Woman put in chains and deported at JFK-Visa Waiver !

[Susie]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/global/main.jhtml?xml=/global/2004/05/09/njfk.xml


Woman chained up on arrival at JFK
By John Crowley
Last Updated: 12:01am BST 09/05/2004



A woman who claims she was kept in "leg chains" for 16 hours after flying to JFK airport in New York last month said her experience resembled that of an accountant who made similar allegations in last week's Daily Telegraph.

Marie Casafina, 26, said immigration officials cuffed her legs to a chair because she did not state on her visa-waiver form that she had previously been denied entry to the US. She was deported less than 24 hours later.

Miss Casafina, who was born in France but now lives in Cambridge, said she was subjected to "humiliating and unfair" treatment by the American authorities. She arrived on April 12 for what was supposed to be a five-day break with her British fiancé after flying business class from Heathrow.

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"I did not understand how I could go so quickly from flying to New York on holiday to being leg-cuffed to a chair," she said.

"It was supposed to be a honeymoon because we were not going to have time to get away after we married. But instead I was treated like a criminal."

Miss Casafina was told she needed a visa because she had been refused entry on an earlier visit.

"I was crying but they would not listen to me," she said. "I was led away in handcuffs through the terminal. After being brought to a room with some other people, I cuffed to a chair. I was given no access to legal advice or to my partner."

Miss Casafina, who has a three-year-old daughter, admitted she made an honest mistake by not declaring her previous denial of entry but said her treatment was still unjustified.

"Five years ago, immigration officials did not allow me to go through Detroit when I said I was visiting friends on holiday," she explained. "Six weeks previously I'd spent some time travelling in Washington and Virginia, and returning so quickly raised suspicions that I was looking for work. I showed them my return ticket but it made no difference. They put me on a plane back home three hours later, but they never mentioned that I needed a visa to return."

On her recent New York trip, however, Miss Casafina was told at immigration that she should have applied for a visa because she had been refused entry before. "I should also have declared this on my visa-waiver form, which I accept," she said, "but nobody deserves to be treated as I was. Thank God we did not bring our daughter with us."

Miss Casafina contacted The Daily Telegraph after David Pattison, 52, an accountant from Norfolk, claimed he was kept in leg chains and denied food and water for more than 24 hours by JFK immigration staff last month. We are receiving an increasing number of complaints from readers about difficulties when entering the United States.

Strict new security and visa rules put in place since the September 11 attacks have triggered a 30 per cent drop in overseas visitors, the Bush administration admitted last month.

A JFK spokesman said that there was an investigation into Mr Pattison's claims and that the new allegations by Miss Casafina would be examined.

[Munish]

The fact she lied about being denied entry before on the form makes me think there is more to this than meets the eye. I have no sympathy for anyone who knowingly lies or uses fraud as looks to be the case here.

While being chained may be excessive she was treated like a criminal because she committed a crime by lying.

[Susie]

Hi Mun

Agree she did wrong by not ticking the correct box but to chain someone up for 16 hours is too ott.

Being in the Met in the UK I know that police officers are only allowed to use reasonable force, think this was a bit ott even though she did wrong. The police out here are too gun hoe and seem to think its ok to use force, they cuff people first then ask questions.


The subject of #are you allowed for attoney visit at airport# came up in another thread, this is what worries me in this report, she says she was not allowed one.

If this part is true then it seems ,we cannot request legal advise at airport and to me should be a basic human right to do so

[Kriz1]

She lied...so she knew she had done wrong...she was chained so she would not do a runner...that was a little over the top...but then I have no idea if runners are common...

[byjove]

hhmmmmmm

The other guy said no food or water for 24 hours! If they deny this basic human right then what hope is there of getting a lawyer in????

[Kriz1]

Now no food and water is way way over the top....I don't care what you have done...

[jay]

She lied...so she knew she had done wrong...she was chained so she would not do a runner...that was a little over the top...but then I have no idea if runners are common...


Kriz yes she lied, but where would she do a runner to LOL, have you ever been taken in that part of the airport, you cant run anywhere theres nowhere to run. and if you did manage to getout of the room you wouldnt get far.


As for the food and drink(I take it they mean water not alcohol to steady your nerves) this is not the 1st time I have heared of this, Dee's daughter and grandson had this done to them as well, untill you walk out of the airport doors you are not on American soil, I think its called nomans land and you have every right to a lawyer.
jayne

[McSporran]

She committed a crime, and is now moaning because she was caught, remember we only have her side of this (and the other guys too), it's not fact that anyone was in leg chains for an extended length of time or denied anything...just the criminal going for the sypathy vote. It is fact that she committed an offense - for which the punishment is deportation (you would think after the last time...she would know this!!)

If she was in leg chains, they may have had good reason to - for all we know.

I know the POE's dont always use reason, common sense or intelligence, but we only have 1 side of this particular story and we need to remember - it's because of people lying on these forms that we all get a hard time.:mad:

Sorry - but I have no sypathy for her or anyone who lies on these matters - it impacts on all of us trying to do the right thing.

[byjove]

Unless the "crime" was to hurt someone, be a danger to themselves or to others. Chains and no food or water, is uncalled for and a crime in itself. But I see no chains on the officers!

And I would errmm on the side that it did actually happen and is a fact, as other members have complained of exactly the same thing. Would you only accept the fact if you saw it with your own eyes?

[DEE F]

Dont even get me started .................................................


Dee x

[Munish]

I often hear the phrase "when in Rome..." The USA is a democracy and its people choose this immigration system and laws regardless of how flawed it is. There are aspects of it that many people do not like, including me so I make effort to help change it. It may not get anywhere but I did it within the confines of the law.

What has to be stopped is the abuses of power against people who have not committed any wrongs such as in relation to Dee, Anniefromessex and their families.

What I could not care less are the consequences for people who lie and attempt to breach US security and therefore making it more difficult for those of who abide by the laws. The UK could do well to learn from the serious consequences for crimes that occur in the USA and may be we might have a more civilised and respectful society rather than people who knowingly lie to make things easy for themselves and then cry when they get caught.

People on this forum have acted legally and had their families breakup though lifetime bans through abuses of power - so why wasn't she given one. In fact she should be lucky she get did not get worse treatment like being tried and prisoned or receiving a lifetime ban.

[Kriz1]

As much as I hate the fact of being put in handcuffs for something small in the USA...we all know that happens...we learn to live with it or move and visit somewhere else...

She lied...and making a fuss will only lump her case in with everyone who have come here legal and had something bad happen to them at POE...and the more people who lie the harder it will become for all those legal people in the future...its not like she had not been to the USA before...if I had been turned away once...I would take time to look into what visa I would need in the future...and I would on no account tick a box no if the answer to the question was yes...

[chris]

What is more interesting here is the fact that the Bush lot are now saying that visitors have dropped 30 per cent. Last year they were quoting 17%. Doesn't that say something to most people?
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the USA and the POE morons will only wake up when the arrivals halls are empty. By then it will be too late.

[Kriz1]

We have a lot more Brits up here on holiday now than we ever had in the past..not sure if they live in the USA or come from the UK...can't really go up to everyone and ask...I'll get locked up...:o :o

[byjove]

But she became this criminal because previous to this visit, she wanted to come over on holiday, too soon after being over before!!!! Not because she robbed a bank. Ok! She didnt tick a box on the form, this was stupid on her part. She should have seeked advise on being turned away 5 years ago, but hind sight is an exact science. We all need to keep in the back of our minds, and as stupid as it seems, admitance to the USA lays in the hands of the immigration official at the time, entry is a favor and not a right. We read the article on someone we dont know and are suspicious straight away of the motives for her not claiming refusal before. We defend the other memebrs on this site because we know them. We should support each other, remember there are no strangers, just friends (and future expat memebers) we havent met yet. :)

It is scarey that we are hearing more and more of this kind of treatment.

[Kriz1]

I'm on holiday forums where so many people trust to luck they will not be found out...so its easy to be suspicious...a lot are told by their tour company they may need a visa...but still they take the chance...

[Kriz1]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/04/29/njfk29.xml

Now this is a case where someone is if you go by the report mistreated...she saw this and got on the bandwagon...but that is just my 2 cents...

If we want to win the war..we have to pick the right battles..

[jon06]

She is not a criminal and has not committed any crime on the info given! She was not convicted or charged with any crime. If the US really thinks that heavy handed treatment of 'regular' travellers is defeating the 'war' on terror they are mistaken.

[anniefromessex]

As Dee said, please dont get me started. Until something like this happens to you then you have NO IDEA how bad it can be!!

Byjove you are right in what you say in your first sentence she was treated as a criminal because she had come out earlier and was returning too soon for the likes of Homeland Security. They are paranoid I tell you, just because of what happened on September 11th (and believe you me I was as sick at heart as anyone here) but they treat ordinary people who are coming over here as a family on perhaps a once in a lifetime holiday as terrorists and that is what is sooo sickening and people will vote with their feet, they don't need to deal with delays at the airport, they don't need to deal with the long flight, they don't need to deal with the idiots at Immigration, they don't need to deal with the cost, why - because there are other places in the world apart from America and until they realise that then they don't stand a chance. Word does get around and then who will be crying!!!

Okay, my son didn't do everything right but after bad advice he was damned whatever way he went, but please don't everybody on here get all righteous and pious because you do what you have to do and nobody until it happens to them really knows what way they would go!! We can all be righteous after the fact but I wonder just how many of you would have tried to bend the rules a little so you got the result you wanted - just look into your phyche!!

Love Anniexxx

[DEE F]

I have read this thread a couple of times now,and wasnt going to comment on it any further,because anyone who knows me ,knows my feelings on POE,for instance anyone given as much power as these people have,and blatantly abuse it,which they do,this is no way an isolated incident,it just astounds me that people still make excuses for them,at the end of the day regardless of what this woman did or didnt do,they still have no right to have treated her the way they did,leg irons for god sake ,have I been asleep and we have somehow travelled back to medieval times!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Until this particular body of people have some basic training in people skills and humanity,they will carry on doing what they are doing,because they think it is the only way to treat people that do not fit into their boxes,any one who has got the power to intimidate women and children and allowed to get away with it,then in my opinion something is radically wrong ,there are things called human rights,and the sooner the people at POE realise that ,the better things will be for all of us.


Dee

[Tina]

Think I've said this before on another thread somewhere, but these people who strut their stuff at POE are just jobsworths on minimum wage :mad:

[peter gold]

I agree with the first part , but not the second. They are actually paid well with excellent benefits and holidays.
My UK born son soon to be US citizen is considering a job with Homeland Security and staring salary for a graduate is $38,000 and benefits

[SHEILA 13]

Pity we all cant get a job with them,paid holidays whats that ??????????;)

[Tina]

I agree with the first part , but not the second. They are actually paid well with excellent benefits and holidays.

Interesting......my info came from an American friend of mine, but I'm always willing to stand corrected ;)

[byjove]

Yes Annie! It is all bacause of September 11. They have the first and only attack on their own soil and all hell breaks loose. Lets face it as brits, we ALL grew up with the thought that it could be the last day if you went to london or Manchester or any of the big towns, and that was due to the IRA. We grew up with it!!!!!! But it didnt stop us letting in people from Ireland, suspictious of any one with out an English accent. Or stopping us from going to the major towns. When the bombings happened in London a couple of years ago, what happened? That afternoon, EVERYONE went on about their business, back on trains, buses the lot. If it had happened here the companies would go bust! I know many many people who would not get on a plane in case it was hijacked. So yes, the paranioa is extreme to included English people coming over for their holiday, and treating us like cattle. But it does come down to the Hitler syndrom just a little power makes somepeople crazy! I am so sorry Annie and Dee, it should NEVER have happened what has happened to you and your family and especially not at the hands of some power crazed bigot. I wish their was some kind of appeal system, where you could proove the officer wrong in your intent to visit. Or some kind of bonding system to proove you do not intend to stay.

[byjove]

Oh! And to cap it all off, where did most of the funding for the IRA come from????

THE USA!!!!!!

[Kriz1]

I agree with the first part , but not the second. They are actually paid well with excellent benefits and holidays.
My UK born son soon to be US citizen is considering a job with Homeland Security and staring salary for a graduate is $38,000 and benefits

I've also been thinking about it...thought it would be nice for people to have someone English around...I keep thinking about brushing up on the old Spanish and French too...but I can't remember English that well anymore...:rofl:

[byjove]

hhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmm!! Meez aczent iz zlippin abeet too Kriz!

[Bobby]

The woman in question was probably cuffed to the chair because she was gobbing off. You know what women are like !! ;) Can't stay quiet for a second, and under those circumstances she probably kicked off and had to be restrained.

She'd missed it off her form deliberately, and got caught, then expects people to be nice to her in a foreign country that she was trying to dupe. Why didn't she just declare she'd been denied?? I've done it loads of times.

The only thing now is, people read this and think it's the norm. They don't see what's behind the story, and that if you play by the rules you wont be subject to this sort of treatment at all.

Bobby
_________________________________________
Just telling it like it is! ....as usual.

[DEE F]

The woman in question was probably cuffed to the chair because she was gobbing off. You know what women are like !! ;) Can't stay quiet for a second, and under those circumstances she probably kicked off and had to be restrained.

She'd missed it off her form deliberately, and got caught, then expects people to be nice to her in a foreign country that she was trying to dupe. Why didn't she just declare she'd been denied?? I've done it loads of times.

The only thing now is, people read this and think it's the norm. They don't see what's behind the story, and that if you play by the rules you wont be subject to this sort of treatment at all.

Bobby
_________________________________________
Just telling it like it is! ....as usual.

Bobby what can I say,if it wasnt for the fact that you make me laugh out loud with your posts ,I think I would have to come round and strangle you with your own own necktie(but I will save the kinky stuff for the bedroom:rofl: ) however !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the USA is supposed to be one of the most civilised countries................however to be putting people in leg-irons as I said rightly or wrongly,they make themselves out to be no better than the 3rd world countries run by dictators,and whether she was gobby or not,she still should not have been treated like an animal,and I speak from first hand experience,no way was my daughter being "gobby" she was too bloody terrified,and as for my then 8 year old grandson,well I suppose his threatening looking spiderman backback could have caused suspicion and warrented them refusing him water an dthrowing him down in a chair whilst subjecting his mother to total intimidation,and just to refresh your memories all she had done was come in on the vwp and she was accused of living and working here,because her parents were here,they flatter themselves really.


Dee x

[Munish]

Hi Peter, do you also have to be a graduate to apply for a POE job does it? Had no idea.

Dee, don't compare your daughter with this woman - unless she also intentionally lied (in which case any sympathy I have is gone). In my eyes, if the report is true, it's visa fraud because she intentionally lied - even if some consider it a white lie, a lie is still that. If she was reckless or made a mistake I might see things differently, but I can't see how. Lies, damn lies.

[peter gold]

Munish
No you do not need to be a graduate. A graduate entry program for Homeland Security exists and you can do border patrol or POE

[McSporran]

Hi Dee,

I don't think anyone would ever say that your daughter was treated fairly (to say the very least) - and also relatives of others on here the same. But I do think that the people like this woman in the story (and the guy who posted on here after his E-2 was denied and has been turned away) are part of the problem, and IMHO - making it worse.

These are not people in the same situation as your daughter...they are trying to break the law, and are falsifying information. If no one had ever been caught giving false information at the boarder - then half the checks all the law abiding visitors etc have to go through now wouldn't be in place. I'm with Munish - Visa Fraud is Visa Fraud.

I know my last post on this sounded harsh - and I know the POE's bod's are certainly not blameless, and certainly don't always act in the manner they should (far from it) and I'm certainly not trying to excuse their behaviour. But in the same way - there is no excuse for this womans behaviour either, the people falsifying information make so mad - they are contributing to the problems we all have, not just at the POE but with the visa system/processing in general, and instead of feeling sorry for them - I personally would hold them accountable for your daughters (and others on here's) treatment at the boarders.

[Tina]

just to refresh your memories all she had done was come in on the vwp and she was accused of living and working here,because her parents were here
Dee x


This must be a constant source of worry for all of us who have adult children coming out here to visit us. I know when my son & daughter-in-law & baby grandson came last month, I was a nervous wreck waiting outside those sliding doors at Sanford, waiting for them to come through. It didn't help that the flight had arrived and after an hour and a half they still hadn't appeared, turns out they were just waiting for their luggage. But I had to tell them before they flew out here...."just answer any questions honestly, but don't volunteer any information they don't ask for.....don't tell them you have relatives here if they don't ask".....shouldn't be this way should it? :(

[anniefromessex]

You don't even have to lie to be deported, I know from first hand experience. My son certainly never lied and look what happened to him!!

Love Anniexxx

[McSporran]

Hi Annie,

I totally agree...but the more people they catch lying the more they will assume everyone is doing the same, ergo - everyone is treated like a criminal/fraudster.

Thats why the people who do lie make my blood boil :mad: - and I offer them no comfort or support.

[Munish]

You don't even have to lie to be deported, I know from first hand experience. My son certainly never lied and look what happened to him!!

Love Anniexxx

Hi Annie, I think all of us have every sympathy for that. However, not all of us have any sympathy whatsoever for the woman who lied on the form.

What I think most of us agree on is that the POE is not an effective process. On the plus/positive side many people get in who rightfully should be allowed and liars get caught.

But on the minus/negative side (which has to be addressed but probably won't be), is that innocent people get deported and this screws up future visits and people who lie slip through and enter the usa either on a VWP undetected or with a fraudulently obtained visa. There is no appeal process for aliens which is the real problem.

It used to be common with student visas where fake schools provided documentation necessary to obtain F1 visas. Fortunately things have improved on that front but who knows how many other ways people are being deceitful. Mbdriver also mentioned the abuse of the H1-B system on the other thread. The real crooks often seem to get away with it but the innocents get burned because of a shoddy security system.

[anniefromessex]

Hi Mun,

As I have said before our whole lives have been turned upside down because of Immigration and their rules and regulations. I do not have problems with rules and regulations at all, after all that is what makes the world go round, what I do have a problem with at this moment in time and I know I have said it before and I will say it again and again, is that people such as ourselves and my son, in particular, would cause no threat to this country - he bought a house, furniture, lived the life and paid for that life himself. Nobody gave him a red cent, he wouldn't have expected it. We wanted to hire school-leavers and teach them the old school way of doing things, ie turning up when you say you will, giving a fair days work for a fair days money, doing a good job, tidying up after yourselves and generally giving what most people in this country say they don't get, and that is service!! I have said it before, they are scared of us because they don't know sh.. from clay as far as I am concerned - I don't want to generalise, there are good and bad here as there are in other countries, but I for one have never come across such an undisciplined work ethic as we have found here.

I hope my new best friend on the forum - mbdriver, reads this post and perhaps it will give him some idea of why I am so bitter and disillusioned with America. No, I have never ever come out here to ponce off America (you couldn't if you come from England anyway), I don't want them to give me anything - so far all the giving has been on our part, I realise I have no God given right to be here, but I am sick and tired of being treated as a second class citizen by POE and the Embassy in England. My son was going to buy a new car, a new house, okay all the trappings for him, but something the illegals don't give to this country so what is their problem. I just wish the people who go to England were willing to give that, instead all they do is undercut everybody else, then when the honest home grown citizens of that country go under, they then put up their prices and laugh all the way to the Bank.

Yes, I am bitter and I have every reason to be - we are all here working like we have never worked before and we are meant to be grateful for a few crumbs - unless you become a USC you never ever get those crumbs - yes, the weather is good, yes most people are friendly and I personally love the life over here, but it is not fair that we are treated as we are when we probably put more into their economy than anybody else.

My daughter in law who goes to the Embassy on 12th June has been filling in her DS156 - I have told her to be totally truthful in all that she says, but I can guarantee you she only has a 50/50 chance of getting in - even though all she wants is to pack up her home and get it shipped back to England, but when have they ever used common sense; all this because of people like somebody very well known to this forum who gave us duff information in the first place, therefore being damned if we did, damned if we didn't!!

Dee has stated on here the way her daughter was treated, there was absolutely no need for that, as there was no need for my son and his family to be treated the way they were, we were there and I was going through the same sh.. because I had been backwards and forwards on VWP even though my husband held a Green Card - unless you have been through it nobody on here has any right to offer an opinion in any way shape or form - we had done nothing wrong, as Dee's daughter and grandson hadn't, but we were treated worse than criminals, at least they can call a lawyer. My son had return tickets to England for the Sunday (this was the Friday) just what threat do they think he would have been. Again no common sense. They have a job to do, no arguments against that, but in that job surely fair play, common sense and humanity should come into force - I just hope those people can sleep at night, no, in actual fact I hope they have nightmares for the rest of their lives, that is what they deserve, because we still do!!

Enough said.

Love Anniexxx

[Carol]

hhmmmmmm

The other guy said no food or water for 24 hours! If they deny this basic human right then what hope is there of getting a lawyer in????

Absolutly None when they arrested my husband he wasn't aloud a phone call nothing, I got the british embassy involved they put a complaint in, seemingly homeland securities are supposed to inform the british embassy straight away when they detain a british citizen, but it still took them three days to release him he had no idea how long he had been locked up as they kept him in a pod, all the lights are on all the time. When it came to light it was even him they wanted !! see American dream I attached my story to that one, it was a disgrace. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:fit:

[Sharon]

quote byjove



Unless the "crime" was to hurt someone, be a danger to themselves or to others. Chains and no food or water, is uncalled for and a crime in itself.



Agree, unless this woman was a threat to herself or others then the treatment is disgraceful. If it is true she was not given food that is disgusting.

Ok so she did wrong but she was hardly a terrorist or mass murderer

[Sharon]

Absolutly None when they arrested my husband he wasn't aloud a phone call nothing, I got the british embassy involved they put a complaint in, seemingly homeland securities are supposed to inform the british embassy straight away when they detain a british citizen, but it still took them three days to release him he had no idea how long he had been locked up as they kept him in a pod, all the lights are on all the time. When it came to light it was even him they wanted !! see American dream I attached my story to that one, it was a disgrace. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:fit:

If this was wrongful arrest can you sue?

[anniefromessex]

Sharon,

You have hit the nail on the head, this lady wasn't a terrorist, she wasn't a threat to this country, so why do they need such a heavy handed attitude, it makes no sense to me at all.

Love Anniexxx

[Carol]

If this was wrongful arrest can you sue?

Hi
No they hide behind 9/11 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no one can !! as I say they have an ombusman but that is a joke, and you can't not Sue homeland securities!!!
Carol:fit:

[Sharon]

Carol,

Have you spoken to a lawyer about this wrongful arrest? Did you get a letter saying sorry? I thought anyone could sue anyone in the usa

[Kriz1]

Maybe you could sue an officer...if they have a code of prictice...then you could maybe sue just the one person or persons...not homeland security itself...

[byjove]

kriz, was that a freudian slip?

if they have a code of prictice

[Kriz1]

kriz, was that a freudian slip?

if they have a code of prictice

:rofl: :rofl:

[Sharon]

Hi
No they hide behind 9/11 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no one can !! as I say they have an ombusman but that is a joke, and you can't not Sue homeland securities!!!
Carol:fit:



But did the police arrest your husband? If so in the UK you can sue for wrongful arrest

Was the wronful arrest for immigration fraud or a crimal offence?

[Carol]

But did the police arrest your husband? If so in the UK you can sue for wrongful arrest

Was the wronful arrest for immigration fraud or a crimal offence?

Hi Sharon,
Yes they arrested him on the aircraft if you don't mind !!! they marched him off in front of all the holiday makers !!! I did speak with an attorney but we where advised not to, as you would have to sue the individual, you can not sue Homeland securties,!!!!

[Carol]

Hi Sharon,
Yes they arrested him on the aircraft if you don't mind !!! they marched him off in front of all the holiday makers !!! I did speak with an attorney but we where advised not to, as you would have to sue the individual, you can not sue Homeland securties,!!!!

Oh and it was for a check for $190 dollar which they thought was Chris's, yes one hundred and ninty dollars, It wasn't Chris's Cheque, don't know if it was criminal or fraud

[Susie]

Hi Carol

I am confused.

If the police arrested your husband then I cannot see any reason why you could not sue the police. In the UK think we sue the commissionerof the Met

Just so you know I am currently suing (called complaint in USA) Dept of state, national visa centre, director of Texas service centre, and loads more. Cannot discuss case on open forum as legal proceedings pending and need to take place but just letting you know it can be done as I am doing it

[InnVic]

it wouldn't fly as wrongful arrest as the arresting officer had reasonable belief that a crime had been committed. A bad check was passed and was passed off as coming from your husband. If everyone that was arrested and subsequently found to be innocent was able to sue ther police would stop arresting anyone suspicious. It is unfortunate that innocent people can occassionally be subject to this, and I'm not saying its fair, but as long as the circumstances justify an arrest and procedure if followed then it is perfectly legal.

[Ray10]

What happened in the 2 cases of handcuffing and shackling happened
back in 2004 ...Why would they be of interest now?? ...

[DEE F]

Becase Ray,nothing has changed,and they are still treating people like animals,men women and children,and it is very very wrong and something should be done about it,whatever happened to innocent till proven guilty,or is it the other way round here ????????????????????????????????????????

Dee x

[Munish]

If by "interest" you mean of interest by the US media, probably because the US media insult the intelligence of the US population by assuming it would not be of interest when it would. BTW I am not contradicting my opinion on this, I am just saying it is of interest, since this story was in actual fact from a "media" source when you look at the original post.

If by "interest" you mean interest of the authorities or courts to permit a suit for wrongful arrest I think InnVic already clarified the situation and because the media have not taken it up to at least bring this to the attention of the public so Government officials can get away with treating foreigners how they like. It seems much of the media are too scared to report on anything they may look like they are controversially questioning US security because of the consequences showing to me many lack common sense.

[DEE F]

If by "interest" you mean of interest by the US media, probably because the US media insult the intelligence of the US population by assuming it would not be of interest when it would. BTW I am not contradicting my opinion on this, I am just saying it is of interest, since this story was in actual fact from a "media" source when you look at the original post.

If by "interest" you mean interest of the authorities or courts to permit a suit for wrongful arrest I think InnVic already clarified the situation and because the media have not taken it up to at least bring this to the attention of the public so Government officials can get away with treating foreigners how they like. It seems much of the media are too scared to report on anything they may look like they are controversially questioning US security because of the consequences showing to me many lack common sense.Munish,kudos to you,you put things so much better than I do:tu: A story like this one is most certainly of interest,wonder how the Americans would have reacted,if a FEMALE USC had been held in leg-irons and chains in an English airport,bet it would have been all over the news channels then !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dee xxx

[Ray10]

two 3 year oldcases are hardly a representation of a trend, and with how many millions of entries since then ...
Their job is too keep people out...

At far as the UK goes I have only seen two people in ankle shackles and that was a long time ago... but do not believe for one moment its all sweetness and light their either ...

[Sharon]

it wouldn't fly as wrongful arrest as the arresting officer had reasonable belief that a crime had been committed. A bad check was passed and was passed off as coming from your husband. If everyone that was arrested and subsequently found to be innocent was able to sue ther police would stop arresting anyone suspicious. It is unfortunate that innocent people can occassionally be subject to this, and I'm not saying its fair, but as long as the circumstances justify an arrest and procedure if followed then it is perfectly legal.

Hi

I understand what your saying but I am sure I read that Carol's husband was arrested on two different dates for the same mistake or have I got it wrong

[Sharon]

Becase Ray,nothing has changed,and they are still treating people like animals,men women and children,and it is very very wrong and something should be done about it,whatever happened to innocent till proven guilty,or is it the other way round here ????????????????????????????????????????

Dee x

Spot on Dee :confused:

[DEE F]

two 3 year oldcases are hardly a representation of a trend, and with how many millions of entries since then ...
Their job is too keep people out...

At far as the UK goes I have only seen two people in ankle shackles and that was a long time ago... but do not believe for one moment its all sweetness and light their either ... Hi Ray,we are hardly talking about 2 cases here,if their job is to keep people out then that is all well and good,however to treat poeple like animals is wrong, the way they talk to people alone and the sheer intimidation they use,is nothing short of barbaric,it is all so easy to intimidate a woman especially when there are 4 or 5 of them but it still doesnt make it right,civility costs nowt,they do underhanded things like getting peole to sign forms saying they will get food and drink whilst being questioned,then refuse to give it to them,children included,but hey they have covered there a***S at this stage ,the poor unfortunate has already signed!!!! And if this was isolated incidents that happened over 3 years ago,then why now all of a sudden set up a complaints dept!!!!!!also for the record it was only 18 months ago that my daughter and grandson were treated like a couple of high profile criminals,I personally reckon it goes on all the time but we just dont hear about it,and whether or not the British immigration is all sweetness and light,they still would not treat a child like that,yes they have a job to do we all appreciate that,but stop trying to rule by fear,not everyone who cames here wants to stay permanently ,nor do they want to attack them,they need to get with the programme,and treat their visitors with respect,after all we are thier guests,and you wouldnt treat your guests like that.......................would you?????


Dee xxx

[InnVic]

I certainly don't agree with the way people are treated by the POE oficers but I can see why they are the way they are. for example - we no longer accept checks from guests. We had one bounce and were unable to recover funds (in fact it cost us more as the bank charged aprocessing fee!) So now to protect ourselves we only take credit cards or cash. 99% of our clients who could pay by check would cause us no problems but because we had one a**hole who screwed us out of $500 we will not risk it any more. The point of my analogy is that POE will have heard every excuse in the book - lets face it people will lie to get in the US. On the odd occassion they encounter someone who is genuine and doesn't lie, how can they know? Anyone of the people they detain could be illegal or a terrorist, drugs runner, master criminal etc.. Because of the abuse of the system we are all tarred with the same brush. Although they could perhaps show more compassion and be more sympathetic I guess like most people in jobs at "the sharp end" they become cynical and suspicious. The world is not a fair place any more and we all know that the USA is more paranoid than any other nation so its pretty mush expected that these cases are going to happen.