Immigration Reform down the tubes

[chris]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6250756.stm

GW's plan on immigration reform was finally dashed today by the US Senate. It failed to get the necessary votes. Any reform will not now be looked at until after the election of the next President, whoever he/she might be.
Bush has now said he plans to move on to fixing the US Budget (a real Mr Fixit our GW).
Whilst it means treading water for the likes of all us on improvements to our lot, for the estimated 12,000,000 illegals it means nothing will happen for them, one way or t'other.
What I want to know is what does the US intend to do about the 12,000,000 illegals already here? It is a sizeable problem that will not go away, the numbers will only swell, not just in more fence crossers, but in family births this side of the fence (anchor babies).
Are we to see a tightening up by the USCIS with round ups and deportations, or are they, like the Senate, going to stick their heads in the ground and ignore dealing with this issue.
I think that if immigration reform viz what to do with the illegals becomes an election issue, then fireworks will really fly. You will have one lot who want to round em up and kick em out and another lot that won't want to disenfranchise themselves from the hispanic vote potential.
Hmm... nice one. :fit: :fit: :fit: :fit:

[kirtida8]

I am relieved that the bill floundered, because it now opens up the possibility of legal immigration reform being separated from the quagmire and hopefully we can get some momentum going so that after the election - we can get some form of legislation put forward. But you make a very valid point Chris - they need to shut the door to the border before they can even hope to try and solve the illegal problem - although they should really be doing this in conjunction with raids on employers who they suspect of hiring illegals..

[chris]

I agree Kay on the boredr tightening and the raids on the employers, but I can't see much progress being made on either.
As a BBC reporter pointed out in a recent immigration article. If they erect a 10' high fence across the border, the fence crossers will simply get themselves a 12' ladder.
The whole issue of how you deal with the 12,000,000 is a hot potato to say the least, simply becasue they have allowed the problem to grow. They couldn't embark on a mass round up & deportation as they did in the 1960's. The minority activist groups are now too well organised and the hispanic numbers were nowhere near what they are now. For the latter, legal and illegal stick together and they are seen as too important a vote by the politicians here to **** off. As they sayin Yorkshire... when in doubt, do nowt!

[DEE F]

I think its going to take one hell of a person to sort this mess out,someone who can think for themselves,unfortunately old George is definately not the one.

Dee xxx

[chris]

I agree Kay on the border tightening and the raids on the employers, but I can't see much progress being made on either.
As a BBC reporter pointed out in a recent immigration article. If they erect a 10' high fence across the Mexico border, the fence crossers will simply get themselves a bigger 12' ladder.
The whole issue of how you deal with the 12,000,000 already here is a hot potato to say the least, simply because they have allowed the problem to fester and grow. They couldn't embark on a mass round up & deportation as they did in the 1960's. The minority activist groups are now too well organised and the hispanic numbers were nowhere near then what they are now. For the latter, legal and illegals seemingly stick together and they are seen as too important a vote by the US politicians here to **** off. As they say in Yorkshire... when in doubt, do nowt!

[Munish]

Wander what the media and public reaction will be now? This whole immigration issue should have been dealt with piecemeal. Virtually the whole bill had support except the illegals bit and to some degree family reunification.

Now there is no access to foreign employees so some companies may shift operations abroad, nonimmigrants have to leave the country instead of being able to renew within which would be bad enough but there is no guarantee for renewal, families will be subject to reunification problems with the current delays only set to increase, and to top it all off, from Sunday I can't smoke when I'm ****ed!

I bet the illegals are happy though. This result saves them a fortune.

[kirtida8]

It is a huge mess and it is going to take someone with a lot more gumption that dear GW to actually try and tackle it - but it must start with border security and not any form of amnesty, because thats what it is at the end of the day no matter how they try and dress it up. Maybe if the rest of the American voters actually got on board with this - it would happen. As it stands there is too much voter apathy to get the elected officials to deliver on their campaign promises. It is because the illegals have very vocal advocates that they get all their demands met. We need to seize the opportunity to get our voices heard and maybe even get some advocates of our own - Kriz1 I suggest you start bombarding Johnny ;) - so that we can play on a level field with the illegals and try to beat them at their own game! I am not saying it is going to be easy or happen overnight - but we cannot just give up and go home - we've all worked too hard to get here to do that.

[peter gold]

In my humble view there is a hidden aganda here
No one wants to loose 12 million votes No one wants them legalized, so do NOWT.
They appear to care but quite the opposite they want nothing to upset the status quo.
When Bush met the Mexican President some sort of a deal was struck up. Let them stay and send $$$$$ home to famlies in Mexico benefitting both economies.
The powerful naive white US voter wants to make America autonomous with closed borders so no one can attack them.
Now Tony B has gone isolationism will be forced upon the US whether they want it or not

[chris]

Kay,
If you look at what culture the vast majority of illegals hail from is, it is the hispanic culture, whether they are from Mexico, Columbia, Venezuala, etc. This culture and Spanish language is what binds them all together. The Hispanic activists seek greater power and influence within the USA and are using this as a golden opportunity for the hispanics to flex their muscles and effectively say to the politicians, "we as legals have votes and we will use them for or against you unless you dance to our tune". By achieving the success on reform, they help ensure the future strength of the hispanic vote/clout and as some would remark guarantee the eventual re-population of parts fo the southern states by this cultural group. This latter aim has been stated as an aim by some of these activist groups.
Yet the powers that be seem paralysed into reacting or doing anything. The mind boggles!

[tracifrost]

i think also they are just sitting on this one, in regards to the 12 million+ illegals. because there is no way on earth that they can make 12 million illegals legal. because what you will get is 100 million+ LEGALS suing the government.
so therefore when you dont know what to do, you do nothing, so they are

[kirtida8]

Chris and Peter, I agree with both your points of view - but what the Hispanics lack and we have is economic clout - and its about time we were vocal about it! OK so they will get the extra votes - I dont for a minute believe it will be anywhere near 12m as most still wont take up the amnesty because of the fines etc - but what good are those votes if all the investors take their money elsewhere? Just think of the economic impact that kind of exodus could have!!

[Munish]

My view is this whole things is a political gamble. The Republicans did everything to stop it because they know the consequences of legalizing millions of illegals would be disasterous for them. This way this get a lot of support for the next elections. Equally the Democrats were not entirely enthusiastic either so they're hoping to be in a better position for the next election. Both arrogantly think they represent the majority view.

However, with what happened I don't think either party has come out on top and if anything both came out looking bad, serving only to increase vote apathy I reckon. What you can be sure of is that regardless of borders and security, there will be an amnesty. Instead of being for 12 million it will now be for 20 million as more illegals will now be encuraged by this. Word will get out that they should come over so that they are here for the revised cut off date in the bill.

Let's assume a bill comes out in 2009, the date on which you should be illegally in the USA for eligibility of a Z visa (or equivalent amensty provision) will likely be January 1, 2009.

Put up a a fence, but then what will happen is they will enter from Canada and the coasts as well as their 12 foot ladders. Don't even be surprised if they carry guns for "self-protection" should they need to use while making illegal entry.

[britcan]

My view is this whole things is a political gamble. The Republicans did everything to stop it because they know the consequences of legalizing millions of illegals would be disasterous for them. This way this get a lot of support for the next elections. Equally the Democrats were not entirely enthusiastic either so they're hoping to be in a better position for the next election. Both arrogantly think they represent the majority view.

However, with what happened I don't think either party has come out on top and if anything both came out looking bad, serving only to increase vote apathy I reckon. What you can be sure of is that regardless of borders and security, there will be an amnesty. Instead of being for 12 million it will now be for 20 million as more illegals will now be encuraged by this. Word will get out that they should come
over so that they are here for the revised cut off date in the bill.

Let's assume a bill comes out in 2009, the date on which you should be illegally in the USA for eligibility of a Z visa (or equivalent amensty provision) will likely be January 1, 2009.

Put up a a fence, but then what will happen is they will enter from Canada and the coasts as well as their 12 foot ladders. Don't even be surprised if they carry guns for "self-protection" should they need to use while making illegal entry.

The ones who cross over illegally from Canada are more likely to be terrorists!! Quebec has its own imigration rules and let in all sorts of folk...mostly from of course the French speaking areas, where of course we know that there are groups of radicals....

Good thing about Canada is that guns are'nt as rife as they are down here...however, you can get them on the black market as with anywhere.

On a lighter note... we had GW here in Rhode Island today...normally the traffic is bad heading over to the beaches and to Newport but today... it was empty...guess he's not that popular!!!

The other thing to keep an eye on is the "North American Highway"- just google it and you will be horrified to read the intentions of the governments of USA, Canada and Mexico.. without involving the voters..

[Sab]

I think the problem seems too huge to the political set so they will bury thier heads in the sand. They need to break the problem into managable chunks and deal with the issues seperately. What they do with the illegals is seperate from policing the border so why not 2 seperate bills.


I know this sounds harsh but if the fence was electrified it would deter some but not all.

[anniefromessex]

It's strange that once they've got ya, they've got ya as in our families case, don't know which way to turn next just to pack up their goods and get the hell out of Dodge, but with the illegals - even when they know who they are, nothing seems to get done about them. I saw a programme once whereby 1 guy was policing an area where they come across, they got to know what time he was in a certain area, he couldn't be in all places at once, he turned a guy round 3 times, but he knew he would probably get across the next time his back was turned. We certainly don't have that luxury!!!

Love Anniexxx

[Susie]

So many good comments and points here, thanks

I tend to agree that this bill being thrown out gives us legals more clout to voice our opinions and get heard, so please lets keep the momentum going. It is time to sort out our issues and mess and secure the boarder before passing any sort of amnesty or guest worker program

I will be speaking with various media contacts more so in the coming weeks

[Bayfield]

In my humble view there is a hidden aganda here
No one wants to loose 12 million votes No one wants them legalized, so do NOWT.
They appear to care but quite the opposite they want nothing to upset the status quo.
When Bush met the Mexican President some sort of a deal was struck up. Let them stay and send $$$$$ home to famlies in Mexico benefitting both economies.
The powerful naive white US voter wants to make America autonomous with closed borders so no one can attack them.
Now Tony B has gone isolationism will be forced upon the US whether they want it or not

Nobody sems to know the numbers, 12m has been circulating for many years, I did read that it is increasing at 3,000 or so a day. Say a million a year.

There would be many millions who would not have been eligible under the CIR bill, and it seems unlikely that any serious enforcement measures would be put into place. They could do that now, no new legislation needed.

And of course there would no doubt be millions who would not like the costs involved in legalsing. Fees, Taxes etc.

So not sure what would have been achieved, all I can see is that proposed bill would have made matters worse.

Gordon Brown has lready announced the pull out from Iraq. It sems likely that there will be at least one terrorist outrage on US soil before another bill comes forward. That could change everything.

Immigration Reform is needed, this was not it.

[Sharon]

like your quote Immigration Reform is needed, this was not it.

That is exactly the point, they are trying to say immigration reforms when it really mean't legalising illegals

[Grumpy]

I agree Kay on the boredr tightening and the raids on the employers, but I can't see much progress being made on either.
As a BBC reporter pointed out in a recent immigration article. If they erect a 10' high fence across the border, the fence crossers will simply get themselves a 12' ladder.
The whole issue of how you deal with the 12,000,000 is a hot potato to say the least, simply becasue they have allowed the problem to grow. They couldn't embark on a mass round up & deportation as they did in the 1960's. The minority activist groups are now too well organised and the hispanic numbers were nowhere near what they are now. For the latter, legal and illegal stick together and they are seen as too important a vote by the politicians here to **** off. As they sayin Yorkshire... when in doubt, do nowt!


Either that or they will dig a tunnel