What constitutes premises for L1?

[OberonSH]

Hi all,

For the purpose of establishing premises for the US side, what does the embassy class as 'premises'? Can you simply have an address that receives and forwards the mail? We won't need an office as such, just somewhere to receive the mail etc and have it forwarded to the UK company.

I'm guessing a PO box won't do, so would a small office in a complex with a redirection on the mail be sufficient?

[peter gold]

the current thoughts on E2 is they want to see a leased premises not sure if the same applies to L's but suspect it does.
I dont think you can redirect mail to the UK. YOu will have to have someone open it and then mail it on with a new stamp

[OberonSH]

That's a bit of a pain, isn't it?

Presumably all the tax bits and bobs (and therefore anything that you really need to see) go to your registered agent anyway, so in theory we could lease a small office somewhere, then ask suppliers etc to send the mail to the UK office rather than the US. Can you think of anything important we'd miss doing it this way?

[tracifrost]

the government need to see actual premises in place!
whether this be freehold, leasehold or whatever hold!
Dont get an office until you are ready to submit the application.
then they will want to see, photos, lease agreement, address and telephone number(s) relating to that office
A residential property isnt what they are asking for, i asked my immigration attorney if we could use, a residential property as part of the lease
he laughed!!!
but it was worth asking, i suppose

[peter gold]

It seems that both the L and E visas now are looking for leased premises.
Thanks Traci

[JulieC]

Virtual offices wont do. There are whole blocks of offices with tiny empty units rented out to visa people who never use them, people are making a living out of renting these out it. We had one such in Celebration, not enough room really to swing a cat in it!! They want to see pictures of the office for L1, so a picture of the front, reception area, sign in the foyer with your name on, sign on your office door etc. For E2 I think a copy of a lease does. It is all a lot of poppycock which just generates revenue for landlords and knocks businesses profits needlessly as many businesses operate better from home but what can you say.

[Munish]

What is stopping people who rent out "office" space from subleasing or "sharing" the businss premises so they are not throwing away money?

[Kriz1]

If you all get me an office...I can be in reception taking all your calls...:)

[Bobby]

I am on L-1 and have never shown any pictures of the leased premises from my original application.

The request for further evidence asked for the square footage and usage of the whole building, to go with the lease I submitted as evidence of premises, but never needed to photograph anything.

On our renewal we had bought a commercial building and DID submit pictures of that, but it was only a shell needing complete rehab, so not sure if it helped or hindered.

I think as long as you have a signed lease and the address, along with perhaps a brief outline of what the other parts of the building are used for then that's suffice. Like it it's a strip mall, or an office building, or free standing shop front etc.

Bobby

[Susie]

Think Steve and Zoe had a lease on storage unit where they kept their chemicals. So maybe just a lease on a storge unit would do and have an office at home. I know some storage units are fully airconditioned so you should be able to have you imported good there, not sure if any of our 3 units have a power point, guess you will need on for fridge/freezer

[OberonSH]

Thanks for your replies guys. It's all a bit of a pain, as we wanted to get the USA - UK side set up to give us a better shot plus a longer time before renewal (if the US is running for a year, I believe it gets you a 2-3 year visa rather than 1 year, so a bit of extra breathing space), but guess it'll be a lot easier to wait until we actually go over, and rely on the UK side to get the visa for a year to start.

We don;t need anything special for the food imports, as we don't deal in anything fresh. Just somewhere coolish for the chocolate.

[chris]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but aren't we talking about what is effectively a virtual business here, not just a virtual office?
It has been stated that 'we just need somewhere for mail to go and then sent to the UK'. Surely the whole pointy of establishing a business in the US is that you have a physical presence in everysense of the word.
Whilst some business may not need a physical set of premises, to operate - property management companies, cleaning companies are cases in point. They all need people, whether directs or subbys, to function. From what I see in this thread, we are talking about a non-existent physical business in the US, with no workers this side of the pond.
I may be setting the cat amongst the pigeons here, but surely this is not in the spirit of the visa system L, E or otherwise and does no favors with the Embassy for the Brit businesses that seek to establish here with a physical presence and workers. Just my opinion from what I read in the is thread.

[OberonSH]

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick mate. If you read my other posts, you'll realalise that we have a physical business, exporting british goods to the US. We're trying to set up importing US goods to the UK, and it will be trading, it will be buying products from the US suppliers, and shipping them over to the UK. Not much virtual about that. We're based in the UK, and until we get our visas there won't be anyone at the US office, hence the need to have the mail sent to the UK. Chicken & Egg.

I see where you might be confused, but I take great offense at your comments that we might be 'doing no favours with the Embassy for the Brit businesses that seek to establish here with a physical presence and workers'. We're simply trying to find a way to run our business without having to spend money needlessly.

[chris]

Oberon,
I'm not trying to offend anyone.
I've read the posts on this thread and commenting based on what I read.
I know your business is exporting stuff from the UK to the USA and that you have a physical presence in the UK, you made that plain. But whether it is E or L, there has to be a physical presence in the USA, in the form of people, not necessarily premises. Otherwise what business is operating in the US?
I have seen it the otherway around where people are here in the US running their US business and have a UK business, but the UK business is at a UK home and using VOIP have a virtual UK number which is actually in the US. That may be working for them, but is it in the 'spirit' of the Act? Or are some folks trying to outsmart the Embassy.
The whole point of the L visa is that 'someone' is in the US developing the US operation. In your stated case, you are making it very plain that you want to do it from the UK. That is not within the 'spirit' I mentioned.

[Kriz1]

Maybe I got it wrong..but I thought OberonSH
was starting or running already a company in the UK that could help get a L1 so they could move to the USA to start the USA side....

[OberonSH]

Can I quote the FAM Handbook?

“Qualifying organization” means a U.S. or foreign firm, corporation, or other
legal entity which:
(1) Meets exactly one of the qualifying relationships specified in the
definitions of a parent, branch, affiliate or subsidiary;
(2) Is or will be doing business (engaging in international trade is not
required) as an employer in the United States and in at least one
other country, directly or through a parent, branch, affiliate, or
subsidiary for the duration of the alien’s stay in the United States as
an intra-company transferee; and
(3) Otherwise meets the requirements of INA 101(a)(15)(L).

Doesn't say anything about the US side having to have employees. Which it would anyway. Us, but based in the UK.

You also claim that 'But whether it is E or L, there has to be a physical presence in the USA, in the form of people, not necessarily premises.' But in the answers given above, it's pretty obvious that we will need premises.

We're not trying to 'outsmart' the embassy. We're simply trying to ascertain what we need to set our business up right to ensure maximum chance of success, without having to shell out money we don't need to. 'Spirit' of the thing or not, I'm not going to waste money on things I don't need to.

[OberonSH]

Kriz - we are. I was merely trying to ascertain the steps if we wanted to set up the US side ahead of time!!! Of course we can do all this when we get out there, I just wanted to see how much hassle it would be to get it running now, and thus have the possibility of getting a longer visa, as you can do if your US side has been running a year.

[Bobby]

Can I quote the FAM Handbook?

“Qualifying organization” means a U.S. or foreign firm, corporation, or other
legal entity which:


(2) Is or will be doing business (engaging in international trade is not
required) as an employer in the United States and in at least one
other country, directly or through a parent, branch, affiliate, or
subsidiary for the duration of the alien’s stay in the United States as
an intra-company transferee; and

Doesn't say anything about the US side having to have employees. Which it would anyway. Us, but based in the UK.



Have I misread this? ...or have you?

You said it doesn't say anything about employees, but the part you've quoted says quite clearly to me "as an employer in the United States"
That to me constitutes the need for American based employees??

No???

Just wouldn't want you or anyone else going down the wrong path.

Bobby

[OberonSH]

Ah...missed that. :sorry:

In that case a hearty apology to Chris. :notworthy:


So how on earth do people get on with that then? The only option you have then is to go on a start up?

[Bobby]

Whichever way you decide to do it, I think it's accepted that the purpose of the L-1 visa is to place an executive of the existing foreign business in charge of the new US (or existing) entity.

Not like E visas where a family team can up sticks and buy a business and run it "in house" until they can expand and bring in some employees. The business associated with the L visa must (IMHO) have staff of some description otherwise you're not exactly an executive manager are you? ...just the manager. Yes, ...I know that there are people who have got their L-1s with no staff, just subs etc. and I have no idea how their business was structured so cannot comment, but from what the guidelines are, those were remarkable cases, and not the way I'd choose to set up.

I remember my paperwork was riddled with proving that I was being sent "to manage the managers" and to show a staff network that proved such.

I don't think the L visa can be used the way you have proposed above. I think what you have portrayed is a "cake and eat it" scenario.
IMHO, I don't think they want someone from another country "setting up" ....taking the money and channeling it back to another country.
They want investment, creation of employment etc. etc.

Bobby

[OberonSH]

I can see your point, I was't sure, which is why I asked. I'm not wanting to 'channel' money away, it's simply to get a head start on the US side, which we'll be setting up when we get there anyways.

It's probably best to put it all off until we get there. Which is a shame, but there you go.

[chris]

Oberon,
The advice given by any member on this forum is simply advice. It is not professional advice and I certainly would not make or put off business decisions based purely on advice given by this or any other forum. A good VA will tell you whether or not your plan is workable or not.
My understanding of business in the USA by a foreigner is that their is no law which says you can't own a business here, but without the proper visa and /or EAD's you cannot work or operate within that business. That being the case, a business in existence here in the USA can only operate here if you either have employees here working on your behalf or you have the necessary paperwork to work here. If you cannot satisfy one or the other, then how can the business function?
A possible alternative might be to have an appointed agent here in the USA working on your behalf. Exporters work in this way all the time. When the biz has grown to the stage you feel comfrotable with viz visa application, then the agenct agreement morphs into the biz proper. Just a suggestion.

[tracifrost]

Hi i can totally see what oberonSH is trying to do here, save time money, effort, be realistic etc. etc. etc.
Also from a greencard point of view, once the company has been running for over a year, you can apply for a greencard.
However some of the basis of this plan works and some of it doesnt!
You see if you are coming over to the US as you all know, on an L1 start-up company, then the inital visa is for one year. After that year, if you meet all the criteria and your company is doing exceptionally well you can apply for the greencard, after one year.
But in order to do this, you have to actually come over, establish actual premises for yourself and be active in what is called an executive position.
Then once being active in the US for one year in that executive postion, then employing a manager, as bobby mentioned earlier, the L1 you are the manager of managers, so technically you shouldnt really employee your average employee, but a manager, you in the executive postion oversee the manager and the company! hope this all makes sense.

[anniefromessex]

I hate it when I do this cos I an never totally sure that I am right, but a friend of mine, bearing in mind she was applying for an E-2 Visa bought her business before moving over (it was a chicken and egg situation), they were eventually agreed E-2 for 2 years, but one of the questions they asked her when attending the interview was "I hope you haven't been taking wages from the business". I didn't know you couldnt. Has anyone else experienced that?!!

Love Anniexx

[OberonSH]

Thanks Chris, I know it's all just IMHO etc, but to be honest, we're having problems sourcing suppliers as well. The idea of getting the US side running was only the icing on the cake, as we reckon our application based on the current UK company will be strong enough. KJust being greedy I guess!

On the agent idea, we couldn't really use that in the application as the handbook states the US company cannot be an agent. We could get it all registered etc but like I said, with having so much trouble finding suppliers, shipping agents etc it's all a bit much. We'll just wait til we get over there, and use the idea in our business plan.

Thanks for all the kind comments people, it's coming together slowly but surely.

[chris]

Oberon,
The part about employing staff that you quoted from the FAM rules. If you ignore the bits in brackets and then reread it, it states is or will be an employer in the USA. So what Bobby said is correct. Basically with the L you cme over and establish the biz, but you are in the managerial driving seat , hence that you are a specialist manager. From that driving seat you grow the biz as you would any other, with employing staff being part of that plan. But you have to have some bodies over here, whether it's you with your L or you employ a Manager to do the initial leg work.
On another tack, if your are having difficulties with sourcing suppliers for exporting stuff from the USA to the UK, how about a sales distribution arm of the UK biz in the USA to move your UK product over here. Also the US biz can be something completely different to what you do in the UK.
This is now a reply to Annie from Essex about deriving wages from a US biz if you haven't got an E2 visa. Yes, you could not draw 'wages per se, because to do that you would have to be an employee and to do that you need a visa. However, as the owner of the biz, you can derive financial reward from owning the biz, I would guess such as dividends on profits. If you own a 2nd home in the US and rent it out, then you own and run a US biz. Whilst you don't take wages, if the rental makes a profit, then you derive reward from it, but you don't need a visa to benefit from it. I would argue it is the same scenario for both. Both are US biz's owned by a foreigner.

[OberonSH]

Hi Chris,

I understand the manegerial bits about the L1, We'll be employing when we come over, as hopefully we'll have a cafe to add to the export/import biz. However, I was trying to find a way of setting it up ahead of time without the bodies. Thanks for your input, though, been taken on board.