Where do I start?

[joelene]

I am brand new at this and need some advice.

I am an American citizen (born here... never left). I have committed the horrible offence of being in love with a man I met on the internet. We have been serious for over 2 years now and although we have never met face to face we would like to be married. He is in Australia and is on a pension so he does not work. He rents an apartment and owns a small bit of land. He has family including a 17 y.o. son who lives with him. He has a bank statement showing a rather hefty sum in savings. We applied for a B1/B2 visa for him to come over here planning that, if things went as we hoped, we could marry and then apply for a change of status (recommendation from acquaintance). He was denied due to lack of compelling evidence he will leave America.

Now he cannot use the vwp due to a prior denial. We were going to apply for a finance' visa but cannot because we have not met before.... but we can't meet because they wont let him have a visa to come meet me.

I am dizzy :confused: from the magnitude of information available on immigration issues. I thought of possibly flying over there on the vwp, we could get married there and then apply for a spousal visa. I have a young child and it would be rather inconvenient at this time to travel internationally. Please help me to sort all of this out. All suggestions are welcome.

[Susie]

Hi and a very warm welcome to our site


What a mess and yes if you have been denied a visa you need a visa to overcome the denial.

Did he mention that he wanted to visit his girlfriend in the USA? What reason did he give for the trip? Was he denied because he could not show strong social, emotional and financial ties to his homeland?

Unfortunately every applicant for a visa is deemed to be an immigrant until such times as they prove to the consular officers satisfaction they are not
See section 214 of the immigration and nationality act


As they will not allow him to visit it does seem your only option is for you to visit him then apply for a fiance visa. I am not sure about his child when he/she becomes 18years of age he may be aged out as a dependant of your boyfriend/husband maybe others can clarify

[InnVic]

To contemplate marriage to someone you havent actually met just seems to me to be a very risky proposition. If it truely is love then it will find a way, but perhaps the visa resticion is a blessing in disguise. Perhaps you could arrange to meet on neutral territory (on vacation) before you get trapped in an unforseeable future. Think long and hard - you have a young child to consider.

[joelene]

No. He did not mention he intended to visit his girlfriend during the interview. His reason was that he wanted to go on a vacation to America to meet with some friends he had first met in online chat.

Yes. he was denied because he could not show strong social, emotional and financial ties to his homeland.

[anniefromessex]

Why couldn't he show that? He lives there, presumably owns a home there, plus other ties so ?!!!!

Love Anniexxx

[Susie]

To contemplate marriage to someone you havent actually met just seems to me to be a very risky proposition. If it truely is love then it will find a way, but perhaps the visa resticion is a blessing in disguise. Perhaps you could arrange to meet on neutral territory (on vacation) before you get trapped in an unforseeable future. Think long and hard - you have a young child to consider.


Totally agree, just could not think how to word this,

Please do not rush into anything that may later come back to haunt you, take a couple of holidays and see how your relationship developes after all absense makes the heart go fonder or so people say

[joelene]

To contemplate marriage to someone you havent actually met just seems to me to be a very risky proposition. If it truely is love then it will find a way, but perhaps the visa resticion is a blessing in disguise. Perhaps you could arrange to meet on neutral territory (on vacation) before you get trapped in an unforseeable future. Think long and hard - you have a young child to consider.

Thank you for your concern. Yes I agree with you that it could be risky. I have been thinking of this. That was the purpose in us filing for the visitors visa so that we could have more than a two week vacation period to spend getting to know one another before committing to such a decision. I do not even have a passport yet and could not stay past the beginning of August as school will be starting. Having him come here where I can send my daughter to her friends house, her father's, or grandmother's would allow us time to spend getting acquainted. If I go there I would not be able to leave her with people I do not know, no matter how highly recommended.

[joelene]

Why couldn't he show that? He lives there, presumably owns a home there, plus other ties so ?!!!!

Love Anniexxx

no... he owns a small piece of property with no house on it. he rents an apartment

[anniefromessex]

I would let him in, but that's just me cos I'm a romantic and would let you take the chance, after all Australia seems to have their head on the right way - why don't you go there? I've heard its really nice there, in fact my son is going to emigrate there from the UK in the next couple of years, even though he wanted to be here - but they don't seem to have the burr up their ar.. that this country does. Give it a go - what an adventure for you!!! Sorry just read your previous post - but hey, whats life without a little adventure!!!

Love Anniexxxx

[joelene]

I would let him in, but that's just me cos I'm a romantic and would let you take the chance, after all Australia seems to have their head on the right way - why don't you go there? I've heard its really nice there, in fact my son is going to emigrate there from the UK in the next couple of years, even though he wanted to be here - but they don't seem to have the burr up their ar.. that this country does. Give it a go - what an adventure for you!!! Sorry just read your previous post - but hey, whats life without a little adventure!!!

Love Anniexxxx

Thank you Annie

I cannot move there at this time because my ex would not ever agree to allow her to move out of the country .... plus it just wouldn't be right to keep her from her father and her grandmother who have both been very integral to her life thus far.

[anniefromessex]

Totally understand where you are coming from - in an ideal world!!!!

Whatever happens, I wish you the very best of luck in the future.

Love Anniexxx

[Bobby]

I have no idea why you are still here Joe Lean ?? Go to Australia immediately. Marry this man.

This guy is obviously perfect for you. You live 1000's of miles apart and have never set eyes on each other, so it must be love.

C'Mon! ...........Wake up and smell the coffee.

The percentages of these relationships that actually work are very low. Of course you love him, and he loves you, that's what fantasies are about!

Give yourself a good shake, and consider your child. Stop being so fanciful, chasing a guy who says he owns some land in a country that is full of barren land.

Guaranteed, this will all end in tears.

Bobby

PS. Have you ever been outside of the US ?? (rhetorical)

....and you ladies aren't helping either, with your sympathetic posts. Please post about how realistic her chances are !
1 in 3 marriages end in divorce ....and that's in marriages where the people have actually met.

How you can consider marrying someone that you haven't been in the same room as, I have no comprehension.

Enlighten me !!

[Munish]

I agree with Bobby 100%. But if you this is what you want to do, this is the solution. Enter into an agreement (or amend you existing agreement) with your ex to look after your child for a six month period fulltime (or have you Grandparents look after your child on your behalf). Move to Aus for six months. If in the time it you realise it was meant to be, get married and he can follow once his marriage visa is processed.

You will have to miss your child. His son will be able to come with his Dad as a dependent because he is only 17 and will age out at 21.

I have to be honest, I am skeptical as Bobby is regarding whether this will work. You've never met him, and presumably what you know is only from online chats and phone calls. How do you know he is not a scam artist as these are becoming increasingly prevalent on the Internet (rhetorical question, just to point out I hope you have done your own investigations to a sufficient level)?

Do you really love him or do you just love the companionship (again rhetorical question which I am sure you have already considered in you head)?

Don't mean to be negative, just having your long term (as opposed to short term) happiness in mind. If with all that you still want to pursue this, temporarily going to Australia might be you most immiediate option so you can get to know each other better.

Alternatively, your guy friend could come to the USA and study for a year on an F1. In F1 applications the embassies pay less attention to home ties (although it is still relevant under law). Your son can come with him as a derivative and they can both change status if you marry.

PS - I am not surprised he got rejected for a B visa - he said I am going to visit friends I met in a chat room. Helloooooooooooooooo? Also your lawyer gave you/your friend terrible advice. A B visa is a temporary visa and he was using with changing status in mind which he should know is visa fraud. Your first step should be to get a new lawyer. If you paid for that advice sue him/her for your money back.

[peter gold]

Bobby I agree tell it as it

[DEE F]

Sounds like a marraige made in heaven to me,dont see them dont talk, live 12000 miles apart ,bloody hell what more could a woman want lol

On a more serious note Joelene gotta agree with the guys,mainly because of your young child,definately nOt something to be taken lightly,I would personally leave my child with dad or gRandma for a while,go out there and get to know this guy on face to face basis,and then take it from there,you never know who you are talking to over the internet and it couLd all end in tears,on the other hand he could turn out to be the man of your dreams,and well worth the wait,whatever you decide good luck.

Dee xx

[InnVic]

Bobby - not all the ladies agree that this is a good idea - my post advised caution. Perhaps we should introduce her to Munish!

[Kriz1]

I have to agree with the boys here...I've had an internet toy boy for years .:p ...love him to bits..would I of married him if I were not married already ...hell no.. not without living around him in real life for more than a few months...it took me 4 years to find out enough about him to know I would have to kill him and carry him around in the trunk of my car after just a few months together..:rofl: .. .best friend in the world....but I still don't know enough about him after 7 years of online friendship...to have taken it to marriage had I been free to do so...think hard on this one...I know of a few online romances that have worked well...but I know even more that have ended badly...

[DEE F]

I have to agree with the boys here...I've had an internet toy boy for years .:p ...love him to bits..would I of married him if I were not married already ...hell no.. not without living around him in real life for more than a few months...it took me 4 years to find out enough about him to know I would have to kill him and carry him around in the trunk of my car after just a few months together..:rofl: .. .best friend in the world....but I still don't know enough about him after 7 years of online friendship...to have taken it to marriage had I been free to do so...think hard on this one...I know of a few online romances that have worked well...but I know even more that have ended badly...They always say you have to live with someone to know what they are really like,never a truer word spoken;)

Dee xxxxx

[joelene]

I have no idea why you are still here Joe Lean ?? Go to Australia immediately. Marry this man.

This guy is obviously perfect for you. You live 1000's of miles apart and have never set eyes on each other, so it must be love.

C'Mon! ...........Wake up and smell the coffee.

The percentages of these relationships that actually work are very low. Of course you love him, and he loves you, that's what fantasies are about!

Give yourself a good shake, and consider your child. Stop being so fanciful, chasing a guy who says he owns some land in a country that is full of barren land.

Guaranteed, this will all end in tears.

Bobby

PS. Have you ever been outside of the US ?? (rhetorical)

....and you ladies aren't helping either, with your sympathetic posts. Please post about how realistic her chances are !
1 in 3 marriages end in divorce ....and that's in marriages where the people have actually met.

How you can consider marrying someone that you haven't been in the same room as, I have no comprehension.

Enlighten me !!

I would be glad to enlighten you Bobby, however I do not believe you are in a mood to be willing to see this particular light. You seem to prefere spending all of your energy and time on being as mean and cruel as possible. (Joe Lean ???) Please lighten up just a bit.

I am not being whimsical about this. I said we would like to be married. Of course we want to meet in person first. We would like to be granted permission to meet and explore the opportunity. There is no reason we should not at least be granted that opportunity. We enjoy one another and share a very compatable set of ideologies. We also have many varied intrests for example. He is a veggetarian and I am not.
We are not teenagers who have fallen in love and who simply must be together or die. (personally I do not believe love is a hole that one can FALL into)

I have never made any comments about how much in love we are and honestly i did not ask for anyone's hypothesis as to this marriages' possiblity of sucess or failure. I did ask for suggestions and ideas on how to get us in the same physical "room" as you say. In an effort to make my comments more understandable and less ambiguous I mean I am on this particular forum looking for ideas on how we can legally bring an Austrailian from Australia to live in America. I did not come here looking for insults and personal oppinions. I have my own. Others of you have expressed concerns of similar nature but have been able to remain respectful, I am not addressing you. I thank you all, even you Bobby for your concern, yet I am not here looking for permission and will not be insulted without response.

I must wonder what makes you so cynical and so quick to jump to the conclusion that we must "Wake up and smell the coffee" and that this will end up in tears .... Guaranteed even. Why is it any more credible for you to condem us to failure when you have never so much as spoken with either of us, let alone been in the same room with us? I suppose it is true that each of us use the same set of rules to our own advantage.

That said I would ask you to read what I had actually typed before throwing something out of context. The property he owns was not mentioned because it impressed me. The property ownership was mentioned in reference to being something that would help establish his ties to Australia for the B1/B2 Visa. Same with the mention of the money... it was for the benefit of establishing that he could afford to support himself while abroad, not to make him sound good enough for me to marry.

Now if you would truely like for me to enlighten you on the possibliltiy of actually meeting and developing a relationship online I would be happy to but I honestly dont think that is what you want, so I will spare the rest of the group. I would ask though... If 1 in 3 people who marry after meeting in person, as opposed to online, divorce .... could it not be that the method of meeting is rather irrellevent?

[joelene]

People People, calm down here. I am an adult. Peter is also an adult. We are aware of the risks to both of us. We have discussed them. I work for a private investigator who is retired from the CIA. Trust me my boss has had him checked out from day 1. He can't find one shredd of incriminating evidence showing why Peter should not be president of the United States let alone my husband. Before you all start saying that I should ask my boss for ideas let me answer that. My boss is totally against the idea, and refuses to play any part in it. He has gone so far as to forbid me from using any office contacts in pursuing this. He says that if we do this and it does not work out he does not want me to be able to look back and say that it is in any way his fault.
We have done a comprehensive background check, as well as a known criminal and criminal association check. We have even matched fingerprints. Of course if he were determined to scam me he could avoid all detection practices and could even be Osama bin-ladden himself. If that were the case I would be beyond trouble. I will not live in fear of every possability. I have checked him out as best I can. I am now looking for a way to bring him here so we can check each other out. Why is that so hard to understand and why does this all need to be an issue?

[joelene]

btw ... YES, I have been outside the US, and I am not about to move to Australia for 6 months and leave my child here. It has nothing to do with missing her. She is my child and it is my responsability to raise her. Plus I like her and I would miss her (i do have a sense of humor)

[Bobby]

Jolene, Jolene, Jolene, joleeeeeene, please don't take him just because you caaaaaannnn!

OK, enough of the singing. Dolly Parton would turn in her grave. Dammit the B**ch is still alive. ...still the best double act in the business!! ;)

Anyway, Jolene,
Since you mentioned me so kindly as many times as you could in your response, I feel that I should at least give you the courtesy of a reply.

I think you're off your rocker!

I can't even take what you are proposing seriously enough to give you positive advice on how to move forward with the immigration issues you have.

I will however share a story with you about a guy I met at the Embassy in London 9 years ago, which may help you understand the Embassy's slant on online marriages and the prospects of gaining legal status through this process.

He was married to a US citizen. They met online, and she flew over to the UK to meet him and they married. She stayed for a month and returned leaving him to apply for his visa to join her. They wanted to do things by the book.
He fought back and forth with the Embassy for the following 12 months after his visa was denied, and it didn't look as if he was getting anywhere.

When I met him, he was in a bit of a state. This was, in his eyes, "last chance saloon". She'd recently told him that she was dying of cancer, and that all she wanted was for him to be there to nurse her through until she passed and to be there to look after her kids when she'd gone.
We sat for the 2 or 3 hours waiting for our interviews and obviously I learned a lot about their internet romance, and how bizarre the few years were before they even set eyes on each other.
He was sincere about his actions, and although I empathised briefly with his situation, it all just seemed a bit "off the wall" for me. He had proof with him that she was dying and didn't have long left. It was all quite sad really.

Anyway, to cut a long story short:

He got denied.
She died.
He cried.

Bobby

[joelene]

Thank you for that inspiring? story Bobby. I do not plan to die or to cry or to cause anyone to cry or to dye. I think I will continue to look for a way to get to meet him. It might be crazy ... but when I watch the news it seems most of the world is off it's rocker. I am simply me. Not trying to be crazy.

[DEE F]

Jolene, Jolene, Jolene, joleeeeeene, please don't take him just because you caaaaaannnn!

OK, enough of the singing. Dolly Parton would turn in her grave. Dammit the B**ch is still alive. ...still the best double act in the business!! ;)

Anyway, Jolene,
Since you mentioned me so kindly as many times as you could in your response, I feel that I should at least give you the courtesy of a reply.

I think you're off your rocker!

I can't even take what you are proposing seriously enough to give you positive advice on how to move forward with the immigration issues you have.

I will however share a story with you about a guy I met at the Embassy in London 9 years ago, which may help you understand the Embassy's slant on online marriages and the prospects of gaining legal status through this process.

He was married to a US citizen. They met online, and she flew over to the UK to meet him and they married. She stayed for a month and returned leaving him to apply for his visa to join her. They wanted to do things by the book.
He fought back and forth with the Embassy for the following 12 months after his visa was denied, and it didn't look as if he was getting anywhere.

When I met him, he was in a bit of a state. This was, in his eyes, "last chance saloon". She'd recently told him that she was dying of cancer, and that all she wanted was for him to be there to nurse her through until she passed and to be there to look after her kids when she'd gone.
We sat for the 2 or 3 hours waiting for our interviews and obviously I learned a lot about their internet romance, and how bizarre the few years were before they even set eyes on each other.
He was sincere about his actions, and although I empathised briefly with his situation, it all just seemed a bit "off the wall" for me. He had proof with him that she was dying and didn't have long left. It was all quite sad really.

Anyway, to cut a long story short:

He got denied.
She died.
He cried.

BobbyOh Bobby Bobby Bobby you really are going straight to hell:D :D

Joelene I have read all your posts with interest and still say that perhaps it would be easier to go to Australia on your own for say 2-3 weeks not 6 months .because that is an impossibly long time to be without your daughter,whike you are there get married in a civil ceremony ,then surely, as your husband he will be entitled to come back to America with you,or am I wrong here??????????Why dont you have a word with our local congressman,maybe he can come up with a solution for you,anyway once again,best of luck.

Dee xxx

[peter gold]

......."I thought of possibly flying over there on the vwp, we could get married there and then apply for a spousal visa. "

You have answered yourself. Do it

[joelene]

Thank you Dee,

Yes I think that seems to be the only solution. I was hoping to find if there were a way to bring him here so we could spend some time face to face ... you know ... where you have to smell each other's farts, and where you can't just let go of the mic to yell at the kids or the neighbors. Where you can talk while doing other things and not have to hold a phone or a keyboard in your hand. and, quite frankly I would like to know how he kisses before I committ myself to his bed for the rest of my life. These are all things that you just can't experience in a two week vacation.

His son can take care of himself and is not planning to come with him. Peter has no other obligations right now and would be free to spend 6 months here while we get to know one another. Me flying back and forth several times can get rather expensive. It would seem that this simply is not possible. So now I am left with the choice of making a rash decision, without enough information.

I believe we will try once more for the B1 Visa. He did not understand all that he should have taken with him to the interview, so he did not take along proof of memberships in civic organizations, political organizations, church, and local clubs. He did not mention his brothers and sisters who live in Australia. Of course he plans to return, to set everything in order before actually moving to America. We simply wanted time to be together and to make sure this is what we want to do. If we cannot do that then I will go there.

[Bayfield]

Now he cannot use the vwp due to a prior denial.

He can.

He will need to declare the refusal on the I-94W and may be subject to extra questions.

[Kriz1]

I never even give a thought to this being a scam...just how hard it is to get to know someone well online...his little ways...day to day things that could drive you nuts...
Not saying that can't happen if you date a guy in the same town...its just making sure you are sure about what you are doing...

[Kriz1]

Thank you for that inspiring? story Bobby. I do not plan to die or to cry or to cause anyone to cry or to dye. I think I will continue to look for a way to get to meet him. It might be crazy ... but when I watch the news it seems most of the world is off it's rocker. I am simply me. Not trying to be crazy.

You could get him to join here...we could get to like him....he could be helpful with people wanting to move to OZ...more people will read your story and could come up with something useful...

Just an idea...:)

I feel like mum vetting a date...LOL!..:rofl: :rofl:

[Bobby]

Don't be daft Kriz! ...he's already "dating" one Expats member. You don't think he wants to get "into bed" (so to speak) with the rest of the women on here do ya????

I tell ya Jolene, ....if I was your internet date and you told me that you actually farted, and there was a chance that you may in fact do that in person, in front of me ??????




....... game over!

Bobby

[joelene]

You could get him to join here...we could get to like him....he could be helpful with people wanting to move to OZ...more people will read your story and could come up with something useful...

Just an idea...:)

I feel like mum vetting a date...LOL!..:rofl: :rofl:

:hug: THANKS MOM :rofl:

He has joined .... last night .... same time as I did. I just type faster than he does and we were in private messenger together while I posted at first. He was on site and reading everything with me. We do spend hours at a time together and we both are looking at the same sites at the same time. It really is not difficult to do.

With the time difference (14 hours) he was in bed while I was posting most of the day today. It would be novel to be in the same time zone.

[joelene]

Don't be daft Kriz! ...he's already "dating" one Expats member. You don't think he wants to get "into bed" (so to speak) with the rest of the women on here do ya????

I tell ya Jolene, ....if I was your internet date and you told me that you actually farted, and there was a chance that you may in fact do that in person, in front of me ??????




....... game over!

Bobby


Not much fear of that happening now is there Bobby?
I am sure you never do such horrible things... you just keep them all inside. You must be impressive. For us meere mortals we must release the pressure or risk explosion.

[joelene]

He can.

He will need to declare the refusal on the I-94W and may be subject to extra questions.

But everything I have read says that you cannot use the vwp once you have been denied and the person he interviewed with told him not to try it. They digitally fingerprinted him at the interview and said that when he lands he will be fingerprinted again and they will make him go back to Australia immediately and he would risk being banned from ever coming back.

Please tell me what the I-94W is. I have not heard of this.

[Kriz1]

:hug: THANKS MOM :rofl:

He has joined .... last night .... same time as I did. I just type faster than he does and we were in private messenger together while I posted at first. He was on site and reading everything with me. We do spend hours at a time together and we both are looking at the same sites at the same time. It really is not difficult to do.

With the time difference (14 hours) he was in bed while I was posting most of the day today. It would be novel to be in the same time zone.

My best mate lives in OZ..so I know all to well about the time difference...

[Bayfield]

But everything I have read says that you cannot use the vwp once you have been denied and the person he interviewed with told him not to try it. They digitally fingerprinted him at the interview and said that when he lands he will be fingerprinted again and they will make him go back to Australia immediately and he would risk being banned from ever coming back.

Please tell me what the I-94W is. I have not heard of this.


Look on the Consulate web site about VWP use, certainly says that on the London Consulate site.

I was refused a B and travelled on the VWP.

I-94 is the form you fill in on the plane, W is for VWP.

[Susie]

Bobby - not all the ladies agree that this is a good idea - my post advised caution. Perhaps we should introduce her to Munish!

Hey Innvic

Better not, Dee will have your guts for garters, :)

[peter]

Hello everyone .... this is Peter .... Joelene's other half .
Thanks for your concern but trust me we are in love and determined to be together.
Bobby you are lucky she acknowledged you at all ... you didn't deserve it.
You have all given some very good ideas and I will consider most of them, please don't stop.
We are here looking for help to get together, not to justify ourselves.

[peter]

wow thiss "Fit"smiley:fit: is soooo funny , i wish it was available in yahoo and the:hug: is so cute.

[DEE F]

Hi Peter and a warm:welcome: from me,sure both you and Joelene can hole your own on here,good luck to you both in your quest;)


My ex husband went to Australia,ran off withmy best frend............................................. ........dont half miss her:D :D ::D :D :D


Love Dee xxxxxxxx;)

[kirtida8]

Welcome to the site Joelene and Peter :welcome: I am sure that as we get to know you both through your posts, we will be able to come up with some solution that may help your situation. We do tend to be cautious in our advice - and it is only advice - until we get to know you better, as we know so many who have been hurt or scammed. As they say "true love conquers all" and if you really do want to be together, you will find a way.
By the way Peter - you do know that there are lots more icons?I quite like these:smack: :sprint: :drunk: :rofl:

[DEE F]

Hey Innvic

Better not, Dee will have your guts for garters, :)Hey Mun we are not doing a very good job of keepng this a secret are we :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


Love Dee xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Kriz1]

Hello everyone .... this is Peter .... Joelene's other half .
Thanks for your concern but trust me we are in love and determined to be together.
Bobby you are lucky she acknowledged you at all ... you didn't deserve it.
You have all given some very good ideas and I will consider most of them, please don't stop.
We are here looking for help to get together, not to justify ourselves.

Hi and :welcome: ....

[Kriz1]

Hi Peter and a warm:welcome: from me,sure both you and Joelene can hole your own on here,good luck to you both in your quest;)


My ex husband went to Australia,ran off withmy best frend............................................. ........dont half miss her:D :D ::D :D :D


Love Dee xxxxxxxx;)


Dee you are a one......:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Bobby]

Welcome to the site Peter.

Nobody is asking you to justify yourselves.

Your burd posted a question on an open forum asking for advice. ALL of your story is completely relevant and must be considered when giving advice.

My advice to you both is geared toward what I have experienced in my lifetime.
Of course you don't like any negativity cast over your plight to be together, but why should I butter it up. I don't know you personally, so what I have written shouldn't be TAKEN personally. It's a general opinion on what I think your chances are at being together in the US.
I've already posted a story about a "married" couple that couldn't be together because the Embassy didn't like the fact that they were "online lovers" (bit like Mr Stanhope and I).

As I said before .....of course you guys are in love and you could be happy together. That's what fantasies are like. Ideological existences.

The reality is that you have many hurdles to cross before you would be able to live together, wherever THAT is.

It's pretty clear that you both spend an awful lot of time online, and in chat rooms. Obviously before you "met" each other too.

I just find it all a little sad.

It's not for anyone to stand as judge and jury on your life and what you do in it, but when you ask in open forum what we think, it has to be accepted that you are asking for everyone's opinion and not just for people who will agree with you. Forums aren't a mutual back slapping area.
Not everyone is going to be so kind and think ...."awwwww, how romantic"

Bobby
_________________________________________________
Just telling it like it is! .....as usual.

[Bobby]

All suggestions are welcome.

:)

[Ray10]

Bayfield got it right .... he can use the Visa Waiver

[Bobby]

Bayfield got it right .... he can use the Visa Waiver

I think what was said before about not being ABLE to use the VWP, was more like "didn't think it would fly".

After a long arduous flight there's nothing worse than being taken aside for extra questioning only be turned around and sent straight back from whence you came, ...and I think that's what the worry is.

Given the circumstances I'd be inclined to think that it's a 50/50 shot.

As soon as you declare the visa denial, it opens up the questions of "why" you applied for a B visa etc. ...and of course lying to the POE officer just snowballs the mess.

If you tell the whole truth, there's not a cat in hell's chance that he'd be allowed through. They just don't allow people to arrive here to get married and never return. They just don't.

I feel that your best chances, if you choose to live together in the USA, is to marry outside the States, and apply as a married couple. It's going to take some time, but it's a more viable route.

Just my opinion. .......after you get over the fact that she farts of course!!

:D

Bobby
_____________________________________________
Just telling it like it is! .....as usual.

[Ray10]

I
If you tell the whole truth, there's not a cat in hell's chance that he'd be allowed through. They just don't allow people to arrive here to get married and never return. They just don't.


He is hardly likely to say he is coming here to get married to somebody he has never met ... More likely coming to meet a friend for a few weeks ..
But lets be frank here 37% of the application to AOS because of marriage to a US citizen are from people who arrived on the visa waiver ...and "married on the spur of the moment" and is perfectly legal ....

What is not allowed is to arrive on a visa waiver with intent
to marry and AOS ... very difficult to prove and they rarely bother ...

[fllion]

"online lovers" (bit like Mr Stanhope and I).

so you have been cheating on me ,have you :fit: :fit:

No More Dinner & wine for you then

[peter gold]

Fllion please dont mention that name here again

[joelene]

What was said about not being ABLE to use the VMP was a direct result of the warning on the visa application page through VisaPoint, which is currently the ONLY way to apply for a visa appointment.

http://canberra.usembassy.gov/consular/visarefusal.html
which states

"What to do if refused a visa
If your application for a nonimmigrant visa has been refused, you will be informed why. The most common refusals are under Section 221(g) and Section 214(b) of the U.S. Immigration and Nationality Act. Other refusal sections are specific, and such refusals will be accompanied by a detailed note. If you have been refused a visa, do not attempt to travel on the Visa Waiver Program as it is likely you will be refused admission at the port of entry."

I don't particularly like the idea of him being banned. And it wasn't intended to be Visa fraud. We did not consult a lawyer because the process seemed straightforward enough. If after meeting we decided to marry we could apply for a change of status. I dont see why that would be a wrong thing.

Where do you come up with this idea that he should "go for it" even though the counselt clearly warns him not to?

[Bayfield]

Refused a Visa
While travelers who have been refused a visa under the provisions of Section 221(g) or 214(b) of the Immigration and Nationality Act are not ineligible to travel visa under the Visa Waiver Program, they will be questioned by an immigration official at the U. S. port of entry regarding the refusal by the Embassy or Consulate.

The traveler should carry with him or her evidence of his or her intention to depart the United States at the end of the visit. This is generally satisfied by furnishing evidence of strong social and economic ties to the traveler's 's place of permanent residence. There is no set form that this should take as each person's circumstances differ.

If the immigration officer is not satisfied that the traveler meets the qualifications for nonimmigrant status, the traveler will be denied entry.

http://london.usembassy.gov/cons_new/visa/niv/vwp.html

[Sharon]

......."I thought of possibly flying over there on the vwp, we could get married there and then apply for a spousal visa. "

You have answered yourself. Do it


But how long would this take and could the visa be denied cos I thought you cannot change to any other visa if you can on the vwp :confused:

[joelene]

Refused a Visa
While travelers who have been refused a visa under the provisions of Section 221(g) or 214(b) of the Immigration and Nationality Act are not ineligible to travel visa under the Visa Waiver Program, they will be questioned by an immigration official at the U. S. port of entry regarding the refusal by the Embassy or Consulate.

The traveler should carry with him or her evidence of his or her intention to depart the United States at the end of the visit. This is generally satisfied by furnishing evidence of strong social and economic ties to the traveler's 's place of permanent residence. There is no set form that this should take as each person's circumstances differ.

If the immigration officer is not satisfied that the traveler meets the qualifications for nonimmigrant status, the traveler will be denied entry.

http://london.usembassy.gov/cons_new/visa/niv/vwp.html

Perhaps the difference is that he is traveling from Australia and not from London. I don't know. It seems to me that if you were refused a visa for lack of compelling evidence that you were going to return before you left... you would be rather silly to think that the POE officer would say "oh well no problems come on in".

I suppose it is possible that with a return ticket the POE officer MIGHT say ok but that is a mighty large amount of money to spend on an aiplane ticket, not to mention the emotional involvement to take the chance. Plus I have read that if the POE officer turns him back he could well be banned for 10 years or maybe even life. I think there is a more honest and a more legal way to do this. I just need to keep looking until I find it.
Thank you though for offering a suggestion.

[joelene]

But how long would this take and could the visa be denied cos I thought you cannot change to any other visa if you can on the vwp :confused:

The idea is not that we would apply for AOS at all. I would travel to Australia on VWP. We would marry there. I would return to America. Then apply for a spousal visa for him to come to America on. I hear it could take a couple of years this way, or maybe he would not ever be issued a spousal visa. I do not know.

Seems no matter what we do we are taking a big risk of not being approved. Seems kinda silly to have to go through all of this but I guess that if you are not filthy rich, or dirt poor, America dosen't want you.

[Grumpy]

The idea is not that we would apply for AOS at all. I would travel to Australia on VWP. We would marry there. I would return to America. Then apply for a spousal visa for him to come to America on. I hear it could take a couple of years this way, or maybe he would not ever be issued a spousal visa. I do not know.

Seems no matter what we do we are taking a big risk of not being approved. Seems kinda silly to have to go through all of this but I guess that if you are not filthy rich, or dirt poor, America dosen't want you.

That is unless you are an illegal

[Bobby]

The idea is not that we would apply for AOS at all. I would travel to Australia on VWP. We would marry there. I would return to America. Then apply for a spousal visa for him to come to America on. I hear it could take a couple of years this way, or maybe he would not ever be issued a spousal visa. I do not know.

.

You've answered everything you've been asking right there.

Now all you have to do, is .......go and get on with it.

Bobby
_________________________________________________
Just telling it like it is! .....as usual.

[Bayfield]

Perhaps the difference is that he is traveling from Australia and not from London. I don't know. It seems to me that if you were refused a visa for lack of compelling evidence that you were going to return before you left... you would be rather silly to think that the POE officer would say "oh well no problems come on in".

I suppose it is possible that with a return ticket the POE officer MIGHT say ok but that is a mighty large amount of money to spend on an aiplane ticket, not to mention the emotional involvement to take the chance. Plus I have read that if the POE officer turns him back he could well be banned for 10 years or maybe even life. I think there is a more honest and a more legal way to do this. I just need to keep looking until I find it.
Thank you though for offering a suggestion.

I can not imagine that there are different rules for different VWP countries.

My guess is that many people who use the VWP would have problems getting a B Visa.

You must have a return ticket to use the VWP.

If you are sent back, then usually you are allowed to withdraw your application. No ban.

When I was sent to secondary, I told them I had applied for a B by mistake, did not realise it was the exact opposite of what I should have done. Which was true.

I think I have seen mentioned that a USC Visitor can file directly for a spouse at the Austalian Consulate, no need to use K3.

[Bayfield]

That is unless you are an illegal

Undocumented;)

[Ray10]

Again Bayfield is right... .Australia is one of the few consulates that will accept DCF for non-residents ... but these things do change often ..
a check on their site may help ...

for details of this process ..which is the fastest way it can be done


http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?autocom=custom&page=dcf

[OberonSH]

Hi, I met a guy over the internet - we dated for over 3 years (did have bigger plans, but they never materialised). We did actually meet, and I ended up spending half the year living in London with him, and half the year living in Manchester. Great days....

So don;t be too hard on Jolene & Peter - let's face it, a hell of a lot of our lives nowadays is conducted over the interent - stands to reason more and more people are going to meet, and fall in love over it.

I personally would still consider VWP, and have Peter ready to explain his visit in more detail, and to declare the previous denial - from what I gather B visas are pretty hard to get whatever the circumstances. I would take all the relevant details of ties to Oz - lease on apartment, bank statements, ownership deeds for the land, proof of family ties etc, contract from work.

I wish you guys all the luck in the world - and even if you don;t fancy each other when your eyes meet over a crowded luggage retreval system, you obviously have a strong bond that will last a lifetime. Hope it goes well for you guys.

[anniefromessex]

Peter - welcome from me. From what I can gather Australia is a better place to live than here (although nobody ever knows about a place until they live there)!! What if you hated it here as, after all this country is dealing with a lot of problems right now, and the fact that Joelene couldn't leave because of her child - could cause loads of problems for you and lets face it the first few years together (even though bless her heart she farts and isn't scared to admit it - bit like our Dee really who farts and burps - sorry to disenchant you Mun) so then what would you do. I don't envy you, but I am sure if that is what you both really want you will find a way.

Not sure about the B Visa route - it can lead to heartache as we have found out to our cost, but what doesn't work for one could work for another - you never know in this place - heads you win, tails you lose!!!!

Good luck anyway.

Love Anniexxx