Florida Dream Is Now Over

[svrinc1]

FLORIDA DREAM IS NOW OVER
This is going to be a very long and drawn out story but I don’t think anyone could form a real opinion of it unless I include everything from start to finish.
I originally applied for an L visa in 2002 to transfer from my UK Company “SH CPI LTD” to my new US Company “CANNOT GIVE NAME AT PRESENT”. I did the premium processing for the 15 day turn around but they came back requiring more information. It then took 12 months to receive an approval notice. During all the waiting period, I did not visit the US to make any efforts to start this business. I did not want to risk doing something that would jeopardize the visa.
Within the application I had stated that the company would use sub contractors for virtually all the necessary works for the first 12 months and that when the visa was renewed for the following 2 years, I would bring all the work in house directly for the company. This would mean employing people directly for the Company and purchasing trucks and phones to go with it.
The visa was approved on 28 October 2003 for 12 months. However, I never received the notice of approval. After much aggravation with my Immigration Attorney over the next 3 months due to him telling me I had to apply for a duplicate and wait another 10 months, I decided to e mail the premium processing center as a last and hopeful resort. They came straight back to me and issued another approval notice. Wow, success at last you think. Not quite, I received it 2 weeks later dated 28 February 2004 to run until 27 October 2004. By the time I had booked flights, organized all our belongings to be sent over and gone over to organize the office, I had lost another month. This left me ONLY 7 months to build the business and prove it was worthy of a visa renewal for 2 years. At this point I had sold everything in the UK (house, furniture & cars) to finance the Florida venture.
Here is one of the good parts to the story. I acquired no less than 45 contracts in the first 6 months which is phenomenal when you consider that most Mgt Co’s run about 15 to 35 properties. I was employing at least 7 people albeit as sub contractors. Plus, there were the other non specific sub contractors that were being employed. I had the business booming. This should have proved that I was doing the job I had transferred to do. Grow the business and create employment.
The L visa renewal was sent in on time with all the relevant documents. I thought it would be a formality. Wrong again. The L visa renewal was denied. I could not believe it. Part of the reason given was that I was not employing anyone directly for the Company. This begs the question of why I was issued one in the first place as I had clearly stated the intentions of the building and growth of the Company in the original application.
I appealed the decision and it was denied again. At this point it was sent to Washington from Texas for review. I was advised by our Immigration Attorney that it would probably take 12 to 18 months to get back and that it is very rare that they overturn a decision. I asked what my next step should be.
The US Immigration Authorities do not have anything within their system that allows them (not that they want to) to treat each case on its individual merits. If they are not quite happy about a couple of things that you are doing within your business, why don’t they just point these things out and explain that you will not receive another renewal if you do not put these things in place? But they don’t, they just deny and there is no door you can knock on to discuss the situation. This was clearly a business that was growing quickly and was bound to employ more people within the Community. Also, at the end of the day, I did not receive my first 12 months visa in full.
My immigration Attorney said I could apply for another L visa while the first was under appeal. She said it was totally legal. The authorities sent it back telling us this was not allowed (minus my $1000 premium processing fee). I asked what the next step was and was informed that I could apply for an E2 visa whilst waiting for the original L renewal to run its appeal course. At this point I assumed (and nobody told me otherwise) that I could continue to work and grow my business until the L visa appeal was over. I could not have been more wrong. I was informed by my Immigration Attorney 5 months after the denial and at 2 week’s notice that I was approaching 180 days over and after the L visa renewal denial date. I was told that I had to depart the US before this date or I would be in violation of US Immigration regulations. Wow!! I decided that I did not want to become an illegal in the US and was still convinced that everything would be sorted out as I had a great business that was still growing at a great rate and providing work for plenty of people. There was nothing marginal about it.
I decided to bring in a manager on a 1099 to look after things. I could still use my lap top and talk to new clients and organize things that way. However, my children had now settled well in school and I really did not want to disturb them whilst waiting for my visa to be sorted (thinking it would only be a matter of a couple of months). This is probably the only thing I did wrong (the school thing). We decided to fly back and forth so as not to overstay our legal status and keep the children in school. This also gave me a chance to keep my eye on the business and protect my interests. At the end of the day, there is only one person that really cares about a business and that is the owner. I spent most of my time speaking to new UK clients on my lap top and doing website work. This was obviously something that I could do from anywhere and I would have been doing if I had been in the UK. I also did a year’s work for another UK Company during the whole of 2005 (UK tax return to prove this).
It took 6 months before the E2 visa package was opened and then it came back asking for more information. I could not believe the time lapses between correspondence and why I was being given so many obstacles to cross as my business was still growing and employing more people all the time. I kept meeting other people who had much smaller businesses (small pool, lawn, pest, management, flower, embroidery businesses) and employing nobody that were all being given E visas on very marginal businesses. I had also met people with L visas that were given renewals on businesses that were not doing anything but allowing someone to live in Florida. I was convinced that it would only be a matter of time before I was approved and issued mine. How wrong could I be?
At this point the business had been running for approximately 18 months and it now had 80 contracts (anyone involved in vacation property management will know that this is an unbelievable growth rate).
It was obvious to me as a business man that by the time my visa would come through that I would need to step up to another level and take charge of the growth of the company completely on its own. It was also obvious that I would need a manager that cared more about the business than just employing a manager who had no vested interest in the business. I needed someone that would be a partner in the business and care about the management service level. There was only one person I could think of that I could trust and new would do the job properly and with the conscientious care required and that was my brother.
Therefore, when my information went back to the authorities, my brother was added to the application as an investor. We decided to send absolutely everything from the business so there would be no more delays through asking for more information. This turned out to be an even bigger mistake. The US authorities in London sent the package back 3 times unopened stating that we had sent too much info. On each occasion it took around 3 months. On each occasion the info was stripped down to make a smaller package. This was another reason for having to be there as I had to keep going into the business records to photocopy all the info that the Immigration required. This alone was turning into a full time effort. By the time they opened the package it had been stripped down to the bare bones. I think they finally acknowledged opening the package in August 2006.
By this time the company had its own pool cleaner + company truck & phone, its own full time maintenance man + company truck & phone and still had the manager in place. The company had approximately 15 people working for it either on W2’s or 1099’s, paying wages of over $250,000 per year.
To sum this company up in terms of what it is doing for the area and the economy:
1) It brings in to the US from the UK around $500,000 per year contributing to the US and local economy
2) It pays out in wages of around $250,000 per year contributing to local economy by providing work for people in the community
3) It pays out around $72500 per year on vehicles, insurance, tags, gas, office supplies, phones etc, contributing to the local economy, US vehicle sales and other national and local businesses
4) It sponsors local children’s sports
5) It contributes to cancer research
6) It brings in US visitors to the Disney area in rentals that the company creates to the properties of around $400,000 per year plus all the money these vacationers spend whilst they are here within the local community (at such places like Disney, Universal, Local Restaurants and other food outlets, supermarkets, gas stations, clothing outlets and many more local businesses).
Once again, the US Immigration Authorities do not have anything in place to help or deal with this kind of situation. Apart from not having anything in the system, they probably just don’t have the resources or/and qualified resources to cope. This does not help the likes of myself and probably many others. Investment and job creation in any area is very important and should not be dismissed very lightly.
THE INTERVIEW AT THE US CONSULATE 19 APRIL 2007
Prior to travelling to the interview, we had asked if there was any specific information or anything else that was required for the interview. The answer was that no other information would be required apart from what was in their previous e mail asking for a number of items including some up to date documents. We brought everything they asked for with us. I even took extra info like the full 80 contracts and power of attorneys to prove these things were in place.
The appointment was set for 10.30am. We arrived at 9.45am and were admitted into the Embassy. By 10.45am we were asked to a window where we were asked to remove all our paperwork from a binder which was all tagged so that it was easy to read so that you could go to each item you would want to view. The papers were now just all in a disorderly pile. Our ID and scanned prints were dealt with and we were given a number (280) to wait to be called. We were free from the window at 11.00am. At 3.00pm (4 hours later) it was looking like we had been forgotten as all the 200’s numbers were being dealt with at window 19 and they had gone well into the 300’s by now. I went back to the original window and asked the question. The young lady went away to find out what had happened. She came back 5 minutes later and told me we would be dealt with next. At 4.00pm, an hour later, I went to another window for re assurance as most of the windows were now closed and there were only a few people left in the building and the last few numbers (598, 599 and 600) were being called. The lady at the window told me that E2 visa interviews sometimes last 3 hours and that we would definitely be seen. We were the very last people called and were sent to window 25, not 19.
The Consulate Officer spent about 20 minutes with us, the first ten being dealt with standard ID etc. His main concern was that I had received money from my business even when I was out of working status. I was not expecting to be asked any type of question about this as I knew I was entitled to ‘Officer Compensation’ as the owner of the business. He disagreed and said that I had been working illegally. He would not look at any of the W2’s and 1099’s that showed employees and kept saying that I was in serious trouble. I tried to dispute what he was saying but he was adamant. I even tried to show him my 2006 UK tax return showing 32,216 pounds earnings as a business consultant to a UK Company which proved that I was not working my US business. He would not even look at it. All my work was done on my lap top as many business men do in this day and age, where ever they are in the world. He failed to recognize that the Company was always fully up to date with payment of its taxes and that tax had been paid on every dollar that I had ever been paid. These documents were presented in the application as part of the financial side of the business as it was all perfectly legal.
The other points he questioned was my brother’s money trail to his investment. This was all documented in front of him, yet he still questioned it. He also said that the business was marginal but if he had read the file properly that would be proved incorrect. He also questioned our UK residency which obviously looked weak due to not owning UK property any more. I had sold mine 3 years previous to finance the US venture. My brother had sold his to finance his investment in the Company. We both still have strong ties to the UK in business partnerships. We both stay with family whilst in the UK and are registered voters and still have bills to pay etc. We both still own vehicles in the UK and have just started another UK business to work in conjunction with the US Company to increase clientele on the Mgt side and have started another advertising campaign on the rental side. This is all in the UK.
He had obviously not read the full file and documentation otherwise he would have seen that this Company was a huge viable concern and that it was complying with all requirements and doing all the right things.
The Consular Officer was really only concerned with the fact that I had received money from my own business. He was adamant that this was illegal and that I had committed a very serious offence.
The interview ended with the Consular Officer handing me a photo copy of a section of the FAM regulations. He had ticked these items for his decision to deny our visa:
1) UK residency
2) Colin’s (my brother) money trail for investment
3) Marginal business
4) Illegally working in the US and claiming wages
He gave us our passports back and said that Colin could re apply with more info attached and that I was in serious trouble and that I would be ineligible to travel to the US indefinitely. He said I would not be allowed to apply for any type of visa for at least 5 years.
He did not give us any kind of official paperwork and did not write or stamp anything in any of our passports. The paper did not have written on it what he had said. The paper read that I could not travel to the US to work until I had a visa that allowed this.
We were the last people to leave the building at 5.20pm.
The US Consulate had had all the E2 application files for months and yet nobody once came back to us to question any of these items or ask for more information. They could have said that the money I was taking was being done technically wrong and asked for it to be changed if this was such an issue. We have never hidden anything and always tried to do everything in the way that it was required. We could have chosen the totally illegal way but did not. We wanted everything to be correct.
It seems that most of the problems here have been caused by the huge delay in processing the application at London. It also appears that both my L visa renewal & my E2 visa application have been dealt with in a most negative way and most severely on small technical matters that could have been rectified by better communication and quicker processing times. I’m sure most businesses don’t change or grow as much as this one has over such a short period of time and perhaps the adjudicators thought there was something suspicious because of that. The fact remains that this business is very real and could become even more special for the community of Davenport, Florida with the 2 owners of the business legally in place (in an executive & managerial position) to care for and nurture with their expertise.
Here is the one thing I most definitely did wrong. I flew back to the US 3 days after the interview and did not declare that I had been refused a visa. I was stopped at security and deported. I am still waiting to find out what the outcome of that will be.
I have tried not to be too negative about the American system as I still believe that it is ‘THE LAND OF OPPORTUNITY & FREEDOM’ & ‘THE AMERICAN DREAM’ is still there for people to grasp and show the world what you can do when given the chance.
However, I am going to finish with my most scathing comments and hope that anyone who reads this does not decide to punish me even further for speaking my own mind.
When I first visited Florida, it was in the October, just after the horrific & tragic 9/11 terrorist attack. The Disney area was virtually deserted. Every theme park we visited, the Americans were cheering us for continuing to visit the area. They said that without our support, the Disney parks would surely have shut down. I believe that the British are still the main contributor to this area of Florida in the form of visiting as Tourists & Property purchasers. This is only helped by the British people that have moved there to work and live. My business proves that. I believe that if every British person sold their Florida properties and businesses & never went back as a tourist to visit, the World of Disney as we all know it, would most definitely cease to exist. It would be a ghost town.
While I was being held in a room by security at Orlando Airport waiting to be deported, the security staff gave me some incite as to their thinking. They said that they wished we (meaning British people) would all go home and that we were not needed there. I was flabbergasted. I told them that they would probably not have a job if it was not for the amount of British people that visited Florida per year.
Has this 4 year experience changed my opinion about the United States of America? Yes, I feel that the Immigration system needs seriously revising. I know that is an ongoing thing with regard to terrorism and quite rightly. However, I feel that I have been cheated out of everything the United States stands for because people and businesses are not given individual attention and dealt with separately on each own merits.
Am I bitter? If I am honest, yes at the moment. I tried to build a new business and life for my wife and children in a faraway place and just when they started to enjoy it and realize what a great thing I did, it was snatched away. It takes a lot of courage, strength, endeavor and resilience to make a change as huge as I did without fully knowing whether it would work. If I had failed in the business then I could have accepted leaving Florida, but not like this.
I do not regret the move I made but am upset that I now have to bring my children away from the environment we lived in and cast them into a new one. It looks like I will be selling my business and starting another new life for me and my family.
To all my friends in Florida, thank you for your support as friends, people and Americans.

Steve

[gazza_tyler]

Amazing story......I found myself getting really angry as I read the post. totally gutted for you and your family.

I am just about to start the whole process and must admit yours is a story that has really got me thinking.

Frustration springs to mind ....the fact that there is no one in power who can look at your case and help !!!!!

Hope things work out for you in UK, and I wouldn't blame you if you basically said stuff Florida.

Garry + Tricia

[v2002]

Hi Steve
What an eye opening post !!!!!Once again it proves that " The immigration system is not only broken but ITS going DOWN THE HILL for legals"
I am so sorry for you and your family but I am sure if you detail all this out and COMPLAINT to the chambers of commerce ( the top) someone will Reopen your case .. look for a good lawer and challange the Decision of this "Crazy power hungry Visa officer"

[Bobby]

Idiotic bureaucracy.

I don't normally get too emotional over other people's stories, probably because I'm normally cynical enough to think that they've not told the whole truth, and they probably did something wrong anyway, .............but your story has made my blood boil, and I feel so sad for you and your family. Not only for the position that you now find yourself, but for the journey that it has taken you on, which could not have been easy.
You admitted that the biggest mistake was not disclosing the visa denial when you re-entered. That has, and will be crucial to your attempts to ever come back. They don't like that, and it's unfortunate that you were pushed into this position, and I understand why you did it. They left you between a rock and a hard place at that time.
This post is a great lesson for anyone who thinks they've got it made. It just shows that the system is as fickle as ever and our time is fragile in this land of the "free" ??
Thank you for posting. It must have taken guts to tell your story, and I am grateful that you have shared it.

Bobby

[Munish]

Wow! I don't what to say to that. I am flabbargasted.

I'm sure others will be able to provide much more practicle advice than I can. I have to say, in terms of any negative attitude you have of the USA, is to make a distinction between the immigration process and the USA generally. One is complete shambles and the other is not.

All I can say I have complete empathy. While I have not suffered the economic loss you have I had to major problems with the USCIS in 2003, which cost me over $40,000 in lost wages and forced me live couch to couch until this was finally sorted, and because of complete and utter incompetence of its staff - which cleary has not changed one little bit. The error took five months to rectify (which I guess I should be "thankful" for), but there was no compenation as a result of the USCIS error. Right now I am yet again dealing USCIS incompetence once again because of an issue with an immigrant visa which they have dealt with in error. I cannot believe how rediculous they are and like others am also rage-filled at your treatment and their lack of ability to see things on "case-by-case" basis.

Aside from the rant about USCIS stupidity (without having mentioned the blatant POE racism in your case), it seems the worst option is for you to wait five years and try again.

If there is a better solution, other members will be better positioned to advise you. Unfortunately I don't even think you have a right to sue in the Federal courts.

[tracifrost]

hi steve, what an absolute disgrace!!!
never mind appealing, i dont know about you but to sAY this would leave a sour taste in my mouth is an understatement.
As for the American Dream, it does exist for some people but i have said before on this forum there are over 100 million americans who are NOT living that American Dream.
Although you mentioned your children, i have a four year old daugher and she is settled here. but believe me children are so versatile even more so than us adults that your children will settle again.
Its also a good idea to look at your recent events as not only experience but a learning curve, that perhaps after all said and done, you are just NOT meant to be here at this time. (i know some members will think im a nutcase here) but honestly the guy at the embassy that looked at you and judged you, may have just done you the biggest favour!!!!
As for us british boosting the economy, the majority of the Americans dont see this, why? because they simply dont want to.
Or let us british take recoqnition for things us brits create etc,
hence the reason that B.P (british petroleum) is called BEYOND PETROLEUM here. and that the BBC (british broadcasting corporation) is called
WorldWide America here.
but its not the everyday americans fault, its just that they are brainwashed into thinking that America is the only land of opportunity or the only land that exists for that matter!!!!
It seems sometimes that this country is more controlled than China!!!!

[timjotom]

Hi Steve and Family,

I have read your story and feel so sorry for your situation.

Your story makes me so nervous about moving to the States and all the red tape and hoops we have to go through again and again.

I also hope that things work out for you in the UK.

Joanne

[Munish]

hence the reason that B.P (british petroleum) is called BEYOND PETROLEUM here. and that the BBC (british broadcasting corporation) is called WorldWide America here.

What!

[tracifrost]

Munish I Know I Can Go On But Thats A Start!!!
No Wonder Why They Think They Create Everything.

[v2002]

hi steve,
Or let us british take recoqnition for things us brits create etc,
hence the reason that B.P (british petroleum) is called BEYOND PETROLEUM here.
Sorry tracifrost you got your facts WRONG .Here is that is reality.....

Despite its name, the British Petroleum brand was originally created by a German firm as a way of marketing its products in Britain. During the war, the British government seized the company’s assets, and the Public Trustee sold them to Anglo-Persian in 1917

http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9014441&contentId=7027521
Pl. read this for history if intrested:D

[DEE F]

While I was being held in a room by security at Orlando Airport waiting to be deported, the security staff gave me some incite as to their thinking. They said that they wished we (meaning British people) would all go home and that we were not needed there. I was flabbergasted. I told them that they would probably not have a job if it was not for the amount of British people that visited Florida per year.

Hi Steve first and foremost there is an ombudsman that you can contact about the people at POE,wish I had known about it when they did what they did to my daughter ,but that is another story.

I to am absolutely appalled at your story,the thing about your childrem being in school,this is definately a big no no as far as I know,can anyone clarify on here whether or not the consular people actually can tell when your children are in school in the USA????????????????the other thing that stands out is the fact that you took on sub-contractors,we were categorically told we had to employ our own staff not subs,again this is an easy mistake to make,what appals me even more is the fact that a business the size of yours would have done so much to boost the economy,it beggars belief to think that all we work and strive for can be taken off us in a heartbeat,can you not get a B Visa to come back in to tie up loose ends,you say you where deported,or where you refused entry apparently there is a difference,they do put you very much in a catch22 situation ,they tell you you cannot come back into US without a visa,then refuse to give you one,unbeleivable,I cant think of anything else to write at this minute I am so mad,I ask myself the question time and time again why the hell do any of us bother,why not all become illegal we will then get all the help we need,joke absolute bloody joke,dont tqke this lying down Steve fight your cause,let the whole world know if necessarry that they cannot keep treating us as second class citizens,and as for that remark at POE,tell it to the British Media its about time someone did,how dare they treat us like something the cat has dragged in,once again Steve I am so heartily sorry for you and your family,this is another classic example of why we have to landlock ourselves,could be any one of us this happened to,turn this negative into a posite and stand your ground with them,we will all be behind you I am sure:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: Take care


Dee xxx

[tracifrost]

V2002, yes i know the history of BP thanks to the C.E.O i met with the guy and he told me the history of B.P and its founding etc zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
at their headquarters in Milton Keynes, just over a year ago as they are our clients in the UK.
But the fact remains it is still BRITISH PETROLEUM because it was taken by the British as you say during the war,that was due to the UK running out of money, not what is commonly believed.
which hypes back to my orignal post that here it is lead to believe the company is called BEYOND PETROLEUM. when clearly it is not

[DEE F]

V2002, yes i know the history of BP thanks to the C.E.O i met with the guy and he told me the history of B.P and its founding etc zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
at their headquarters in Milton Keynes, just over a year ago as they are our clients in the UK.
But the fact remains it is still BRITISH PETROLEUM because it was taken by the British as you say during the war,that was due to the UK running out of money, not what is commonly believed.
which hypes back to my orignal post that here it is lead to believe the company is called BEYOND PETROLEUM. when clearly it is not

Hi Traci,sorry I am totally baffled here dont understand your post ,what has BP got to do with Steve getting his visa denied:confused: :confused:

Dee xx

[v2002]

which hypes back to my orignal post that here it is lead to believe the company is called BEYOND PETROLEUM. when clearly it is not
I don't know traci who believe in what the company is called.
Because in India the group was called "Bharat Petroleum".Under the Global contract the same company operates under a New name which is agreeable under the contract with that govt. of that country where the business is operational.
Sometimes the names are reflection of touching the citizens local chords to make them feel the company belongs to them(as you know many people resent foreign businesses) another advertisement strategy.
Its not that the citizens of that country change the name.
Bottom line Americans did not change the name its the BP group who operate under the different name.

I do not know what kind of business you have------ but I am sure you would agree with me that I can not name your business .... Its you who name your establishment.. and its again upto you to have the same business operations under two new names in two countries.

Regarding BBC... its called BBC world services which is again the name established by BBC group not americans.:D

[tracifrost]

:confused:
well if you read my very first reply to steves post you will see!
then you will see where and my reasons for mentioning BP in the first place,
then you will see a reply from MUNISH to the BP thing, then you will see your input and interpretation on BP then finally my last reply
dont worry V2002 all is forgiven

[JulieC]

Our L1 renewal was also turned down, was also in property management, I have to say it is a hard business to get renewals in at the moment.
One question begs, and that is why your attorney did not file for 1-140/485 as soon as your L1 went into appeal. I have known a lot of people do that and get the green card long before they ever get their L1 appeal decision back. It didnt work for me but that is a different story, i know it can work and was a much more obvious line to take than filing for E2.

Keeping kids in school on a visa waiver is a no no and they are very clued up now about that ( they do seem to know) and about people travelling back and forth on visa waiver overseeing a business. Have heard of at least two people turned down recently who were doing this because they were accused of working. I dont think you are supposed to draw anything from the business while on visa waiver, we stopped as soon as our L1 was denied.
As regards employing subbies, they are not keen on this on L1 unless you are in trades like construction where there is a big problem with employing people because of workers comp. USCIS should not have accepted a business plan to do this if they were going to turn you down further along the line on this, but the truth is they tightened up considerably over the period that we were both on L1, in our case they gave us an L1 as being an affiliated company of a UK company and then turned us down on L1 renewal/140 application 12 months later on the grounds that we were not affiliated companies. One hand doesnt know what the other is doing and the poor visa holder loses out.

We also considered keeping trading using a manager but decided instead that an L1 appeal took too long and had such a poor success rate that it wasnt worth waiting for and chose to sell up and leave when things started to go wrong. Our wheels were off the tracks by then and once they are off the tracks it is very difficult to get them back on. We dont seem to have suffered any detriment as our son managed to get an F1 through the London embassy to finish his US degree with no problems and we have also been back in on visa waiver for a visit, again no problems. We have been living in another far off land for a while but are hoping to come back to Florida in the near future, likely on E2 or EB5.
I do sympathise at the things that have happened to you. We had a good business too and it does hurt when you see others with worse businesses than yours roar through renewal and on to green card and you are floundering for no apparent reason but their wheels are still on the tracks. I would question some of the decisions your attorney made in this case as you seem to have been poorly advised. Good luck with selling your business and i hope your kids soon settle back into life in the UK.

[tracifrost]

Julie C thats exactly what i have been hearing for L1's !!!!
the renewal is denied but then applicants apply for a greencard and that is approved??? doesnt make sense does it, lets hope somone on here with more experience and understanding on visas can shed some light on this one!
im interested also to know why a renewal is denied but a greencard approved.

[DEE F]

:confused:
well if you read my very first reply to steves post you will see!
then you will see where and my reasons for mentioning BP in the first place,
then you will see a reply from MUNISH to the BP thing, then you will see your input and interpretation on BP then finally my last reply
dont worry V2002 all is forgiven Hi Traci,dont want this to turn into something it shouldnt here,all i am saying is that i personally didnt see the connection to the very harrowing post from Steve,I did see the connection to your response to V2002,in asking for forgiveness,is this because he corrected your error I dont know,my point is and all it is was what was the connection between the two posts, if I am coming across as stupid, honestly I really couldnt see it,that is all.

Dee x

[JulieC]

Traci, regarding being turned down for L1 but approved for green card, they are handled by different departments using different criteria plus another officer looks at it so it is another pair of eyes. I know it is weird but I have heard of a few cases where it has worked and it has to be worth tryng though i have to say in our case, it unfortunately didnt work ((maybe the same officer had switched departments!)

[v2002]

Julie C thats exactly what i have been hearing for L1's !!!!
the renewal is denied but then applicants apply for a greencard and that is approved??? doesnt make sense does it, lets hope somone on here with more experience and understanding on visas can shed some light on this one!
im interested also to know why a renewal is denied but a greencard approved.
I know its a wrong spot to have this thread here .( Dee). with that said :D
I will respond to this thread..........
When L1's the renewal is denied but then applicants apply for a greencard and that is approved???.........Its not Correct .

When L1 is denied and its under appeal... and the Gc process is also started and it gets approved based on the appeal....But when the appeal is denied the GC is DEEMED to be denied too irrespective of its approval earlier.

The original application remains the basis of GC approval if that is denied everything else related to it that got approved is NULL & VOID Thats the LAW.

[tracifrost]

exactly dee, so dont turn it into something it isnt!!
now for my reply to V2002 i wasnt asking for his forgiveness at all. there is one interpretation on a company that differs from mine, different paths but they both lead to the same place eventually. or should do.

[SHEILA 13]

Steve,Sorry to read your story.

[v2002]

exactly dee, so dont turn it into something it isnt!!
now for my reply to V2002 i wasnt asking for his forgiveness at all. there is one interpretation on a company that differs from mine, different paths but they both lead to the same place eventually. or should do.
With all due respect traci...Your interpretation on the company was as if the Americans have hijacked the name of the company .. which I explained was not true.
No wonder Munish was like "What"?
You ofcourse don't need to ask for anyones forgiveness for a silly post .
Least of all mine !!!!!!
I think what you meant was to use word "forgotten" instead of "forgiven":D

P.S.Lets moove on and STICK TO reply on ORIGINAL POST:angel:

[tracifrost]

V2002 let us not forget, that this is first and foremost an immigration forum.
so now i will say forgive me V2002 if this is not the case but sounds as though you have done a quick google search on BP, bought up their homepage, had a quick read on the very Brief history of BP and gone on from there. What you read is purely for the consumers benefit. If that was the case, why such comanies like HSBC use the name HSBC the world over, Bank of America the same again etc.

so lets move on.

[Munish]

Okay, leave it already. It's detracting from the point of the thread, which is a high quality one! And don't respond to this either. Just leave this about visa denials and the consquences for the business owners, and not about BP this and BP that.

[byjove]

Steve, for once, I HAVE NOTHING TO SAY! How can I? Nothing can heal how you are feeling, nothing! But what a complete B******D at Orlando Airport, how dare he!!????

I have a park near me with a trash can and the words and a picture "save the World!" ONLY America is pictured!!! SAY NO MORE!!!!

[byjove]

But on our entry we were told by the very nice (and very few) immigration officer, that, there was an easier way to get over here! To swim the rio grande, hide for 6 months then apply for USC

[chris]

Can I just say that this is one of those stories that needs to be highlighted in big 6 foot high illuminated letters, ideally on the property that faces the London Embassy, for all to see. America does a similar thing at its US embassy in Cuba to send it's message of how it feels about Castro.
I also believe that as a seperate item you should complain in the strongest terms to Condy about the attitude of the POE staff you had to endure. it has already been reported elsewhere that Europeans travelling to the US has fallen by at least 14% and State dept have openly admitted that this is a direct result of the 'welcome' that POE staff give people entering the US. I presume there will come a time soon when the POE staff realise when they are stood around empty arrival halls twiddling their fingers why the people stopped coming. By that time it will be too late, but thankfully thier jobs will disappear shortly after and they can stand in line and be treated like s**t by the unemployment staff (I would love to see that).
Anyway, they say as one door closes, another one opens. Look upon it as their loss not yours. Stay strong, stay positve and build - for your kids sake, a better life for you all elsewhere, where your efforts, hardwork and money are more appreciated. And if you make lots of dough, invest it not in Exxon but BP (bloody petrol).... please!!!!

[Sharon]

Steve, so sorry to hear about your story, what can anyone say just wish we could afford to higher a hot air thingy and have it dangle over the American embassy saying a--holes

[DEE F]

Steve, so sorry to hear about your story, what can anyone say just wish we could afford to higher a hot air thingy and have it dangle over the American embassy saying a--holes
Hi Sharon, great idea ,and then dangle it over the Whitehouse with same message:mad:

Dee xx

[Tina]

I was going to say this is unbelievable what happened to Steve, but actually it's not (unbelievable). The more I hear and read about the treatment doled out to non-immigrant visa applicants (particularly E2) the more I wonder why anyone continues to fight tooth and nail to get to the USA. I know, it's easy for me to say because I'm already here, but I just can't get my head around what's so special about this country that you have to put up with this treatment. I'm just coming up to my one year anniversary of living here, and in my opinion, the USA "ain't all that".

Steve, it's their loss, and I'm so sorry for what happened to you.

Interestingly, I have an American friend who told me the POE officers at OIA are mostly part-time workers who earn minimum wage. Maybe a touch of the green eyed monster amongst some of them who see us Brits doing well financially over here?

[tracifrost]

TINA what an absolute brilliant answer, i was wondering when someone was going to pipe up and tell it like it is.
Yeah thinking about it, from a holiday point of view its paradise, but when you live here you see it as a country thats not so far advanced, etc after all.

[JulieC]

I know of at least two people who have adjusted status while under L1 appeal and got their green cards. Neither ever got their L1 appeal back, it can take 18 months, and as they already got their green cards in that time, they were told by their attorney their appeal was now irrelevant All i know is that what is happening on the ground.

[v2002]

I know of at least two people who have adjusted status while under L1 appeal and got their green cards. Neither ever got their L1 appeal back, it can take 18 months, and as they already got their green cards in that time, they were told by their attorney their appeal was now irrelevant All i know is that what is happening on the ground.
Yes julie you are right ... but the appeal is irrelevant only if it does not come back as denial ...
Normally appeal process is stipulated with a timeframe of 18 months ... if its still pending the applicant can fight back, as greencard process was completed while the appeal was still pending.
It does not automatically go away ..But If USCIS see's that the Gc was obtained without disclosing that the appeal was pending ....THEY WILL REVOKE THE GC. as its considered to commit a fraud.

[peter gold]

I have every sympathy for you. It seems you have been badly advised a number of times.
The worst thing you did was failing to disclose the refusal of the E2 visa, and you will face a bar to enter the US by whatever means for I believe 5 years.
You have to remember the guy in the uniform at the port of entry has all the powers, and can refuse admission even if you have a valid visa. This blows any rights you have a way.
You can still own the business in the US but I am afradi to say will not be able to visit it for sometime.
Thank you for posting as it will serve as a warning to others who will not accept this is their country not ours, they make th erules ,enforce them and all we can do is obey them, or, as Sussie and her team are doing try and change them.
What has happened to the kids? Are they still here?

[Kriz1]

Not a lot to say really.....its a sad story...glad you got around to posting it...and I hope it helps others....

[Tarlena Jenkins]

Scared and tearful here.... feeling so sad for you.... Into our extension of L1... green card application imminent....I only want a settled life for my kids ( 2 here, 2 in U.K) U.K kids thier own choice admittedly.... never know whats around the corner

[Bobby]

I have every sympathy for you. It seems you have been badly advised a number of times.
The worst thing you did was failing to disclose the refusal of the E2 visa, and you will face a bar to enter the US by whatever means for I believe 5 years.
You have to remember the guy in the uniform at the port of entry has all the powers, and can refuse admission even if you have a valid visa. This blows any rights you have a way.
You can still own the business in the US but I am afradi to say will not be able to visit it for sometime.
Thank you for posting as it will serve as a warning to others who will not accept this is their country not ours, they make th erules ,enforce them and all we can do is obey them, or, as Sussie and her team are doing try and change them.
What has happened to the kids? Are they still here?

Spelcheck is thier for everyone.
Pleeze clikk it befoour you submitt yure posts. It onlie takes about 5 seconds, and saves everione from thinkking that you done know howw to speele.

[floridapete]

Steve, Please check your p.m. inbox. I have sent you a pm.

[Craney]

Steve,
Really sorry to hear about your experience, thank you for sharing it. I think there may be a few people who are trying to make it to Florida who never even consider for one moment that they may be accused of working their business, even though they are not and have proof to show it, as in your case.
I know of people out on B visas who did not want to go down the B2-E2 change of status route (as it appears the Embassy look upon this negatively)so they bought a business straight off the bat and put a manager in charge. They then applied for their E-2 through the 'normal route' but are out in Florida for a few months anyway. They are NOT working the business and are waiting for application to go through and are hoping for an interview date in the very near future.
I will forward them this post to warn them of some pitfalls ahead. Has anyone any ideas how they would be able to prove they weren't working? They will obviously be back in the UK before their interview dates come back as their B visa will expire (unless there is a miracle and visas take 8 weeks to process!) so that must work in their favour.

Any thoughts?

Craney

[punky]

Amazing.... Thanx very much for sharing...

Its a shame its over, but maybe if your experiences can help just one other person, it wouldn't be all in vain.

Again, many thanx for sharing.

[lorraine]

Hi Steve and family I am so sorry to hear about all you have been through. I wish you all the luck in the world in whatever you decide to do.

Good luck kindest regards Lorraine

[Bobby]

Craney,

I don't know that there are any answers to this.

It seems as if the interviewing officer had made up his mind and wasn't interested in looking at the tax returns and evidence to prove this and that. It appears that he dismissed it and made up his own ideas of what was happening in the business.
....and so late in the day too.
As we all do, when something isn't understood by someone in front of us, we like to see who's next in charge, or further up their hierarchy. It's a shame that the immigration process doesn't give us this avenue. Claiming that they are busy enough without having to look over denied cases. I understand the reasoning to a certain degree, but clearly in this case, you would like another set of eyes to see the file, or at the very least listen to the further evidence.

Bobby

[peter gold]

Bobby,
I don't take downloads from sites I don't know.
I can spell, just can't type.
I think most forum members can recognise a typo from a misspelled word.

[Bobby]

yeah sorry Peter.
It wasn't even funny was it! :)
My bad!

[peter gold]

No ofense takin

[peter gold]

no problem

[lorraine]

Hey I cant spell but can type. Bobby I tried that spell check and it doesnt work ???? Help!!!!!xx

[Kriz1]

Hey I cant spell but can type. Bobby I tried that spell check and it doesnt work ???? Help!!!!!xx

You can get one for IE...it will be downloaded to tools...you can get it from windows update page....it will do a spell check on any page....

[McSporran]

Hi Steve,
I'm sorry for you and the situation you find yourselves in - and I wish you all the luck in the world for your next move.
It does seem however that you have been very badly advised not least by your attorney - where's that "protection" for you that the Florida Bar is supposed to offer???
Whilst you undoubtably now regret not declaring your visa denial at the point of entry - again did your attorney offer any support on what and how you should proceed? Or were you left "high and dry" once the attorney wasn't getting more money from you?
You may be able to appeal in terms of arguing "bad advice"??
But I can understand if you just want to move on mate.
Again I wish you the very best of luck for the future.

[Munish]

Speaking generally I will say, just because you are lawyer it does not mean you are competent. As long as you take a few courses you remain an active member of the State bar.

When you look for a lawyer do not simply look at the fact they are admitted to the Bar (because all lawyers have to be to practice anyway) and do not simply settle for the fact they are members of AILA. Again that means very little except they most likely practice immigration law.

If you can look at their practice history and see if you can get references as would for others such as builders etc.

I would tend to go for a practice with many lawyers that has been established for many years rather than sole practices where they have less resources and are not diligent on keeping up to date on immigration law.

To you Steve, if you want to go the USA you will but this is not your time yet. I'm sure you're made of some tough stuff (you have to be to deal with what you have) and rebound.

[InnVic]

personally my experience of "lawyers" has left me thinking I'd rather save my money and be responsible for my own destiny. I've been given too much "bum" advice from the so called 'experts" that I figure if I do my own research then I can do at least as well - if not better job than they can do. Immigration process is NOt rocket science....but you do need to be aware of all the little idosyncracies and read the small print and instructions carefully. It can give you a sense of security by using a s called professional - but in practice most of the work is filing and done by an office junior. They still take your money if they screw up and I've yet to find one that was proactive...they will respond if you ask the right questions but will rarely offer constructive advice. I seriously think Steve has been badly treated by both the immigration system and his attorney. He should have some avenue for recompense - but we all know that this is unlikely to happen. Steve you seem like a hard worker and I know that whatever you set your mind to in future will be a great success. Sometimes I do believe these setbacks are for a reason (call it destiny) it may seem like hell at present but in a few years when you look back on this you'll probably be glad of the lucky escape! I wish you all the best mate.

[bam]

Steve

Just read your post and like everyone else I am gob smacked.

I can not get over your story and also how you were spoken to.
Its a disgrace.

Our dream too is also over after spending time, effort and money but certainly didnt go through the pain you have endured.
I wish something could be done re the system (or lack of it) and as far as I am concerned they can stick it - the arrogant b*stards!!

Sorry- but I feel better now!!!

I sincerely hope that you build your lives up again

[Carol]

I was amazed when I read your story, My story is much the same as yours with slight differences, I thought we where the only ones !!! something has to change and change soon, I am still caught up in this night mare, I have attached my story, good luck in your future in what ever happens.
Carol
In February / March 2004 my husband and my self sat down to discuss the expansion of my retail kitchen company, I didn’t want to expand any further in the UK. Having lived and worked in Florida in 1995 for 9months (my husband worked I looked after our son who was a baby), we knew the area and after some research decided that it was what we wanted, so we contacted a visa consultant in the UK and set the wheels in motion, In June 2004 I travelled to Florida to do some research, met with an accountant, and an Attorney I incorporated my U.S company although I couldn’t trade until I had my visa. Upon my return to the UK I did necessary business plans, and collating information regarding my UK Company, i.e. tax returns, bank statements, end of year accounts etc. by December everything was prepared and was all sent to Texas along with application.
On the 10th February 2005 visas where approved, the approval was posted on the internet, on USCIS web site, stating that we should receive approval notice within 14 days, as soon as we receive the approval notice we where to book an appointment to go to London Embassy for an Interview, when we hadn’t received the approval notice by the 28th Feb 05 our attorney contacted Texas, who said it had been sent. We waited another week then our attorney contacted Texas again yet again they said it had been sent our attorney told us London had been notified she down loaded the approval from the internet and we booked an appointment to go to London Embassy on the 17th March 05. When we arrived at the U.S Embassy the lady behind the counter refused to deal with us without our approval notice, so we left the embassy not very happy, as it is not cheap to go to London and stay over night. We live quite a long way from the Embassy and had to be there for 8.30am for a 9.00am appointment. So I rang our attorney who told me she would get on to Texas again. Eventually we found out that the approval notice had been sent to the attorney’s office, but to London England, not London Ontario Canada, so had been returned undelivered and resent out, but nobody seemed to know where it had been sent to ! After a lot of phone calls I managed to track it down it had been sent to my business premises in the USA (which I might ad I have to pay rent on but can’t trade out of till I have my visa ?) I managed to get my realtor to go to premises and then FedEx to me in the UK. I then booked for us all to go to London Embassy again, on the 18th April 05 earliest date available.
This is where the fun really began, me, my son (11) and my daughter (18) where issued our visas. But we where informed that Chris would not be able to have his at this point in time as there was legal problem in the US and he would have to have his fingerprints sent to Washington to be checked against their computer system, we were then charged £60 for him to have his fingerprints taken, when we inquired how long it would take to clear up we were informed 3 weeks. We returned home feeling confident that everything would be cleared up within 3 weeks, so continued with our plans we had already planned for Chris to travel to U.S on the Friday the 22nd April 05, as I had to make sure everything was in place with my UK company for my absence, we had seen a house on the internet for rent and one of us needed to view it, I also wanted some papers from my U.S Attorney. (May I note at London they made it sound like no big deal quite routine)
On the 22nd of April 05 my husband travelled to Florida, he flew into Sanford International Airport mid afternoon, on inspection of his passport at immigration he was asked when had he applied for his visa and why had he travelled to USA before his visa was granted, he informed the officer why he was in the U.S. He was then taken into an office and told to wait until someone came to deal with him, he waited around 15minutes then an immigration officer X came and moved him into another office and began asking him questions regarding his visit, he repeated the information he had given to previous immigration officer. Officer X then informed him there was a warrant out for his arrest issued by Orange County Sheriff’s department, which he found unbelievable, he then asked officer X what the warrant was for he said he didn’t Know, but Chris would have to be detained at the Airport until the Orange County Sheriff’s department could collect him. He was then led away to another larger room where he was told to empty his pockets so he could be searched, this he did. He was then left again for another hour until Officer X returned he then started to ask him more questions, such as what was he doing in the US in 1995?, what was his address?, where did he do his shopping?. Chris answered his questions. He was then informed that a warrant had been issued for fraudulently obtaining goods. He was shocked to hear this as he informed the officer there must be a mistake! As he has never knowingly, written a bad cheque in his life. Officer X then left the room again locking the door behind him. Officer X returned around 30 minutes later and asked him once again where he used to do his shopping, to which Chris told him Winn Dixie, Food Lion, and sometimes Publix. He then asked if he had ever shopped at a store called Albertson’s and Chris told him to the best of his knowledge no. Officer X then left the room again, he returned later to ask yet again questions he had asked before, he asked what Chris did when he was in the U.S before? And who did he work for in 1995 ? Chris answered his questions, he informed officer Davis he worked for a gentleman in the UK called C H, who had offered him an opportunity to work in the U.S. For Mr H and his partner A B (Both gentlemen where English) Mr H procured the visas for Chris and myself although mine wasn’t a working visa as I had a young baby and stayed at home with my son. After we had been in the U.S a short time Mr H and Mr B fell out, and Mr B left the company, Chris also left the employment of Mr H in Sept 1995, as Chris did not like Mr H’s business practices some of which he thought bordered on the criminal, and at this juncture we returned back to the UK. The exact date I am unsure of as it was 10 years ago, but I am sure this information can be ascertained from immigrations records. Officer X then left my husband in the room again, he returned later and took him to yet another office where he told him the arrest warrant was not serious and after consulting with Orange County Sheriff’s department he was going to release him, but that Chris must sort this problem out with the warrants office as soon as possible, Chris then asked the Officer what did he have to do to sort it out ? Officer X told him to go to the warrant’s office on the Monday, Chris agreed to do this and asked him for the address Officer X gave him the address and a map with directions of the Office in Orlando. He then spent another 45 minutes having his fingerprints taken so immigration had a copy for future use. He was then escorted out of airport building by immigration supervisor and told he was free to go but he had to make sure he sorted the problem or he would be in a lot of trouble if he ever came back to the USA.
My husband then left Sanford Airport and went straight to Deltona where he booked into the Deltona Inn too distressed to leave his room till the Sunday when he travelled to Orlando and booked into a hotel near the address Officer X had given him on the Friday evening. At 8.30am Monday morning he arrived at the address Officer X had given him for the warrants office, he then tried to gain entry only to find the doors where locked, assuming that nobody started work until 9.00am he returned to his car and waited, he returned to the building at 9.00am, 9.30am and again at 10.00am only to find the building still locked, he then went to the building next door to enquire what time it would open, he was then informed nobody had occupied the building for twelve months, not knowing what to do he rang me I then went on to the Internet to find an address for the Orange County Sheriff’s Department, which I gave to my husband he then went to Sheriff’s Department he arrived there at 10.45am he went to the reception and explained he had been sent by US Immigration as there was a warrant out for his arrest, and he was there to try to sort the problem out. The receptionist made a few phone calls then informed him, he would not be able to sort it at that office he was to go to another office she gave him an address the other side of Orlando. He was surprised upon arrival there to find that it was a correctional facility and he was quite nervous on walking into the main building to enquire where he should go in order to seek help in sorting out the problem, after explaining why he was there to the lady on reception she a directed him to building at the entrance of the complex, when he arrived in the building he explained yet again to the lady on reception why he was there she took his all details and proof of ID ( Passport & social security Number ) details of his residence in 1995, she then put all his information into the computer to retrieve the warrant, after 10 minutes she returned to explain she couldn’t find any warrant issued by Orange County Sheriffs department in his name and date of birth, she told him to try Volusia County Sheriffs department as that was his place of residence, at this time another officer arrived a D/S V and was asked by the first officer if she could find him on the computer, my husband then explained yet again what the problem was, Officer V then took over from first officer, after a further 30 minutes of searching and asking more questions such as what my husband did for a living in 1995, where did he do his shopping, and when did he return to the UK, Officer V told my husband that there was defiantly no warrant out for his arrest ! By the Orange County Sheriff’s department, and it was another Chris they where looking for. On hearing this news he was greatly relieved, he then asked the Office if she could give him that information in writing so that he could go back to Sanford airport and give this information to Immigration, unfortunately she informed him that she was not allowed to do that but she would give him her card to give to Officer X at Sanford and ask him to call her. Feeling extremely relieved he immediately returned to Sanford airport to relay the information. Officer X informed him that he would call D/S V later that day and seemed quite pleased that he had sorted the problem out. He then escorted my husband out of the airport and wished him an enjoyable stay whilst he was in the US. I would like to stress that at this point my husband was treated firmly but with a level politeness and respect and U.S Immigration showed a good level of professionalism.
He then spent the next few days collecting various information I had asked him to collect, i.e. articles of association from my attorney, he also went to view a house I had seen on the internet to rent, in the area of Florida I wanted to be based. The house was just right for the family now feeling confident that all the legal problems where sorted I agreed with my husband to go ahead and place rental deposit of $1995 requested by realtor, the only stipulation that the owner requested was that we move in on the 18th May 05 which we agreed to. On Friday the 29th April 05 my husband returned to the UK, with confidence that everything was sorted and his visa would be issued in the immediate future.
Upon his return to the UK we informed the U.S Embassy London what had happened in the U.S hoping that the information we gave them would help with his visa application, meanwhile I started to get everything ready for the move I booked flights for myself and my son on the 14th May 05 ( my daughter is finishing her college course in the UK, I had moved her into her own Flat, she is due to come and join us in October). My son and I travelled on the 14th May expecting my husband to follow within a week or two. Five weeks later following numerous letters, Faxes sent by my husband and our attorney to the U.S Embassy London only to be told case needs further investigation, both myself, my son & my husband were totally fed up with the situation and were missing one and other, I needed help buying a car as renting was getting very expensive and fathers day was coming up we decided that he should come and visit for a week. He arranged a flight for Friday the 17th June 05 returning to the UK Friday the 24th June 05, we also thought it would be a good idea to inform Officer X of Sanford Immigration when he would be arriving so he didn’t have to go through the same procedure as last time. Friday the 10th June he managed to get hold of Officer X to inform him when he would be arriving. At this point Officer X informed him that when he was in Florida before, and had gone to Orange County Sheriff’s department they had put the wrong name in the computer they had put his First and middle name not his full name ? And there was still a warrant out for his arrest ! We found this very hard to believe as he handed over his passport and social security card to Officer V. My husband then rang Orange County Sheriff’s Department and asked to speak to D/S V, only to be told she was on leave at this point in time, he explained the situation to the lady on the phone and she put him through to Officer L, he was quite helpful he ran the details through his computer to obtain details of the warrant, he told him it was for a bad check, which was only a misdemeanour he would get a fine. Chris explained that he was planning to travel to the U.S on the 17th to visit us, he then asked what could he do to sort it prior to his arrival. Officer L said the best thing would be for him to give me his information and for me to try and sort it, which Chris did. I rang numerous times to speak to Officer L but kept missing him, I was put through to an Officer R who was very helpful, he told me the warrant was issued in 1996 and gave me the case number CR 96******, he told me to ring the State Attorneys Office and they would be able to tell me who issued the warrant, I then rang the State Attorneys Office they told me it was an Albertson’s store ( I don’t remember us ever shopping at Albertson’s, but it was 10 years since we left the states) the check was for $295.90 and was issued in 1996, I then informed them we left the states in September 1995 they said well that was when the warrant was issued not necessarily when the check was written. They gave me the number for the Store. I rang Albertson’s and was put through to a gentleman called R, I explained the situation to him he told me they had no record as they used a check reference agency he gave me the number for the agency they used called Telecheck. I rang telecheck they told me they didn’t deal with Albertson’s in 1995/1996. So I rang Albertson’s again I spoke with the Store manager D, this time as R was unavailable, they gave me another number for a company called commercial check control, they said they dealt with Albertson’s in 1996 but had no record of the check. So I rang the store again and spoke to D the store manager, he put me on to a girl called L who informed me she would call another store and then call me back. She called back with the number for another check company this time the number didn’t exist, so I rang the store again and spoke to D the store manager, who said sorry he didn’t have anymore numbers and couldn’t help me any further as they had no record of the check !! I rang Officer R again of Orange County Sheriff’s Department he advised me that he couldn’t do anything I would have to ring State Attorneys Office again. So I rang the State Attorneys Office again the lady there was very helpful she suggested I went to the store with case number and all the information I have and try and resolve the situation in store, if the store was unable to find records of the check then to get a letter from them stating that so Chris could take the letter before a judge. So the following day I went to the store and spoke with both R and D the Store manager who asked me to leave it with him for an hour, which I did, when I returned an hour later he informed me they had made lots of phone calls and he was going to do me a letter as they could find no record of the check. I then rang Chris and informed him that I had a letter, as I couldn’t pay it as nobody had a record of the check.
With everything that had been done over the past week and in the knowledge that U.S immigration department knew that my husband had tried to sort everything the last time he was in the U.S, we assumed that he would be detained at airport for a short time then released but have to appear at Sheriff’s office. ( How wrong could we have been )
On the 17th June 05 my husband flew into Sanford Orlando Airport, I went to airport before his plane was due to land to speak to Officer X and show him letter, when I arrived I asked for Officer X, a lady came out to see me, I explained my husband was coming in on the next flight, she said they knew and as soon as he lands we will be arresting him & to take my son home, I explained what I had been doing all week and that we had tried to sort it she said “madam, your husband had ample opportunity to sort it last time he was in the U.S” to which I explained what had happened last time he was over, she didn’t seem interested and told me there was nothing she could do I should take my son home! I was dumfounded, I started to walk away then decided to stop and have a cigarette, I had been stood there a few minutes when my son informed me the lady was walking towards me with another officer, I turned around and was met by the Lady officer and a male officer who introduced himself as officer X. They asked me to ask my son to stand where he couldn’t hear the conversation! Officer X then informed me yet again that my husband would be arrested and sent to Seminole County correctional facility, and it would be best if my son didn’t see his father arrested, I tried to explain that I had tried sorting it all week and if they hadn’t told Chris it wasn’t him last time he was over he would have sorted it then, he wasn’t interested, he told me Officers from the Sheriff’s department had gone to meet my husband off the plane. He then said “ I was bloody annoyed when I found out they had put his name in the computer wrong” “ This time he is going to sheriff’s Department he will be there till Monday, I told your husband last time he was here not to fly in on a Friday” I then asked what I could do, he said there was nothing I could do, my husband would be held by sheriff’s department till Monday, his Bail was $10,000. “I said fine if I post his bail he would be released this evening”? He then said “what you will pay it!” to which I replied yes!” But then said he would try and let me and my son see my husband for 5 minutes prior to him going to sheriff’s department, and to wait where I was. I then rang Officer R at Orange County Sheriff’s Department, he explained that Chris would be arrested taken to Seminole County Sheriff’s department, he would then be able to be bailed, I asked how much money I would need ? He told me I would have to get a bail bonds man, I then asked if I could pay it he said yes but you will need a $1,000 as I have to pay full amount of bond!, so I thanked him for his time, went to find a Immigration Officer I then told them that I was going to the bank to get my husbands bail and then I would go straight to Seminole County Sheriff’s Office to post his bail. In the mean time as soon as Chris’s plane landed he was asked to make himself known to the cabin crew, and everyone else was asked to remain seated, Chris stood up was escorted to the door of the aircraft where he was met by two Immigration Officers, who asked him for his passport, on receipt of his passport he was then escorted off the aircraft, to the offices he had been interviewed in on his last visit. ( Anyone would have thought he was a master criminal ). He was then asked to sit down and someone would come and deal with him, ten minutes later two Officers came in and took him into another Office and started to ask him questions very sternly on the reason for his visit, he informed them he was in the U.S to visit his family as he had not seen us for five weeks, he was also here to help me buy a car and look over so new premises with me. The Officers then explained that they were going to take a statement of everything he said, and he was to sit down, he requested to stand as he was very stiff after being sat on an aircraft for nine and a half hours, he was told no, to sit down, so he complied with her request and proceeded to answer her question’s, at this point Officer X entered the Office with his supervisor and informed him I was outside the airport with his son and that he was going to allow him to see us for five minutes before he was arrested and taken away, Chris was surprised he was going to be taken to another location, but very grateful that he was going to get to see myself and his son. The Officer who was interviewing him then proceeded to ask further questions, and then produced some paperwork stating that it was his statement made on his previous visit. What the Officer then proceeded to read was an utter and complete fabrication of the truth, she informed him he was in partnership with Mr C H in 1995 and had fell out with him then left the country. He informed the Officer that this was not true he worked for Mr H and that his partner was in fact a gentleman called A B, Mr B fell out with Mr H and then disappeared, my husband had continued to work for Mr H but had left and returned to England because he didn’t agree with Mr H’s business practises or the things he was asking him to do. At this point Officer X intervened into the conversation going very close to his face and stating he was a “ Lying **** !” then in a very threatening manner said “**** you” officer X then left the room. At this point my husband lost his temper slightly as he had complied with everything that was requested of him, and felt he had done nothing to warrant being spoken to in such a manner. He was then asked to sit down by the Officer that was taking his statement or he would be restrained. He then stated why he was angry, the lady Officer said she had heard nothing! But the male officer did say he had heard what Officer X had said, and pointed out Officer X's supervisor if Chris wanted to list a complaint, he didn’t complain as he thought, making a complaint might make things worse!. After giving his statement he was asked to read through it and sign it at the bottom, he did ask for a copy of it, he was told he would receive one straight away, he still hasn’t received a copy! He was then escorted out of the Office to have his fingerprints taken, again! He informed the Officers that they had taken his fingerprints on his previous visit, they informed him that they had lost his fingerprints. So once again Chris had his fingerprints taken. He was then taken back into the Office he had been in previously, and told to sit and wait as the Sheriff’s Office were coming to collect him, at this point my husband was very scared all this over a bad check for two hundred and ninety five dollars that we didn’t even know if he had written in the first place!
After around 20 minutes an Officer arrived from Seminole County Sheriff’s Department arrived, my husband said “ I thought it was Orange County that issued the warrant?” and was told by Immigration that Seminole County would deal with him, the Officer then proceeded to search my husband asking him if he had anything sharp on his person, my husband then informed Immigration that he didn’t want to take his luggage with him was there anywhere it could be stored or could it be given to me as I was waiting outside the airport, the Immigration Officer then informed my husband I had gone to Seminole County correctional facility to post his bail and that someone would have to call me to arrange for me to come back to the airport, so Chris rang me from his mobile then handed the phone straight away to the Officer, who asked me where I was and would I go back to airport to collect Luggage. I told him “yes, no problem” this was 5pm I had been to our bank in Debary and withdrawn his bail, and had just arrived at Seminole County Sheriff’s Office, figured that I wouldn’t be able to post his bail if he hadn’t even arrived there! So I went back to airport when I arrived there I was met by an Officer who gave me my husbands bags then I turned around and saw my husband handcuffed in the back of a Seminole County Sheriff’s car, I was shocked, I asked the officer if I could go over to the car he said yes for a few minutes, I went over to the car with tears in my eyes but determined not to cry, I couldn’t believe how ill and scared he looked, I assured him I would post his bail and told him I loved him, they allowed me to give him my cell phone number, I was under so much stress at this point the only number I could remember was my UK cell, which Chris discovered later can not be dialled from inside a U.S prison. Then the car drove off. I loaded Chris’s luggage into our car and looked at my son, he said “ was that dad in the back of that police car” he had tears in his eye’s, I said “yes, but it will all be fine we are going to get him now” and gave him a big confident smile, and a hug.
I then drove to Seminole County Sheriff’s Office to bail Chris. The time would have been around 5pm at this point. When I arrived there I was really wishing I had someone to look after my son, you really don’t want to take children into that building their were people standing outside arguing, it felt very threatening for me as an adult, I dread to think what my son felt. I went up to the desk and informed the lady behind the counter why I was there she asked me to hold on a minute while she looked him up on her computer, she then told me that he was still being processed, but that there was no point in paying his bail as Immigration where holding him till Monday, so even if I paid it he wouldn’t be released. I asked why? She informed me she didn’t know, she told me he was going before a Judge at 9am Saturday morning but she couldn’t give me any further information. I didn’t know what to say! I didn’t know what to do! I looked at my son, and thought I had better get him out of there. I started to drive home not knowing what to say to my son. I told him I would try and sort it, I stopped the car and rang Sheriff’s department to see if someone could tell me why Immigration where holding my husband, they couldn’t tell me they gave me the number for Immigration, I rang the number straight away. I got an answering service saying the office was shut from 5pm Friday till 9am Monday!!!! It was now 5.30. Not knowing what to do I drove home, reassuring my son everything would be ok. I went home and pulled out the phone directory not quite sure who to call, I managed to get hold of an Attorney called J V, I gave him as much information as possible, he told me he would make some phone calls and try and find out what was happening, and that he would phone me back, he phoned back an hour later saying that he could not get any information either ! He advised me to ring the British Embassy. So I did. I managed to get hold of there emergency officer A P It was quite late at this point I am not sure exactly what time but I know I was starting to lose the battle with my tears, I nearly broke down on the phone but I managed to explain what had happened to A P he was very sympathetic, he told me he would ring me back in an hour he would make some phone calls. After what felt like a life time but was only an hour A P rang me back, he told me he couldn’t get hold of anyone, but he would try first thing in the morning, and that I was to try and get some sleep. I came off the phone feeling numb. Then I realised I hadn’t made my son anything to eat, I apologised to my son he said it was ok, he realised I was trying to get his dad home! I then made my son something to eat and put him to bed, then I thought I had better try and get some sleep as I didn’t want to be tired the following day, I couldn’t sleep that was the first time from arriving in Florida that I felt completely alone ! I had nobody to turn to ! I then started crying I had to get back out of bed it was to late at night to ring anyone in England as it was the middle of the night there I ended up staying up all night. I had been told that Chris was going before a Judge at 9am my attorney had advised me to get the letter from Albertson’s to the court before Chris went in and give it to the clerk of the court, so at 7am I got my son out of bed gave him his breakfast and off we went back to Seminole county sheriff’s department we arrived there at 7.45am, there was a lady sat out side having a cigarette ( she had a uniform on ), she asked me if I had somebody in court that morning I explained yes and told her why I was there, she told me to show her the letter which I did, she then asked me to follow her into the building she told me to wait she would give the letter to the clerk of the court. She went in to see the clerk of the court then came out and told me that Chris wasn’t going to court this morning ? He was due in court Sunday morning at 7.30am? But she told me that the letter would help, I then asked her if I could leave a list if numbers for my husband, as he hadn’t got any numbers. I then left and rang A P explaining what had happened, he explained that he had been on to immigration but the people he needed to talk to weren’t on duty until lunchtime he told me he would contact them then ring me. So I went home again to wait all the time my son is asking why his dad could not come home !. At 11am I had a phone call from Seminole County Sheriffs Office asking if I would go and pay Chris’s bail, as they where going to try and get immigration to release him, I rang A P’s and our Attorney and informed them then went straight down to pay the bail, I paid it and asked if I could wait for Chris they said there was no point as it would be a lot later as they couldn’t get hold of immigration. So yet again I left rang everyone and informed them that the bail was paid, then sat and waited for what seemed like for ever. At 1.30 I had a phone call from A P saying that Chris was to be released at between 8.30 & 9.30pm from Sanford Airport, he explained that Chris had to be taken to Sanford Airport to be paroled by Immigration, and they didn’t have the staff to do this till later that evening, they had a flight coming in at 7.30pm with around 700 people on once they had processed them they would send a car to pick Chris up and return him to the airport where he would be processed then paroled, he told me that Chris would be given a court date by Immigration and must appear when they ask him to, he gave me telephone numbers for Officer S of Immigration and Officer Neally of Seminole County Sheriff’s Department and told me to keep on to them, if I had any more problems to ring him back. I kept on ringing all afternoon nobody would confirm that Chris was to be released, at 7.30pm I spoke to Officer S at Immigration who confirmed that they where about to go and collect Chris he would be released around 9pm on to the pavement at Sanford Airport.
Mean while Chris was still going through hell,
He arrived at Seminole County Sheriff’s department and was admitted and processed straight away and put into a holding cell. Never being in prison before he found this a very unnerving experience and was getting very worried, at this point he did try to ring me discovering that he could not get a connection as the number was restricted, he was held in his cell for a few hours until an officer called for him and escorted him back to the reception area, thinking that I had posted my bail he started to feel better but that was not to be. He was to be processed to enter the correctional facility for the night, he was given a medical and was asked to take some medication because his blood pressure was dangerously high (I must point out he has never taken medication in his life for high blood pressure), after the medical once again his fingerprints were taken also a frontal and side photograph of him. He did ask the lady officer who performed these procedures if I had placed his bond, the officer went to check only to return to inform him that no bail had been placed to procure his release, they didn’t tell him that Immigration where holding him. He found this very difficult to believe that I hadn’t paid his bail because he had been inside the facility for quite a few hours now, he then asked the lady officer if she could try and contact me as he had tried from the holding cell and found the number was restricted, the officer agreed to try from her phone after he explained that he was in a foreign country and did not have any other contacts other than his wife, the officer tried to ring the number he gave her only to find that she had the same results the number was restricted. He was then asked to fill in a form giving personal details then led away to a cell. He could not say how long he was kept here as you tend to lose track of time and are unable to sleep as the florescent lights seem to be kept on all day and all evening. Many hours later an officer came taking him out of the cell and transferred him to another cell along with twenty / twenty five other men they were all held here for three to for hours, they were all offered some food which Chris says he found he could not eat but was grateful for the cold drink he was then asked by an officer for his clothes size which he could not answer not knowing American clothing sizes the officer informed all of them that had their named called out were going to court at 8;00am but before that we were going to be allowed a shower. Chris’s name was called out and he was led outside the holding cell and put into a line, around 30minutes later they were led away to the shower and given a pair of overalls. After showering they were led back to the holding cell area and lined up to be handcuffed before they where led away to court. Once in the court every inmate was given an arrest sheet ( except Chris! ) Detailing why they had been arrested, when Chris asked the officer why he had not been given an arrest sheet he looked surprised and replied that he did not know why. Chris then sat in court waiting until his name was called out by the judge, only to find that the judge did not have any paperwork concerning his case, at this point the judge enquired if he was going to make bail to which he replied yes he then instructed him that the bail had been set at $1000. After the court had finished they were led away back to the holding cell for another few hours until an officer arrived to inform everyone who’s bail had not been placed was to be taken to the pod’s, the officer then read out a list of names who’s bail had been paid one of which was Chris’s. This officer called Chris’s name out and informed him that his wife had been to the prison and left a list of phone numbers to use if he could get the use of a phone which the officer then handed to him under the door, about an hour later everyone was taken from the holding cell apart from two other inmates and Chris who were to be bailed. The three of them stayed in the cell for what seemed like 4-5 more hours once again he was offered food that he found he could not eat but with it came a cold drink, then an hour later he was transferred to a smaller cell still waiting to be released, he was held in this cell for around another couple of hours until an officer came for him took him out of the cell and informed him that he was now being transferred to the pod’s he tried to explain to the officer that this could not be right as he had been told that his bail had been paid, he explained that he did not know what had gone wrong but that he was to be taken to the pod’s. Chris was then transferred given blankets toilet paper and a toothbrush and paste and admitted into the pod’s Chris asked if he could make a phone call to the British embassy but was informed that all the phone lines in the prison were out of order!!. Having no other alternative he then preceded into the pod’s to make up his bed not knowing what time of day or night it was and being exhausted he then proceeded to go to sleep as he had not slept since Thursday evening in the U.K. he was awoken later by an officer standing over his bed informing him to collect all of his bedding and to follow him. The officer then escorted him out of the pod’s taking him back to the holding area of the prison, he asked the officer if he was being released he replied that he did not know, Chris was taken to a counter where his clothes were given to him but not his belongings he was asked to change in the shower room and was allowed to go to the toilet an opportunity that was gratefully received as Chris says he doesn’t think anyone likes to go to the toilet in front of numerous other men. Once again after changing he asked if he was being released and was told by the officer that he did not know, he then escorted him to another holding cell where he told him to enter and Chris was to be held here until someone came for him, after what seemed like an hour the door was opened and Chris was taken out of the cell by two Immigration Officers who proceeded to search him and escorted him to the prison reception, they then informed him that they were transferring him back to Sanford airport, when he asked why they informed him that they did not know, he was then handcuffed and transferred into a waiting van and transferred to Sanford airport where he was escorted to the original office that he was put in upon arrival in the U.S. the handcuffs were taken off and he was put in front of an immigration officer who started to explain that he was to be released on parole due to increased pressure applied by the British embassy. He was going to be paroled for one month in which time he would have to bring this problem to a conclusion, if not he was to report back to Sanford airport to have his parole extended also if he did not comply with these instructions he would be arrested again (even though he was never actually formally arrested !!) and he would not be allowed to leave the country as his passport was going to be held at Sanford by the U.S. customs. On agreeing to these restrictions on himself he was released at 9:00pm Saturday evening and escorted from the airport where I was met outside by our son and myself.
On the Sunday we went to see the Attorney as Chris had no date to appear in court and we didn’t want him to miss court date, our Attorney rang Officer S and tried to find out but couldn’t get a court date, seems one wasn’t set on examining the paperwork it seemed that I bailed Chris before he was arrested as on the arrest report he was arrested on Sat 18th June at 5.13pm it also said it was for a check under the value of one hundred and fifty dollars ? He was also missing a notice to appear which seemingly he should have been given when he was bailed.
On Monday the 20th June I got a phone call from J C of the British Embassy, he is taking over from A P, he told me that he has put in a compliant regarding Chris’s arrest as Immigration never informed the Embassy that they had arrested a British Citizen, he asked me to get our Attorney to ring him, which we did. J C rang us after he had spoken with our Attorney, he said that our attorney seemed to have everything in hand and if we had any more problems to ring him.
It is now the 30th June we still have no court date and my husband’s Attorney still hasn’t been given the information he has requested, although he has been promised it is in the post to him this evening!!!
I was sorting though our passport holder today, the one that Chris had his passport in when he came to the U.S this time, Guess what ! I found a second I-94 card for Chris this one paroles him till June 2006???? They must have put it in on Friday 17th when they removed his passport ! ( They had already paroled him) so now he has two I-94 cards. The left hand doesn’t seem to know what the right hand is doing.
When we hadn’t heard anything from immigration regarding Chris’s visa, after me being in Florida a few week I contacted Senator M Office to see if they could find out what was holding up Chris’s visa, seeing as neither ourselves and our Attorney had sent various emails and letters to no avail. I sent them a letter on the 3rd June 05, they contacted me on the 10th June 05 stating that they where looking into it for us, they sent me another Letter on the 22nd of June Stating that Chris had not followed through his visa application!!!!! And that Chris was to make an appointment to go to the London Embassy !!!! Since then the London Embassy has sent out a Letter (I have a friend picking up my mail, letter arrived 27th June 05, 10 weeks after my visa was issued) I have got our visa consultant in the UK to book him an appointment he is booked to go to the Embassy on the 5th August 05 at 1.15pm ( if he is ever able to sort out mess here and get his passport back !) earliest appointment available. 6 months after visas where approved, 4 months after mine, these are 12month visas and run from the date they are approved I am 6 months into visa. I came here to start a business! Instead I find myself in a nightmare! And I haven’t done a thing to get my business off the ground in fact I have gone back the way, well who wants to set up a business with all this going off! But I am starting to think I am running out of time as my visa is up Feb 06 and I have to show 6 month trading accounts in order to get an extension on my visa. Plus I seem to be spending money for fun!!! I have had to buy a car as it is silly to keep on renting, then there is the attorney, here is another thought who is paying for Chris’s flight back to the UK ? He had a return ticket for the 25th! Suppose that will be something else.
and got so much going on I haven’t had time or the energy to sort out my business, plus if they decline to give Chris his visa what am I meant to do? Live here without him ?
To top all this I applied for my Social Security Number on the 17th May 05 and was told it would take 35 days for it to be sent out, I still haven’t received it !
( you can’t work without social security number )
12th July Still have no idea what is going on Arraignment has been set for the 22nd July 05 at 8.30am in Orange county, our attorney has faxed a plea of not guilty and a demand for discovery, so hopefully we will have a bit more information.
We have received copy of evidence, now I am even more vexed, can’t believe it all this is over a wages check !! (Off his previous employer) that Chris has cashed at Albertson’s (did find it a bit hard to believe that Chris had wrote a check at a supermarket for $295 for food!!) And I can’t understand why Chris would have cashed a wages check in Longwood !! We lived in Deltona and he worked in Orange City, C H lived in Longwood, what is also confusing me is the fact that on the form that they filled out regarding bounced check they have Chris as a Hispanic male, Chris doesn’t look in the slightest Hispanic !! C H on the other hand does!! I think they actually think My Husband who's initials are the same CH is C H they have even got a photo of C H in evidence, C H is at least 10 years younger than my husband dark haired (full head of hair), with dark eye’s, my husband is the complete opposite, they have also included a couple of other checks that C H has written ???. Well at least I know this can all be easily cleared up, as it clearly is nothing to do with Chris!!!!
We have received the date for the pre trial and Jury Trial !!! Swear you would think Chris was a major criminal who has a Jury Trial for a bounced check? Pre trial is set for Sept 1st 05 at 8.30am, Jury Trial for Sept 12th 05 at 8.30am, we went to see attorney he told us he was excusing himself from the pre trial as he has two other pre trials in Volusia county the same morning, well he told us it was going to cost us $2,000 for him to go and we didn’t need him !!! As it was cut and dry case we didn’t need an attorney!!! (So why have we paid this guy a $1,000.?) After we said ok, we wanted him to go he admitted that he couldn’t, told us he was going to fax the judge excusing himself but that we still had to go! (This was the Friday before the pre trial) I think he is just a lazy git!!! Who doesn’t want to travel to Orange County at 8.30am, there was no mention of $2,000 before today !! I want to know what we paid him $1,000 for as he hasn’t even managed to talk to the state Attorneys office, all he has managed to do is send a few faxes excusing himself!!! Every time there is a suggestion of him getting of his behind and actually doing some work ! He finds an excuse!
Well we arrived at Orange County court office at 7.30am!!! (Well better to be early than late) we found out where we had to be, then as all the Attorneys where arriving we went in to see the clerk of the court to inform them we where present as we had been told to do by our attorney, we were immediately dismissed, they informed us they were aware our attorney wasn’t present and we could go, we were to speak to our attorney in a few days!!! We were flabbergasted, but we went home, later we rang our attorney he said we would have to wait for it to go to trial as he hadn’t managed to speak to prosecutor!!!
Thursday 8th Sept 05 we rang the Attorney as haven’t heard anything from him, No reply! He hasn’t contacted us at all, don’t know if he has managed to speak to State Attorney!
Friday 9th Sept 05 Attorney has rang this morning he doesn’t want to go to trial, more of the same we don’t need him!!! (So why did we bother employing him) says the trial on Monday is a waste of time and we don’t need an attorney, he is just trying to save us money, as it will cost $2,000 for him to appear! (I would say that was up to us). That’s it I have had enough of him, lazy git. I have rang another attorney and made Chris an appointment for him at 3pm this afternoon, it will cost $1500 for him to take on the case and go to court on Monday. Actually I have rang a few attorneys and all of them have quoted the same, that is to take the case from start to finish! Our attorney has just rang again to give me the name of a friend of his who will do the case for $1500 (joke or what) so I have informed him I have made Chris an appointment with another attorney, he started waffling and offered to do the case for less money, I don’t want him covering case even if he does it for no money! Chris has just rang he has engaged the other attorney, it has cost us $750. The old attorney has just rang again he has just spoke to State Attorney!!! State Attorney has offered to drop the case if Chris pays the $295, (why should he it isn’t his check?) the new attorney is in agrees that Chris shouldn’t pay it, he says he will talk to State Attorney on Monday at trail.
Monday trial day, Chris has just rang prosecutor has thrown the case out, as it isn’t Chris’s Check ! So Chris has gone to Sanford airport to pick up his passport.
Please see next part (can fit all on one post )

[Carol]

Part 2.....
When he arrived at Sanford airport to collect his passport they gave him a hard time again they weren’t going to give him it!!! (As if they have any reason to keep it), they suggested he pick it up on his way out, Chris insisted they return it, They eventually gave him it along with the threat that he had better leave the country before the 30th Sept 05 (where do these people get off!) he wants his passport as he has a interview at London US Embassy on the 20th Sept 05.
Well we have been on to the airline, because Chris came out on a week return they want £400 to fly him back !!! We have to buy another ticket, (More money). So I have booked Chris on a flight with a different airline, good job he got his passport back as he is having to fly out of Orlando, not Sanford, he is travelling on the 18th arriving on the 19th, giving him enough time to drive to London in Good time to have some sleep before having to go to the Embassy.
Well it is the 20th I have got my son off to school and am sat waiting for Chris to call, I have been up since 5am couldn’t sleep this is it I can have my life back after today.
12.30 (US Time) on the 20th Sept 05, Chris has just rang, they have not given him his visa as there is a warrant out for his arrest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They have taken his fingerprints again, another $85 they are sending them to Washington, he will hear in 6-8 weeks ( where have I heard that before) they are not interested in the fact that Chris had all the case information with him, it is an impossibility for them to pick up the phone!!!! And ring the state Attorneys office. I have had enough I can’t, wait another 6-8 weeks, when I thought we had sorted all this out I took on new premises and put $8,000 deposit on some more premises for my business. Well I have to start paying rent and have to have everything set up by the beginning of November, Kitchen showrooms can’t be set up over night, what do I do? If they refuse his visa (which the way things are going is looking likely Process!) if I do nothing I go bust before I start, but if I blow all my money setting up what do I do if he doesn’t get his visa.
More to the point what is Chris going to do, were is he going to live, we had to give up the house in the UK, he was going to stay with friends for a week, he can’t stay there for 6-8 weeks!
Wed 22nd September I have sent Certified court documents to London, I have spoke with our visa consultant who says he will speak to our attorney and see if they can sort out this mess any sooner. In the mean time I have sent our story to everyone including Prime Minister & president Bush, the Vice President if fact I have sent it to anyone in power!! I have spoke to the Senators office but they are away till Monday!!
Friday- I have checked the tracking number for the documents, the US Embassy in London has received them at 8.50am, so I rang our Immigration attorney in Canada !! She is a Joke all she could say is leave it 4 weeks !! Why!!
Monday- I have had a **** weekend I can’t sleep don’t think I can take much more of this, I had an email from the BBC it says “WOW” ?? That’s it just “Wow!! Oh and I had an email from the justice department telling me if I had a complaint regarding Immigration, how to complain and where to get the customer service number. Joke !! Customer service can’t help me as they have nothing to do with London !!! and as for the complaint form, how do you get 17 pages on to a form !!!!
I rang the Senators office, C will call me back ! No call !! Tuesday I rang again this time she came to the telephone, she is going to put a call into London and will call me back no later than Friday. This evening I have sent an email to Tim Hopekirk European MP & Michael Howard leader of the Conservative party, well I haven’t had a reply from our prime minister !! He is probably to busy brown nosing Bush !!
I have had another email today off ExPats yet another person upset with the system, something has to change! The system is failing and can’t continue to treat people like this and get away with it !! This is the 21st century, I have spoken to numerous people who are getting abused by this system.
Thursday - I have just spoken with C at the senator’s office, she has spoken with London and it seems there is someone with a similar name to Chris !!! Wanted !! But not to worry as they had Chris’s prints back within two weeks last time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So why did it take them so long to contact Chris ?
Friday- I was up at 4am this morning with Steve he had a nightmare about his dad !! Then at 7am he was sick, I think it is just stress, you don’t realise how much it affects the kids, I have sent him to school as if it is stress school will take his mind off it, maybe not 11.45am I had a call from school to go collect him !!
But on a good note I had Chris’s bond back today !!( No Interest !!! Ha Ha )
Well it is now Friday the 7th October 05 Still nothing, Chris has an appointment at the embassy on Tuesday although there is no point in him keeping it. I spoke to our visa consultants in the UK other day they were going to cancel appointment today, I told them to leave it until Monday, as you never know!! But on further investigation today, the Embassy is shut on Monday ! Columbus Day ( surely they should have known this !!) I have also do a little more digging today as I can’t understand if they have had Chris’s fingerprints back once then why do they need them again ? I found a site called US Government accountability Office, there is a report on this site regarding the Embassy process & fingerprinting, seemingly when the Embassy put Chris’s name into the Computer it would have come up as a “hit” which means they have to send his fingerprints off to the FBI ! So the Embassy takes Ink prints, which they then send to National Visa Centre where they are scanned onto computer and transferred to the FBI ! Seemingly to get the ink prints to the national visa centre it takes at least a week as they are mailed, but once the FBI have the prints they release the file within 24hours. The FBI have put in a recommendation requesting that the Embassy’s do electronic fingerprints that way they can be returned to the Embassy within 24hours, cutting the wait time. 40,000 people where fingerprinted due to their name coming up as a “hit “ only 4% of those where refused visa’s. People can come up as a “hit” for having a parking ticket, but the Embassy has no way of knowing until they receive the file, they have no idea why someone has come up as a “hit” as they have no access to the files !!! So 38,400 people last year alone were put through what we are going through for no reason they were “Innocent” only 1,600 people out of the 40,000 were wanted, surely with today’s technology they should be able to speed up the process, after all for a county that spends billions sorry trillions according to the news today, on war in the gulf. They can surely afford to implement new technology !!! And stop living in the dark ages, no one communicates with anyone, everyone is caught up in Process !!
Friday the 21st October I have sent a letter to the US Embassy London requesting help (pleading) with the issuance of husbands visa, this situation is intolerable as I have put in my letter I have spent fortunes, I am paying rent on premises, but refuse to spend anymore on the business until Chris has his Visa, How can I, what is the point if they are not going to issue his visa, I wish they would just say, but I am also running out of time I am supposed to apply for my extension in December, Chris has done nothing wrong, why are we being treated like this is it not enough that they have put through hell the last 12 months.
11th November Chris is finally on his way.
Chris arrived at the airport and yet again was pulled out of the line by homeland securities !! Well he had his visa this time but they still wanted to know everything, and he still felt very intimidated. But at least he is here, with my son and me, he looks awful.

9th January 2006 well our extension went in, I have not got any sales or taxes to send in with the return, well who would, it takes more than four weeks to Install showrooms (a lot more), and get everything going.

22nd Feb, USCIS have requested more information, the want wage reports for last two quarters ???? Detailed organizational chart showing employees, Details, Qualifications, Titles, positions and length of time they have been employed??? So 28th March we have managed to send them quarterly wage report with nil on well it wouldn’t say anything else I have just managed to open the doors on the business, I have done a letter explaining delays & detailed organisational chart of positions to be filled along with duties, I have just wrote our first deal so have also included a copy of it, even though they never requested anything like that, and we have also included a letter from our US accountant

28th April I have just had a telephone call from M S my visa has been refused ?? It was refused the 21st April, they have put a letter in to allow us to appeal!! They have refused it on the grounds that quote ”Evidence submitted indicates that no employee’s are currently working for the petitioner. Indeed, even the beneficiary is not being paid (do these people know anything about business, I wasn’t paid in my UK company for the first 6 months and even after that for the first twelve months was only paid a minimum wage, you put your money back into your business to enable it to grow) It is quite clear that the US company is still in a start up phase (so what they think cabinet companies open over night) as it is not fully operational, Unfortunately, the petition must be denied because the beneficiary is not functioning in a managerial or executive position” unquote, So tell me please why I have spent fortunes on Attorneys Immigration & Criminal, a fortune in rents and setting up my company ?? and who sets up companies ? Isn’t that a managerial duty ?
It also states in their letter “there is no provision in the law that allows for exceptions to be made in the event of unforeseen obstacles in the development of the business.” This one I really need someone to explain so you are telling me US Immigration services can put me and my family through everything they have in the last year or so and I am to accept it !
I have written $49,000 worth of business in the month of April, I have also employed staff members as you would when you start writing business ( well if you are a manager anyway!!!). Do they actually believe I would have spent more money after my husband came over if I didn’t think I could make it work?? Do they think us brits are stupid ? Why are things so difficult for L-1A investors?? Saying that why are things so difficult for the English in the US????????????????

I went to see my attorney yesterday to sort the appeal, costing me even more money (and yes he is a member of the board AILA) $2500. So more money I have to take away from my US business as the more money that goes to Attorneys and immigration the less goes to my business, (do they really want me to fail) My attorney say’s there is only a small amount of appeals go through, and he is having to file a motion to re open as well as the appeal, because if he just files the motion to re open I will be out of status and have to stop trading !!!! The Appeal keeps me in status. He suggested that I contacted a member of congress.

Well My Appeal has been sent to Washington, even though they could have over turned the decision with the motion to re open !!! My Attorney was surprised he genuinely thought they would over turn their decision !!!
I have contacted Senator M M Office again C was very supportive she has since sent me a list of dates for Appeals !!! L-1a Visa’s are taking anything up to 18 months to be heard !!! I have also contacted Congressman J M Office they where also supportive and informed me they would send a letter to USCIS !!
So I have to live in limbo till then and continue with my business, which I might add is doing very well we turned over $88,000 last month (August 06). I now have a sales manager in place, I also have one of the Installers more or less working exclusively for Accenti Kitchens, and I have an odd job guy that comes in and helps out as and when I need him. None of this includes my suppliers, which also have additional business because of Accenti Kitchens. S C (US Manufacturer) did a Letter for Immigration (which I sent in with the appeal and Motion to Re Open) stating that he had taken on additional employee’s due to the increase in his business provide by Accenti Kitchens !!!! I brought the patterns for the CNC machine that S C uses from the UK, He uses the same machine as used to make the Cabinets in England, I had spoke to the CNC manufacturer when we made the decision to come here, and they provided me with S C details as he had just bought the machine !! So it became a mutual friendship I helped increase his business with a unique product and he allowed me to be able to sell what I think is a great product ! I am looking to take on another salesperson as the demand for our product has become so great the majority of my business is recommendation business I haven’t had to advertise at all, which is a saving I have been able to pass on to our customers, so they are happy
But Yet I still live in limbo !!!!!!!!!! And I must say that some days I have to think is it all worth it ?? Am I just Messing about with my son’s education as the qualifications he gets here are not recognised in the UK, In much the same way the USA doesn’t recognise the rest of the worlds qualifications. To top all this I have two older children in England a daughter who is 19 and doing very well (she is very independent), and a Son who is 21 and not coping quite so well, I wanted him to come over for 6 months so I could try and sort him out as his doctor has put him on anti depressants !!!(He is 21, and lonely) but yet again Immigration won’t give him a holiday visa (yes he can come on a visa waiver, but will 3 months be enough to sort him out), as I don’t have a valid Visa !!! and because I don’t have a valid visa I am basically a prisoner here I can not leave the country as I would not be allowed back into the country !

On top of all this having taken my driving test in May 2005 they would only issue my driving license for the term of my visa, so my driving license ran out in Feb 2006 and I am unable to renew it, as I don’t have a valid visa !!! So am driving on my UK license again !! This doesn’t make any sense at all as your US law states that you can only drive on your UK license for 30 days then you have to have a US license ! And no doubt when I am able to have another licence I will have to re take my test even though it isn’t twelve months since I took my test???

Things are made very difficult for British wanting to invest in the USA I don’t know why we are bothering (well I do I have invested to much to give up) I am sure there

are other counties around the world that would welcome us not make us feel like criminals, even getting your Driving Licence is an ordeal you have to wait 30 days for it!. As for you social security number yet again another 35-day wait, and Steve can’t have one (that’s my son who was 11 when we came over) they said he might work !! At 11!!. I was interviewed twice on the way in through immigration! Chris told me that no end of brits where detained on there way in to the U.S and questioned, I must admit the British seem to be targeted buy Immigration,

Prior to 9-11 I think the American system was very slack, but now it is on steroids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think America needs to find a happy medium before they alienate the world against them, after all most Americans forefathers where Europeans, is American not built on Immigrants

[Carol]

Oh !!! and to move on as there is plenty more to my story the I have been informed by my attorney that the appeal will more than likley be refused as they have been refusing them all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But I am still here !!!

[David R. Lenox]

Steve (and Carol) very troubling and heartwrenching to read your stories. I'm afraid trying to return to the US, Steve, under the circumstances and being detained and deported is going to be a significant problem in the future.

For those of you who have been properly horrified by these stories, let me assure you that I personally have dealt with similar instances - except in these cases it was with US citizens. In one situation I had to extricate a local attorney who handled a closing on a commercial deal from an investigation by the certain Federal law enforcement agents who misrepresented certain information they had to suggest he had done something improper in the transaction. He had months of sleepless nights until it was sorted. In the other a local contractor of Jordanian ancestry who had been in central Florida for over twenty years was performing emergency work on a broken water line near a water treatment plant with his crew around midnight on a Friday when local police detained him because they were suspicious of his presence near the plant - this poor man was held for thirty days on this suspicion. I think we are seeing the true and ugly fallout from 9/11.

I cannot recommend any UK national with minor children to even begin to consider the visa option for the US at this time. Possibly with the change in the administration in Washington, things will improve. In the meantime, you are setting your children and yourselves up for heartbreak and pain. I personally have heard story after story after story of families torn apart and the least you can expect is months of anxiety and sleeplessness.

I don't see any solution at the moment. I think the only reasonable chance of success under the circumstances would be for would-be visa seekers to connect with well-connected US representatives who can help them on a case by case basis.

[Kriz1]

I'm really lost for words...
For one thing we need some kind of support system in place for people going through this...a number someone can call to get help with childcare...or to make calls etc....no-one should have to do anything like this alone again....

[JulieC]

Carol, your story is absolutely horrific. It is a warning for anyone about what can happen. And i thought what happened to us was bad, it goes to show there is always someone worse off than you.
I want to just make one practical point and that is that an L1 appeal doesnt give you the right to stay, you can only stay 180 days before you get a three year bar and the appeal is taking 18 months. That is why we left!!! I do however know of someone who re-filed for L1 instead of waiting for the appeal and got through though I didnt know you could do this ( and Steve who originally posted said he had done this unsuccessfully). Immigration law is very confusing and what seems to work for some people doesnt seem to work for others.

[Munish]

What the f***!

I cannot believe this!!!!!!!!!!!! Frankly, this has be publicised and the media has to get involved. I hear all these ******* stories about illegals and how difficult it is for them, and then you hear these stories, which are not one-offs but regular occurances!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sorry but the these people working in immigration and enforcement have be accountable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It seems the only thing that is going to get attention is a very loud noise in the US media.

Do you remember when it was suggested about making our own documentaries? What happened to that people, let's get filming!!!!!!

Screw working with the system. It's designed to screw you over! And it's has too many people who are lazye, stupid, arrogant, racist or all of the above, who want to keep the country "safe." Since when are Brits standing up for being treated like "terrorists." Is the thanks we get for committing to the wars???

NONSENSE! Now is the time to release these stories and make the American public (particularly those of the Democrat persuasion) to realise what the "aliens" have to put up with!

An example of yet another bloody good business that made $88,000 even with all that was going on, but what happens - every obstacle and dimwitted idiot makes bureaucracy get in your way. And the lawyers... they're a bunch of friggin idiots as well!!!! All they care about is minimum effort and maximum fees to get and will not do anything to change the system because they are the ones who make the most money from it.

You hear all this talk about FOREIGNERS taking AMERICAN jobs. NONSENSE. The AMERCICANS are unemployed because the idiot immigration officials are deporting all the EMPLOYERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Munish]

How rude of me Carol, I forgot my manners in the anger that resulted from reading your story. :welcome:

[InnVic]

its awful....
One thing that strikes me as similarities in both stories is that initial processing was done in Texas......being on E2 I don't know if that is the norm for L visa processing? I understand that London don't recognise "Status approval" and if you want the visa you have to do it all in the UK. Does this have any bearing on the appauling treatment of these people?
The warrant thing belies belief. I'd suggest you have a case for wrongful arrest but who'd want to bend themselves out of shape to pursue something like that.
We have a renewal in progress - we don't take a salary but re-invest, my husband was 'arrested" for an alledged speeding offence..I anticipate problems. I just hope we don't get put through the mill like you guys did.
Canada is looking more appealing!

[Kriz1]

We looked into Canada...and with all its problems....America is still a better bet....you would not get me to OZ no way no how.......

[InnVic]

We looked into Canada...and with all its problems....America is still a better bet....you would not get me to OZ no way no how.......

it may have problems but it appears though that Canada doesn't employ nazi's as Immigration/police officers though!

[Kriz1]

it may have problems but it appears though that Canada doesn't employ nazi's as Immigration/police officers though!

I've never had any trouble with Immigration anywhere so far....the same with my family who travel to see us in the USA a lot..more's the pity...I'm going to have to move and not tell them........:D :D :p

[lorraine]

Hi what a horror story hey. Carol is my best friend and we left Uk a month or so after each other. As a family Carol Chris and Steve have been to hell and back. So So Unfair

[reecey]

How awful for your family
it is also disturbing to ear thet dont want us Brits here !

[DEE F]

I was so mad when I read this post even madder than when I read Steves,who do these a*******S think they are,the way they treated my daughter at Philadelphia was nothing short of criminal,but this is appaling surely something can be done,it is about time we British stood up to be counted,just where do these idiots get off treating us like this,I have never known anything like it in my life.It is about time their nazi tactics was exposed to the rest of the world,how dare they treat us like this,something needs to be done and done NOW. Munishes suggestions should now be brought into play,lets make the video and send it to every TV Company and radio station we can,we cannot stand back any longer ,we have to make it known we will no longer tolerate this abuse,talk about violating our human rights,unbeleivable mad mad mad words fail me.


Dee x

[v2002]

Oh !!! and to move on as there is plenty more to my story the I have been informed by my attorney that the appeal will more than likley be refused as they have been refusing them all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But I am still here !!!
:mad: :welcome: to the site carol.
After reading your story I am dumbfounded, have no words or the ability to know how do I respond to your nightmare!!!! At the same time I applaud that you are still here to tell your story and are fighting back the rotten system that care about nothing, they harp of "compassion" where the hell is that? I wonder if they even know what is the meaning of that word - they use so frequently? :eek: hang on!!!!! I hope you will find a way to expose this injustice. Expats members are really good at this and I am sure just now every one is thinking of only one thing "what can we do to fight this"?

I wish you luck7 pray for your family to have a big win in this fight of injustice and harassment.

[lorraine]

(Hey Carol Dee is the one I been telling you about, yes shes defo mad) lolxxx

[Clecky]

Hi All, I am new to the site, well not new just been a lurker for a while, after reading this post i had to reply to you.

Oh my god, i drank 3 beers reading that post and I am now onto my 4th feeling tipsy and ready to fight the world, (I know I am a lightweight).......

After reading the forum for a while I know people on the site are trying to fight our corners, this story is horrible, the worst I have heard ever we must all come together no matter what visa people are on and shout and stamp.......!

I am baffled just dont know what to say........

Clecky

[Kriz1]

Well its nice that you stopped being a lurker......:)

:welcome:

[Munish]

Yes :welcome: Clecky. This is a kind request to all the other lurkers please join the cause. :D Munish

[anniefromessex]

Ohmigod, I wasn't going to post tonight as I am feeling really down myself (lots of personal problems which I wont go into right now) but after reading Steve's and Carol's posts I couldn't stop myself!!

What right does this country have to put us through the mill like this, it is bad enough in ordinary situations to get Visa's without the added hassles that Carol and her family have had to go through. I am feeling so angry and bitter - do they really want to draw blood?!!!

Munish your idea is sooo right; we need to have an early meeting about this. I know Susie is having to deal with her own problems right now, bless her heart, but if she feels unable to cope then we need to all sit down together and discuss some kind of action plan until she is feeling stronger, and knowing her she will soon get the bit between her teeth.

Even when I re-entered the country a couple of weeks ago, I was again hauled aside for questioning - I am a LPR - but there is obviously stuff still on the computer that shows that I overstayed my welcome at some stage (never have) and was meant to have been deleted when we returned from England after Christmas, the lady at POE assured me that it would be dealt with, yeah right!!! Nobody in this godforsaken country gets anything right, I am amazed that it still runs to be honest with you!! The guy I saw this time at POE was great, he felt sorry for me that after a long flight I had to be subjected to this sh.. but said he had been overruled by his Superiors when he had brought it up in the past, he reckoned that they send messages to another Department asking them to deal with it, but nothing gets done. He told me to get a Comment Card and make my feelings known, which I have done so we shall see what transpires next time I leave the country!!

My daughter-in-law was travelling with us with our granddaughter, and it was touch and go whether they allowed them in. Apparently they should have had a letter from my son (who didn't make the trip). In one way I can see it, she explained she was travelling with her son's parents but he was not impressed. Even if my son had given her a letter saying she could bring Heather Rose with her, she could have forged it - my God are they really such imbeciles, alas I think they are!!!!

Sorry to have got onto my personal stuff here, but just trying to make a point about their inability to deal with anything that us Brits see as common sense!!!

With regard to Julie C's comments about L status and then applying for Green Cards. Maybe we were just incredibly lucky (or unfortunate as the case may be) but we were turned down for our renewal, our Attorneys put in an appeal, at the same time applying for Green Cards. We have never heard about our appeal but were granted Green Cards quite quickly in the scheme of things. Nobody told us that there was a time scale for this and that if the Green Cards are not issued within a time-scale then all is lost. I really really don't understand how these Attornies can take our money and not tell us the full facts - is it because they really don't know themselves?

To get back to Steve and Carol, I really really wish you both all the luck in the world, in the case of Steve, America's loss is some other countries gain. and Carol stick with it and if the worst come to the worst, tell them to poke it, this country doesn't deserve you!

Please keep posting and let us know what transpires, it is cases like these that will help us in the long run I think, hope and pray!!!

Love Anniexxx

[floridapete]

I assume that Steve, having started this thread, is still reading it though he hasn't been back to post again since the beginning.

Steve, I sent you a PM yesterday. I am waiting to receive your reply so that I can help you to get your case more publicity. I cannot do this without your approval.

Please pick up that PM and reply to me soonest.

[JulieC]

With regard to Julie C's comments about L status and then applying for Green Cards. Maybe we were just incredibly lucky (or unfortunate as the case may be) but we were turned down for our renewal, our Attorneys put in an appeal, at the same time applying for Green Cards. We have never heard about our appeal but were granted Green Cards quite quickly in the scheme of things. Nobody told us that there was a time scale for this and that if the Green Cards are not issued within a time-scale then all is lost. I really really don't understand how these Attornies can take our money and not tell us the full facts - is it because they really don't know themselves?
Love Anniexxx

Thanks for posting this Annie. You were not the person I was speaking of though I knew you got your green card while in L1 appeal as i had read it on here, I actually personally know two others. In both cases they seem to have discontinued the L1 appeal after the green card was issued as the people never hear another thing about it and i am talking about for years after. Our AILA board certified attorney also advised us to do this though in the event our green card was also turned down. Whatever 2002 says about the law, the practice seems to be different. You can only speak by example of what you see happening around you. Surely it is better in any case to file for green card and keep yourself in status than sit in L1 appeal for eighteen months during which time you will earn a three year and then a ten year bar from the US for yourself if you are unsuccessful?

[anniefromessex]

Hi Julie,

Couldn't agree more. To be honest with you it amazed us when we were agreed the Green Cards, although instead of leaping up and down and shouting from the roof tops because of other stuff that was going on with our family, there was definitely no party!!! It does seem that everybody's case is different in the way they are handled, which I don't understand at all, I thought it was done from a Rule Book - they are certainly keen on quoting it when they want to!!

My son's house is now on the market and my daughter-in-law wants to come over to pack up their personal belongings to ship back. She e-mailed the Embassy and they informed her that they were given life bans when they were deported from the Bahamas (just for applying for B1/B2 Visas on the advice of their Attorney)!! My God criminals don't get life even for murder. Anyway to cut a long story short, they are now going to have to endure hours of waiting at the Embassy just to see if they will even be allowed to do this. I really can't see why they should be denied, after all they don't want us here, which is evident, so surely they should be clapping their hands that they are getting rid of another family who dared to want to live and work here, shame on us!!!

They are also getting rid of us too - cannot take the strain anymore, we have finally caved in to their wishes.

Julie, I understand you are wanting to come back - are you MAD, ha ha!!!

Love Anniexxx

[DEE F]

"They are also getting rid of us too - cannot take the strain anymore, we have finally caved in to their wishes."

Hi Annie,I sure hope the above statement was written in a moment of madness,i cannot beleive that you are about to give up everything here,I really understand where you are coming from but please think very carefully,before you make a decision,I know it is easy for me to talk,but I have also been through a similar scenario with my daughter,Annie you cannot let them beat you. Remember we may have lost the battle,but we will win the war. Whatever you decide to do though,we are behind you 100%,and when everyone starts to realise that they will not keep being treated like criminals and decide to pull out their hard earned cash,then I hope that the powers that be realise what a bunch of a*******s they have been,they do not deserve our friendship or our loyalty,I am disgusted:mad: :mad: Take care and please ring me if you can.

Love Dee xxx

[Susie]

Hello Steve,

Thank you for posting your experiences with the uscis, poe officials and the American embassy in London. Now I have read and understood your journey here is my initial thoughts. Now I need to read eveyones replies and respond with a separate post.

What a complete mess! It does seem you have suffered enough.

I am intersted to know exactly who your immigration attorney is ) please do not post name here but pm me) and what their opinion of the outcome at the embassy and whether they have advised your further. Are they a member of the Bar assn? and a member of AILA?


When you were at the interview, were you told that your file had been reviewed by a supervisor, in other words was the decision made by one person or did others review before you were denied?


Whilst all applications L and E visa were in process, how many days did you/your family spend in the USA from start of L applications to the interview date at the American embassy ?

You do admit that you entered the USA a few days after denial of E visa and failed to tick the box saying you had been denied a visa and deported. The American embassy must have Red Flaged you as they already suspected you were working in the USA without proper visa in passport.

Sorry to say that it is a serious offence to give false information on federal documents and now you have been deported may well need a visa to enter the USA in the future. Any visa will now be difficult to get as when you apply (even for a B visa) you have to declare if you have ever been denied a visa. As soon as you do this they will investigate all whats happened so far and suspect that visa will be denied as they will suspect you intend to live in the usa.



Unless you have overstayed a visa waiver or any other visa I doubt whether you would be subject to a ban from re entering the usa.


I do have reasons for asking the above questions and would like to help you if I can. It may be better for us to carry out discussions via pm's (private messages) for the time being so if you feel I can help please pm your contact details

[Susie]

Wow! I don't what to say to that. I am flabbargasted.

I'm sure others will be able to provide much more practicle advice than I can. I have to say, in terms of any negative attitude you have of the USA, is to make a distinction between the immigration process and the USA generally. One is complete shambles and the other is not.

All I can say I have complete empathy. While I have not suffered the economic loss you have I had to major problems with the USCIS in 2003, which cost me over $40,000 in lost wages and forced me live couch to couch until this was finally sorted, and because of complete and utter incompetence of its staff - which cleary has not changed one little bit. The error took five months to rectify (which I guess I should be "thankful" for), but there was no compenation as a result of the USCIS error. Right now I am yet again dealing USCIS incompetence once again because of an issue with an immigrant visa which they have dealt with in error. I cannot believe how rediculous they are and like others am also rage-filled at your treatment and their lack of ability to see things on "case-by-case" basis.

Aside from the rant about USCIS stupidity (without having mentioned the blatant POE racism in your case), it seems the worst option is for you to wait five years and try again.

If there is a better solution, other members will be better positioned to advise you. Unfortunately I don't even think you have a right to sue in the Federal courts.



Hi Mun

Have you started a thread on your experiences? if not could you start one up so others may be able to benefit from your case issues now or in the future

All I can say at present , there are some cases awaiting a decision, one of which may be able to sue. When the victim and case is public knowledge I will be able to share at that time but not now

[Susie]

While I was being held in a room by security at Orlando Airport waiting to be deported, the security staff gave me some incite as to their thinking. They said that they wished we (meaning British people) would all go home and that we were not needed there. I was flabbergasted. I told them that they would probably not have a job if it was not for the amount of British people that visited Florida per year.

Hi Steve first and foremost there is an ombudsman that you can contact about the people at POE,wish I had known about it when they did what they did to my daughter ,but that is another story.

I to am absolutely appalled at your story,the thing about your childrem being in school,this is definately a big no no as far as I know,can anyone clarify on here whether or not the consular people actually can tell when your children are in school in the USA????????????????the other thing that stands out is the fact that you took on sub-contractors,we were categorically told we had to employ our own staff not subs,again this is an easy mistake to make,what appals me even more is the fact that a business the size of yours would have done so much to boost the economy,it beggars belief to think that all we work and strive for can be taken off us in a heartbeat,can you not get a B Visa to come back in to tie up loose ends,you say you where deported,or where you refused entry apparently there is a difference,they do put you vombudsman ,I cant think of anything else to write at this minute I am so mad,I ask myself the question time and time again why the hell do any of us bother,why not all become illegal we will then get all the help we need,joke absolute bloody joke,dont tqke this lying down Steve fight your cause,let the whole world know if necessarry that they cannot keep treating us as second class citizens,and as for that remark at POE,tell it to the British Media its about time someone did,how dare they treat us like something the cat has dragged in,once again Steve I am so heartily sorry for you and your family,this is another classic example of why we have to landlock ourselves,could be any one of us this happened to,turn this negative into a posite and stand your ground with them,we will all be behind you I am sure:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: Take care


Dee xxx

Hi

There is a proper complaints prceedure and yes one of the people to contact is the ombudsman, I will try and find his web site for you or just do a search on the www.uscis.gov web site

If I were you I would contact the press in the UK and USA if you would like some contact details please pm me or maybe Florida Peter may have some contact numbers for you

[Susie]

Hi

Julie C quoted


One question begs, and that is why your attorney did not file for 1-140/485 as soon as your L1 went into appeal. I have known a lot of people do that and get the green card long before they ever get their L1 appeal decision back. It didnt work for me but that is a different story, i know it can work and was a much more obvious line to take than filing for E2.


Hi Steve

This is a good question! did attorney mention this as a possible option?

[Susie]

V2002 let us not forget, that this is first and foremost an immigration forum.
so now i will say forgive me V2002 if this is not the case but sounds as though you have done a quick google search on BP, bought up their homepage, had a quick read on the very Brief history of BP and gone on from there. What you read is purely for the consumers benefit. If that was the case, why such comanies like HSBC use the name HSBC the world over, Bank of America the same again etc.

so lets move on.


Hi Folkes


Yes agree so can we please keep this thread to Steve story and try not to go off topic, as we must all try to help him if we can

[Susie]

Steve, for once, I HAVE NOTHING TO SAY! How can I? Nothing can heal how you are feeling, nothing! But what a complete B******D at Orlando Airport, how dare he!!????

I have a park near me with a trash can and the words and a picture "save the World!" ONLY America is pictured!!! SAY NO MORE!!!!


Hi

I do feel for Steve and want to help but the man at Orlando airport was only doing his job in this instance because Steve did not declare he was denied a visa, (serious offence) and immigration offiver must have suspected he was trying to buck the system and live in the USA without a visa

Steve

When you were denied entry, did you fill in the Visa waiver form?

[Susie]

I know of at least two people who have adjusted status while under L1 appeal and got their green cards. Neither ever got their L1 appeal back, it can take 18 months, and as they already got their green cards in that time, they were told by their attorney their appeal was now irrelevant All i know is that what is happening on the ground.



Hi

My eldest son had an L visa in renewal. Whilst this was in process he then filed I 140 and I 485

The I 140 and I 485 came back approved and got his green card within a couple of weeks after this approval, however the L visa extension was denied for further review!!

Makes no sense at all

[Susie]

Scared and tearful here.... feeling so sad for you.... Into our extension of L1... green card application imminent....I only want a settled life for my kids ( 2 here, 2 in U.K) U.K kids thier own choice admittedly.... never know whats around the corner


Hi

Nice to meet you recently

Do hope your rewnal goes through quickly. Can I ask how old the other child is in the USA , is she nearing 21 years of age ? if so you should make sure you apply for I 485 for her before she reaches 21 years old otherwise you will have problems

[Susie]

Steve,
Really sorry to hear about your experience, thank you for sharing it. I think there may be a few people who are trying to make it to Florida who never even consider for one moment that they may be accused of working their business, even though they are not and have proof to show it, as in your case.
I know of people out on B visas who did not want to go down the B2-E2 change of status route (as it appears the Embassy look upon this negatively)so they bought a business straight off the bat and put a manager in charge. They then applied for their E-2 through the 'normal route' but are out in Florida for a few months anyway. They are NOT working the business and are waiting for application to go through and are hoping for an interview date in the very near future.
I will forward them this post to warn them of some pitfalls ahead. Has anyone any ideas how they would be able to prove they weren't working? They will obviously be back in the UK before their interview dates come back as their B visa will expire (unless there is a miracle and visas take 8 weeks to process!) so that must work in their favour.

Any thoughts?

Craney


Hi

The only way you can prove you are not working in the business is to stay in home country and employ others to run the company in your absense, this is just IMHO

[Susie]

Craney,

I don't know that there are any answers to this.

It seems as if the interviewing officer had made up his mind and wasn't interested in looking at the tax returns and evidence to prove this and that. It appears that he dismissed it and made up his own ideas of what was happening in the business.
....and so late in the day too.
As we all do, when something isn't understood by someone in front of us, we like to see who's next in charge, or further up their hierarchy. It's a shame that the immigration process doesn't give us this avenue. Claiming that they are busy enough without having to look over denied cases. I understand the reasoning to a certain degree, but clearly in this case, you would like another set of eyes to see the file, or at the very least listen to the further evidence.

Bobby

Hi Bobby

Agree,

I feel that if Steve wants to pursue then the case should be reviewed by another set of eyes, whether that be an immigration attorney, one that specializes in litigation or the BIA

Hi Steve

Did they give you a letter, saying you have 30 days to appeal ? at time of interview or post you a letter since?

[Susie]

Hi Steve,
I'm sorry for you and the situation you find yourselves in - and I wish you all the luck in the world for your next move.
It does seem however that you have been very badly advised not least by your attorney - where's that "protection" for you that the Florida Bar is supposed to offer???
Whilst you undoubtably now regret not declaring your visa denial at the point of entry - again did your attorney offer any support on what and how you should proceed? Or were you left "high and dry" once the attorney wasn't getting more money from you?
You may be able to appeal in terms of arguing "bad advice"??
But I can understand if you just want to move on mate.
Again I wish you the very best of luck for the future.

Hi

It may be possible to make a claim for compensation to the Bar assn


Steve

We do need to talk !!! If you want my help pm your contact details. The more I am reading the more ideas I am coming up with but want a private chat with Steve first

[Susie]

Speaking generally I will say, just because you are lawyer it does not mean you are competent. As long as you take a few courses you remain an active member of the State bar.

When you look for a lawyer do not simply look at the fact they are admitted to the Bar (because all lawyers have to be to practice anyway) and do not simply settle for the fact they are members of AILA. Again that means very little except they most likely practice immigration law.

If you can look at their practice history and see if you can get references as would for others such as builders etc.

I would tend to go for a practice with many lawyers that has been established for many years rather than sole practices where they have less resources and are not diligent on keeping up to date on immigration law.

To you Steve, if you want to go the USA you will but this is not your time yet. I'm sure you're made of some tough stuff (you have to be to deal with what you have) and rebound.



Hi Mun

Ref yourt quote

(because all lawyers have to be to practice anyway)

Not all attornies are members of the bar assn or members on aila and why we should check out the credentials of attornies, good advise

[Susie]

Hi Carol (or Punky if he can move carols posting to her own thread)

Thanks for posting your story, could you do me a favour and start your own thread as I can see this thread for Steve could be on going and need not to get confused with both of your stories

I will get round to replying to your story when I have gone through all replies to Steves story

[Susie]

Steve (and Carol) very troubling and heartwrenching to read your stories. I'm afraid trying to return to the US, Steve, under the circumstances and being detained and deported is going to be a significant problem in the future.

For those of you who have been properly horrified by these stories, let me assure you that I personally have dealt with similar instances - except in these cases it was with US citizens. In one situation I had to extricate a local attorney who handled a closing on a commercial deal from an investigation by the certain Federal law enforcement agents who misrepresented certain information they had to suggest he had done something improper in the transaction. He had months of sleepless nights until it was sorted. In the other a local contractor of Jordanian ancestry who had been in central Florida for over twenty years was performing emergency work on a broken water line near a water treatment plant with his crew around midnight on a Friday when local police detained him because they were suspicious of his presence near the plant - this poor man was held for thirty days on this suspicion. I think we are seeing the true and ugly fallout from 9/11.

I cannot recommend any UK national with minor children to even begin to consider the visa option for the US at this time. Possibly with the change in the administration in Washington, things will improve. In the meantime, you are setting your children and yourselves up for heartbreak and pain. I personally have heard story after story after story of families torn apart and the least you can expect is months of anxiety and sleeplessness.

I don't see any solution at the moment. I think the only reasonable chance of success under the circumstances would be for would-be visa seekers to connect with well-connected US representatives who can help them on a case by case basis.



Hi David and Steve

Steve, it is possible for a senator to take out a private bill for you, if you can get one to support you, doubt if this will happen

But I have other ideas

[Susie]

Hi All, I am new to the site, well not new just been a lurker for a while, after reading this post i had to reply to you.

Oh my god, i drank 3 beers reading that post and I am now onto my 4th feeling tipsy and ready to fight the world, (I know I am a lightweight).......

After reading the forum for a while I know people on the site are trying to fight our corners, this story is horrible, the worst I have heard ever we must all come together no matter what visa people are on and shout and stamp.......!

I am baffled just dont know what to say........

Clecky



Hi and :welcome:

Glad you joined our site and thanks for your comments

Would you please put a posting in the introduce yourself section so we can get to know you

[Susie]

Ohmigod, I wasn't going to post tonight as I am feeling really down myself (lots of personal problems which I wont go into right now) but after reading Steve's and Carol's posts I couldn't stop myself!!

What right does this country have to put us through the mill like this, it is bad enough in ordinary situations to get Visa's without the added hassles that Carol and her family have had to go through. I am feeling so angry and bitter - do they really want to draw blood?!!!

Munish your idea is sooo right; we need to have an early meeting about this. I know Susie is having to deal with her own problems right now, bless her heart, but if she feels unable to cope then we need to all sit down together and discuss some kind of action plan until she is feeling stronger, and knowing her she will soon get the bit between her teeth.

Even when I re-entered the country a couple of weeks ago, I was again hauled aside for questioning - I am a LPR - but there is obviously stuff still on the computer that shows that I overstayed my welcome at some stage (never have) and was meant to have been deleted when we returned from England after Christmas, the lady at POE assured me that it would be dealt with, yeah right!!! Nobody in this godforsaken country gets anything right, I am amazed that it still runs to be honest with you!! The guy I saw this time at POE was great, he felt sorry for me that after a long flight I had to be subjected to this sh.. but said he had been overruled by his Superiors when he had brought it up in the past, he reckoned that they send messages to another Department asking them to deal with it, but nothing gets done. He told me to get a Comment Card and make my feelings known, which I have done so we shall see what transpires next time I leave the country!!

My daughter-in-law was travelling with us with our granddaughter, and it was touch and go whether they allowed them in. Apparently they should have had a letter from my son (who didn't make the trip). In one way I can see it, she explained she was travelling with her son's parents but he was not impressed. Even if my son had given her a letter saying she could bring Heather Rose with her, she could have forged it - my God are they really such imbeciles, alas I think they are!!!!

Sorry to have got onto my personal stuff here, but just trying to make a point about their inability to deal with anything that us Brits see as common sense!!!

With regard to Julie C's comments about L status and then applying for Green Cards. Maybe we were just incredibly lucky (or unfortunate as the case may be) but we were turned down for our renewal, our Attorneys put in an appeal, at the same time applying for Green Cards. We have never heard about our appeal but were granted Green Cards quite quickly in the scheme of things. Nobody told us that there was a time scale for this and that if the Green Cards are not issued within a time-scale then all is lost. I really really don't understand how these Attornies can take our money and not tell us the full facts - is it because they really don't know themselves?

To get back to Steve and Carol, I really really wish you both all the luck in the world, in the case of Steve, America's loss is some other countries gain. and Carol stick with it and if the worst come to the worst, tell them to poke it, this country doesn't deserve you!

Please keep posting and let us know what transpires, it is cases like these that will help us in the long run I think, hope and pray!!!

Love Anniexxx

Hi Annie

Thanks for posting

As I have said to Mun the idea of our own video production (and others) has been discussed and currently being worked on by committee members in the background

So the committee needs more help to achieve and one of the reasons I posted a thread asking for peoples skills so Punky can log them and the committee could call unpon these people for help

This thread has got me very motivated and angry ! but we must run every idea through our committee to arrange. Just wish Mun was living in the USA but there is nothing to stop mun being our oberseas correspondent and contact the media in the UK whilst the committee can concentrate on the US media

I am willing to have a meeting early next week, Maybe coffee afternoon for those wishing to help with the Video production and put up a posting about it.

We also need to get members to buy t -shirts with expatsvoice logo and attend our demonstrations, more annoucements will follow

[Carol]

How rude of me Carol, I forgot my manners in the anger that resulted from reading your story. :welcome:
Thank you for your welcome, I have to agree that something needs to be done
Carol

[Carol]

its awful....
One thing that strikes me as similarities in both stories is that initial processing was done in Texas......being on E2 I don't know if that is the norm for L visa processing? I understand that London don't recognise "Status approval" and if you want the visa you have to do it all in the UK. Does this have any bearing on the appauling treatment of these people?
The warrant thing belies belief. I'd suggest you have a case for wrongful arrest but who'd want to bend themselves out of shape to pursue something like that.
We have a renewal in progress - we don't take a salary but re-invest, my husband was 'arrested" for an alledged speeding offence..I anticipate problems. I just hope we don't get put through the mill like you guys did.
Canada is looking more appealing!
Good Luck with your renewal,we were informed that no one has any authority over homeland securities, and we would not stand a chance trying to go up against them !!!!!
Carol

[Carol]

Thank you all for your replys, I do have to say though I contacted the world and it's brother, MP's, Eurpean MP's, President, Vice president, I sent a letter to everyone in congress !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the list was endless.
I would also like to point out there is an immigration rally at Lake Eola (Orlando area) Tuesday morning 1st May @11.30
Thank you again

[svrinc1]

Hi Bobby

Agree,

I feel that if Steve wants to pursue then the case should be reviewed by another set of eyes, whether that be an immigration attorney, one that specializes in litigation or the BIA

Hi Steve

Did they give you a letter, saying you have 30 days to appeal ? at time of interview or post you a letter since?
Hi,
I was not given any official paperwork of any kind. it was all just verbal
steve

[Susie]

Thank you all for your replys, I do have to say though I contacted the world and it's brother, MP's, Eurpean MP's, President, Vice president, I sent a letter to everyone in congress !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the list was endless.
I would also like to point out there is an immigration rally at Lake Eola (Orlando area) Tuesday morning 1st May @11.30
Thank you again



Hi Carol

Was this a rally by illegal immigrants?

I really feel your case desevers a lot of publicity, if you pm your number I can give you some names and numbers to call

Will you be able to attend our next committee meeting?

[v2002]

Hi,
I was not given any official paperwork of any kind. it was all just verbal
steve
Steve while looking at your case I found this important pc. for you to consider....Ofcourse you need a good attorney why can reduce the paperwork- to the point and precise- so that the visa officer does not get caught in bunch of information and feel lost...& eventually your application ends up in denail.

the information is---Under the E2 visa you can change status from E2 to E5.....
Note: If the investment becomes equal or greater than $500,000, you maybe eligible to petition for permanent immigration status (GREEN CARD) via an EB-5 Visa application.
Looks like if you can comprehend the information correctly you may be able to abtain E5 visa...give it a thought and consult a good attorney.
Evan if you are denied E2( which I think is tech. is not established yet, as you have not been given - a written denail which a US consulate is obliged to do so) Verbal denails do not count.

No one can stop you to apply for E5 visa if you fulfill the requirements.
Good luck.

[Carol]

Hi Carol

Was this a rally by illegal immigrants?

I really feel your case desevers a lot of publicity, if you pm your number I can give you some names and numbers to call

Will you be able to attend our next committee meeting?

Hi Sue
Yes the one at Lake Eola, I did out a seperate post on regarding this, I am hoping to come to one of the meetings in the next few weeks
See you there
Carol

[Susie]

Hi Carol

We are next having a committee meeting on 16th May 2007 at 7-30pm for 8pm start. If you need the venue address just wiz me a pm, hope to see you there


For all members

Please do not forget our committee meetings are open to all but ask to pm me if you wish to attend due to limited space