.

Wish you both all the luck in the world.

Anniex

[peter gold]

Depends on airport
Do not enre through gateway airports such as Dalls, Miaimi
Try and get sandford and be another tourist

[Emmalee25]

I second that peter,
Never had a prob at sanford, arrived on a cramped crappy flight, looked harrassed, no questions...."enjoy your vacation" the sort of welcome one would expect!
Em x

[mark]

Hello ettena and welcome

Just catching up with postings as a quick break, what a mess you are in I hope you get sorted soon