E2 visa reform

[Nina]

Hi Everyone,

My congressman, Connie Mack, has agreed to take action if enough people contact him with concerns about E2 restrictions (no path to permanent residence/kids aging out etc.). I intend to absolutely bombard him with emails and have contacted everyone I can think of asking them to write. If you all do the same, we might be able to change the laws that are causing so much distress. I own a hair salon, so I have access to a lot of people who are willing to help.
The email address is ADRIAN.MIRABILIO@MAIL.HOUSE.GOV
If someone needs the address it is; Congressman Connie Mack
115 Cannon Building, Washington DC 20515

Now, start emailing!

Nina

[kirtida8]

Hi Nina,

Thanks will do. Did you inform him about Heather Wilson's own bill that needs a co-sponsor?

[peter gold]

We have to be very careful how this is approached.
An E2 visa is a non immmigrant visa and to change it to an immigrant visa is one major change
Ageing out of kids at 21 is another major issue.
Seek change in both and I think you are asking for too much and will get nothing.
I see no way knowing the history and politics of the E2 they will make it an immigrant visa.
Try to change one is best IMHO

[lorraine]

Hi I cant see why they should have to change it, we didnt take that option as we knew it wasnt right for us... If you take the E2 visa option you know that at 21 your child will age out we knew that we could not deal with this so therefore didnt go for an E2 visa. We also knew it would never lead to perm residence and again this would not work for us..

People take the E2 like Inn Vic for good reason and they are using it as it should be used...

[tracifrost]

To E2 visas, good luck with the ageing out, that is one thing on behalf of E that needs to be changed.
But Lorraine has a very valid point, like her we chose the L1, because we knew the E, wouldnt get us anywhere fast.
I hate to be the person that says, well you did all know this blah, blah blah,
but how can you live in a country, where you are neither here or there, living on a permanent visa, where you, every few years have to be judged on your merits, in order to stay here:confused:
Then worry and hope it will all change for the sake of your children:(
I think if it were me i would of had to look at this and think about immigrating to another country, where i could at least plan for my future and for the sake of my children their future too.

[kirtida8]

This is the reply I got - very quick I must say so things are looking up.:tu: :)

Good Morning Kirtida.



I am forwarding this email to Congressman Mack’s legislative staff in Washington DC . We appreciate your opinion and I will make sure it is heard. Please feel free to send anything directly to me and I will make sure it gets to the correct staff members in DC.



I personally feel that it is very important to voice your opinion on this increasing problem for families just like yourself. I will do all that I can to help you on this subject.



Thank you and have a wonderful day.

-Adrian Mirabilio

[kirtida8]

Peter, Lorraine, and Traci - you have valid points - but remember that not everyone is as fortunate as to be able to apply for an L1/L2 and so take the best option available to them in order to have a chance at the "dream".
Change is always possible - otherwise the suffragettes would never have managed to get women the right to vote.

[Peter Dexter]

There is not one person with an E2 visa that can claim not to have known the downside of the E visa. There is all this complaining about it, but no-one ever mentions that they are relatively easy to obtain, when compared with other visa’s such as an L1 or H1B and that most people on an E visa would not be in the USA without it.

People always want their cake and to eat it, the easy visa and permanent residence.

The visa is very specific about residence and time limits. My sympathy is with the people, but I cannot help thinking that the visa was not for them, and as mentioned above who would want to live in limbo like that?

I understand the issues people have, but I do think that Connie Mack (who is my congressman) would better use his timing to try to correct other issues in the USA such as expensive health care or crime, than pander to folks who knew exactly what they were getting into, or should have done.

Caveat Emptor applies to visa’s applications too!

[Nina]

Wow, Peter, thanks for the support. For many people, E2 is the only way to come here and I firmly believe that, after a certain amount of time, those who came here temporarily, knowing the limitations, should have the opportunity to change to green card status. Doesn't that make a lot of sense - try before you buy? In our case, my husband and I were too old to emigrate to Australia, and anyway, he has a sister in Naples. Nothing is carved in stone -E2 visa spouses can now get social security numbers. What we have to do is become the squeaky wheel. You could help us instead of pointing out more important things for our congressman to do. That would be nice.

[kirtida8]

Peter Dexter, with all due respect - healthcare and social security reforms are even more of a political hot potato than immigration reform. The pharmaceutical and insurance companies have vested interests in making sure that prices remain high and to that end hire a multitude of lobbyists to influence congress and senate alike. If you seriously think that your congressman - or any congressman for that matter, will seriously do anything about it then you are mistaken.
I do not agree with you that the E is the easy visa either. Also why should we not want the same rights that are afforded to those on an L1/L2 or H1b? We invest the same amount of money - sometimes a lot more - and do basically the same in regards to running our businesses. Just because "we knew" that it was a non-immigrant visa, does not mean that if the opportunity arises to affect change we should not try to grab it.

[tracifrost]

Also why should we not want the same rights that are afforded to those on an L1/L2 or H1b? We invest the same amount of money - sometimes a lot more - and do basically the same in regards to running our businesses. Just because "we knew" that it was a non-immigrant visa, does not mean that if the opportunity arises to affect change we should not try to grab it.

Valid points again Kay, however i must disagree with you here, because the guys at Immigration, have said time and time again. 'IF it is your wish to reside in the U.S, permanantly, then PLEASE choose another visa. The E2 visa, is not or will not be used to live here permanantly. We understand that you would like to live here, but in considering this, please choose another visa, that allows for Duel Intent'.
For some this is very hard, in not knowing whether its actually the U.S that they have to immigrate to, or the fact that they are just so desperate to get out of their home country. So for this situation, it must be difficult, if people are just considering the U.S, as opposed to other countries that are more easy on you, with regards to immigration.
It also must be hard, knowing that there is no other country in the world, that you would or could consider other than the U.S. and each and everyday, you wake up thinking, 'Is today, going to be the day?' that they may change things.
so for that reason i have to admire E2 visa holders. I just dont think i would be strong enough to go through that.

[peter gold]

I will not keep repeating myself. An E2 is a NON imiigrant renewable visa. No one will ver change that.
The misery caused when an E2 business owner dies, or a child reaches 21 are possible to avoid by change and I support that.
Do not attempt to make an E2 into an immigrant visa as it just will not happen.

[kirtida8]

The misery caused when an E2 business owner dies, or a child reaches 21 are possible to avoid by change and I support that.

Ok then Peter, why don't you email Adrian and state your support for this. I have no problem with never getting a green card for myself - but why should my kids not have the same rights as those on an L-1/L-2 after all they had no choice but to accompany me here.

[Peter Dexter]

My point is that everyone who applied for an E visa knew it is a non immigrant visa that does not lead to permanency. The pain and misery caused by children getting shipped off when they are 21 is not the fault of the Federal Government, but the parent. It is the parent that made the choice knowing full well this would happen.

When we decided to move to the US we decided only to do it if we could make it permanent. We decided we would not go on an E visa.

I am not against stopping people having the opportunity I had, but they knew all of this when they moved to the USA.

If you could only move to the USA on an E visa, perhaps you should have thought twice about it, especially if you have children.

I also have to disagree about E visa’s not being easy. They are when compared to the requirements placed on other visas. That are why so many people apply for them. There is no requirement for education, field experience or specialist knowledge, pretty much all you have to do is to invest an amount of money in the USA.

[tracifrost]

But at the same time Peter, You HAVE to admire, E2 visa holders, for their courage and determination. That alone, says a lot about this kind of visa.
There is no way i could live in a country where i neither lived here, or lived there.
That alone has to be applauded and given a :tu:

[lorraine]

I agree with Peter here... It is so sad that kids are ageing out but once again the parent brought them here... I would not have brought my child here on E2 when I found out the rules, (although it would have been easier in the beginning to do the E2). if this had been the only option to us , we would not have moved to America..

We have a friend moving over very soon who will be on the E2 visa they also have children , they know all the rules and totally agree with it.. However once they get here the husband will start working for an american company in his field and try to get sponsored that way, so they have other options.

I do feel for the kids as it really is no fault of their own..........

[charliesmum]

When we came out 4 years ago on an E2 visa, we would never have dreamt that there could be any way of the visa being changed. We knew the restrictions about staying permanently and kids reaching 21, but also knew that as long as we were running a good business, with profit and employing americans, there shouldn't be a reason for us not to be renewed time and time again. When our kids got to 21 there were a few options - college and F1 visa or buying them their own business and them getting their own visas. As long as we owned a business, we would be able to stay.

Since being here, the renewals situations have changed, and now it isn't a matter of course that you will get your renewal. Although I don't agree with some who say if the Visa guy is having a bad day you will be denied, it is a fact (and having been through our first renewal and everything that went with it, I know this) that they now require a lot more information and the whole returning to the UK and not knowing till you get there if you will be approved is very different to how it used to be. It's not that long ago - and since we came here - that renewals had to be done in your own country and not here.

So yes we did all know how it was before we came, but why should that stop us trying to change things. If it doesn't happen, then we will carry on and put in place the ways we had thought of originally to stay here.

Lots of E2 people on this forum have had situations that have been brought about by scam artists and rip off merchants - are they just supposed to not try to make things easier for themselves to stay here.

So we don't get into more of the arguments that have gone on over the last couple of weeks, perhaps some people should think before they write!!!!!

Zoe

[lorraine]

Zoe its seems to me that people are thinking before they write and everyone has their experience, no one is being nasty they are just putting their opinion across and as said by everyone it is sad for the kids........ the forum is about debate and that is what is happening

[charliesmum]

Tracy

As an E2 Visa Holder, I'm afraid I rather take exception to you 'admiring' me.

I never feel as though i don't belong here, even when we were waiting for our renewal interview and had lots of hassles we got on with life and didn't worry every day.

If we are not renewed at any time in the future, we will leave this country having had a great time here, made lots of friends and move somewhere else. Hopefully by that time our kids will be in a position to stay, either through the policy having changed or by our family efforts to keep them here, but if Steve and I have to go, we will go together.

I have written to the Congessman and if I have an opportunity to meet with him I shall do, to try and help the cause of the E2er.

Zoe

[tracifrost]

i dont think it is really a case here of thinking first before writing, there will always be those in agreement, those in disagreement, thats what keeps the forum alive!

[charliesmum]

Lorraine - I think you will find that a large majority of E2 parents will have some plan ready for when their kids hit 21. There are options open to you and hopefully they can be worked out and the kids can stay.

I don't consider my kids need to be thought of as sad - they are having a great time here, with loads more opportunities than they would have had before.

We have options in place for their futures - the main being the school they are both at - and trying to change things is one of those options.

Zoe

[lorraine]

Zoe I dont think Traci is trying to say anything like what you are interpruting it... I think like me she admires the fact you came here with 2 children not knowing exactly how you would get over all the obstacles re age out... I admire everyone that has made the move no matter what visa, as I think it is one of the toughest things to do ever (especially when you have family back home) also no matter what visa you are on , we all go through the nightmare time of renewal etc...

[Peter Dexter]

But at the same time Peter, You HAVE to admire, E2 visa holders, for their courage and determination. That alone, says a lot about this kind of visa.
There is no way i could live in a country where i neither lived here, or lived there.
That alone has to be applauded and given a :tu:

I completely agree, my hat goes off to those people, I would not and could not live like that.

When we had our L1 & L2 visas I remember the worry I felt about my green card application and sleepless nights about it not being approved. I cannot imagine how people who like it here feel when they realize they cannot stay.

I am not saying the rules should not be changed, I am saying that people got into it with their eyes open and the problems caused by the rules are caused by the people not the authorities.

I agree with charliesmum in his most recent post that it is not right to change the goal posts on renewals on people who are already here. They had their expectation when the got their E visas. Having said that, it would be impractical to have differing sets of rules for Visa renewals for people who moved to the USA at different times.

[lorraine]

Zoe I think it sad for the kids that have been thrown out not your kids, I know you have options in place for yours and that is great, I am talking about the ones that have gone with nothing...

[InnVic]

The problem is not with the visa - its with the desire of the applicant.
We have to accept that America is not an easy place to get into. Peter Dexter is correct in pointing out (IMHO) that E2 visa is a relativly simple procedure. I'm sure anyone who has gone through the years of frustration that is a green card process or has looked at Canada, Australia, New Zealand and weighed up the 4 year plus wait there versus the less than a year E2 option can see where I'm coming from. Its almost "instant gratification" - the problem with this is that the longer term consequences are ignored. As a means to a temporary residence and opportunity to do business then it fulfils its intention. However it is not an immigration visa, has never promised long term security and never will. We have to accept that there are NO LOOPHOLES in the immigration process....we all signed up to the intent to return home and that we accepted the E2 was "temporary". While some of us all "wish" it could be different you are kidding yourselves if you believe change of that magnitude will happen.

[lorraine]

Zoe its seems to me that people are thinking before they write and everyone has their experience, no one is being nasty they are just putting their opinion across and as said by everyone it is sad for the kids........ the forum is about debate and that is what is happening

Hi Zoe just wanted to clear up what I said, I didnt say any kids were sad or I thought of them as sad..........

I

[OberonSH]

Whilst I don't want to echo the 'You knew what you were getting into' entiments, a lot of the views are valid - this was never supposed to be a permanent visa from what I gather. Obviously some people get bad advice and are very surprised to find out it's not! However, I do agree that there doesn't seem to be any middle ground - the L1 requires a multinational approach (a right old headache), and the EB5 requires a lottery win, or Rich Uncle Silas to choke on a fish bone.

We are not considering E2 - we don't want it badly enough to go through the jumps that some poor so-and-sos go through, and I don;t want our kids watching Mum & Dad going potty every 2 years or so when it's dreaded Renewal Time. I do however agree that there should be a way that you could make a more permanent life if you so wish - I wholeheartedly agree that after meeting certain criteria there should be the option to make it permanent, or at least give the kids a more stable foothold in the country they (most likely) spent a lot of their life. It's been referred to as a 'try bfore you buy' visa - what's the use of trying if you can't buy?

BTW I bored my poor hairdresser stupid this morning with a tirade on the injustice of the E2 visa - I swear the nip on the ear with the straighteners was her way of making me shut up.....

[kirtida8]

If you could only move to the USA on an E visa, perhaps you should have thought twice about it, especially if you have children.

Maybe I should have - as I don't have the advantage of having a spouse who could maybe get sponsorship through employment - but I talked things through with my kids and we decided together that we would find ways for them to remain here beyond 21 if we were still here at that time. Remember that no one's visa renewal is guaranteed as it depends on your business's continued success. Also, I was hoping to convert to EB-5, which would have given me a pathway to greencard - but due to unforeseen circumstances that is now not an option for the time being - but may still be. It was only upon joining this site that I learned of the possibility of getting a change in the E-2 legislation that would after a qualifying period, grant permanent residency. Everyone keeps saying that the E-2 is a non-immigrant visa and it is not going to change, but until only recently, E-2 spouses were not allowed to work, so why is it so hard for people to believe that in time there could be the possibility that it could change to a dual intent visa? If you read Heather Wilson's proposed amendment, it clearly gives guidelines that would have to be met in order to change from non-immigrant to LPR, otherwise you stay as a non-immigrant.
If at the end of the day, nothing changes, then so be it - we will either find another way for the kids to stay here if they want to or move elsewhere. But at least I can say that I tried every avenue I could.

[kirtida8]

Also, the Dream Act is still in the running for enactment - and could possibly provide a pathway for the kids to remain here beyond 21.

[Susie]

Hi Everyone,

My congressman, Connie Mack, has agreed to take action if enough people contact him with concerns about E2 restrictions (no path to permanent residence/kids aging out etc.). I intend to absolutely bombard him with emails and have contacted everyone I can think of asking them to write. If you all do the same, we might be able to change the laws that are causing so much distress. I own a hair salon, so I have access to a lot of people who are willing to help.
The email address is ADRIAN.MIRABILIO@MAIL.HOUSE.GOV
If someone needs the address it is; Congressman Connie Mack
115 Cannon Building, Washington DC 20515

Now, start emailing!

Nina


Thank you Nina, well done you for trying to make a difference. I am not sure if you are aware but Congresswoman Heather Wilson does already have draft legislation to amend the E visa from a non immigrant to immigrant visa and she has a co sponsor. Bob from Aberqueue may have news on that issue

Our site, at the moment has two main aims, one to to protect all children againg out and the other is a compassionate visa on a case by case basis, that not to say we would not support other efforts in getting immigration laws changed.

Many immigration laws are so confusing and therefore badly interpreted and why changes must be made. Just because the E visa, is a non immigrant visa does not mean to say that E 2 people should not be rewarded (subject to good moral character) and meeting certain cirteria. After all, this is not the best visa possible, but the only way some people have a chance at living the dream.

Laws can always be imporved, and unless they move with the times will fall far behind and if changes are made for the better then many E 2 people will be able to have peace of mind and not fear if their business fails through a resession or no other fault of their own


I have left a message with the Washington office and Naples office to discuss further and sent my e-mail

Thanks once again, appreciate your help

[anne boland]

I have just read with great interest the replies to Nina and her request for interested parties to send an email to the office of Congressman Mack. What a simplistic view of the whole E2 situation some of you hold. We came here on an L1 visa and were denied our renewal at a point in time where we had pledged so much time and money into the whole situation we had no choice other than to switch to an E2. Added to that we had 2 kids then 15 and 17 at High School. I am saddened that there are people amongst us who rather than seeing this as an opportunity to change the law will sit in their ivory towers and pontificate that "we should have known better". The immigration system is a total mess, God forbid we all just accept it.

Nina.........keep the faith, onward and upward.

Anne Boland

[kirtida8]

Thank you Anne and :welcome: to the forum. Hope to get to know you a bit better. :hug:

[Susie]

There is not one person with an E2 visa that can claim not to have known the downside of the E visa. There is all this complaining about it, but no-one ever mentions that they are relatively easy to obtain, when compared with other visa’s such as an L1 or H1B and that most people on an E visa would not be in the USA without it.

People always want their cake and to eat it, the easy visa and permanent residence.

The visa is very specific about residence and time limits. My sympathy is with the people, but I cannot help thinking that the visa was not for them, and as mentioned above who would want to live in limbo like that?

I understand the issues people have, but I do think that Connie Mack (who is my congressman) would better use his timing to try to correct other issues in the USA such as expensive health care or crime, than pander to folks who knew exactly what they were getting into, or should have done.

Caveat Emptor applies to visa’s applications too!


Hi

You do have a valid point, but I believe the children of E 2 visa holders have no choice where they are brought to live. Many are bright enough to attend further education, get a degree then a job offer, however there are many children for whom have no option as they have learning or health difficuties

For many the E 2 visa is the only way they can come to live the dream so not really a case of want their cake and eat. What they want is peice of mind, which they will never have whilst the goal posts seem to move with renewal requirements.

Many of the immigration laws are broken and need fixing, including dealing with the illegal immigrants. If the law is changed and they illegals are rewarded would ask why can't the law be changed to E 2 holders so they can live in peace?

To be honest, I very much doubt the USA will ever get a health service, it is just too big business over here. I can see that maybe senators and congressmen are now begining to realise that E 2 holders could all well throw the towel in and return leaving many USC unemployed, so maybe they are looking at the economic effect and possible new voters, if they change the law for E 2 people? Just a thought

[britcan]

I think everyone is missing the point here...

from my own perspective, I am bitching about the fact that these illegals are looking to get a path to citizenship, and most likely they will get it because of the sheer number of them and the Hispanic voters who are already here- lets face it if you have the ACLU and the American Chamber of Commerce behind them, then the chances of it passing are good.

Why should we go the legal and proper way to get to the USA- its just not right that we are jumping through hoops and turning backward somersaults.... thats what I am talking about... does'nt matter what kind of visa you are on

Double standards...:mad:

[Susie]

Hi I cant see why they should have to change it, we didnt take that option as we knew it wasnt right for us... If you take the E2 visa option you know that at 21 your child will age out we knew that we could not deal with this so therefore didnt go for an E2 visa. We also knew it would never lead to perm residence and again this would not work for us..

People take the E2 like Inn Vic for good reason and they are using it as it should be used...

Valid point Lorraine

I can see what you mean when you say why should the law be change, but not everyone is able to come on any other way.

My husband got an L visa, he did not have to commit hundreds of thousands of dollars into the USA and at least he could come and go to and from the USA as and when he chose

I am really worried about the nember of people I keep hearing about who are landlocked, these are E 2 people who do not have an option to apply for a travel document as L visa holders can. Many who are landlocked are in this position through no fault of their own, so some laws must be changed to redress that at least

I have said many times, it is possible to get a green card, if you first arrive on an E visa although not directly, not easy but it can and has been done

[Susie]

I will not keep repeating myself. An E2 is a NON imiigrant renewable visa. No one will ver change that.
The misery caused when an E2 business owner dies, or a child reaches 21 are possible to avoid by change and I support that.
Do not attempt to make an E2 into an immigrant visa as it just will not happen.

Hi Peter

I do agree and feel that it is very doubtful that this will happen and why our site is focused on amending the CSPA to include E 2 dependant children and other children who still age out despite the intension of the act.

Thinks of it this way, if we get an amendment to CSPA the children can get a green card and inturn sponsor their parents !

I do feel that a compassionate visa must be introduced so that if an E visa holder passes away, the spouse can not only inherit the biz but the visa too

[peter gold]

Susie you and I agree then.
Note for a child to sponsor a parent they must be aged 18, but then the wait is only 6 months after that.

[Susie]

I completely agree, my hat goes off to those people, I would not and could not live like that.

When we had our L1 & L2 visas I remember the worry I felt about my green card application and sleepless nights about it not being approved. I cannot imagine how people who like it here feel when they realize they cannot stay.

I am not saying the rules should not be changed, I am saying that people got into it with their eyes open and the problems caused by the rules are caused by the people not the authorities.

I agree with charliesmum in his most recent post that it is not right to change the goal posts on renewals on people who are already here. They had their expectation when the got their E visas. Having said that, it would be impractical to have differing sets of rules for Visa renewals for people who moved to the USA at different times.

Hi Peter

I have to disagree with your comment people come here with their eyes wide open

There are many business brokers and visa scammers who tell you anything you want to hear just to get a signature on a peice of paper. Once your over here you then find out your do not have a business thats worth the paper it is written on, and you do not even have a visa!

Our victim support group is working with people that fall into that catorgory and members of our site. There is so much going on behind the forum it is truely shocking, if only I could post it. One day hopefully soon I might be able to

[tracifrost]

[QUOTE=britcan;33717]

from my own perspective, I am bitching about the fact that these illegals are looking to get a path to citizenship, and most likely they will get it because of the sheer number of them
Thats not likely to happen anytime soon, for a start those who applied and done everything legally. greenholders alike, will sue the govenment for wasting time, spending money to stay here legally.
There are over 10 million illegals, but 100 million legals, who like me given the chance would sue the govenment to the highest, for wasting time

[Susie]

The problem is not with the visa - its with the desire of the applicant.
We have to accept that America is not an easy place to get into. Peter Dexter is correct in pointing out (IMHO) that E2 visa is a relativly simple procedure. I'm sure anyone who has gone through the years of frustration that is a green card process or has looked at Canada, Australia, New Zealand and weighed up the 4 year plus wait there versus the less than a year E2 option can see where I'm coming from. Its almost "instant gratification" - the problem with this is that the longer term consequences are ignored. As a means to a temporary residence and opportunity to do business then it fulfils its intention. However it is not an immigration visa, has never promised long term security and never will. We have to accept that there are NO LOOPHOLES in the immigration process....we all signed up to the intent to return home and that we accepted the E2 was "temporary". While some of us all "wish" it could be different you are kidding yourselves if you believe change of that magnitude will happen.


Hi

I do wish this would happen but doubt it. Thats not to say that we (expatsvoice) would not support any legislation to amend should it be brought and introduced as per Heather Wilson's office.

At the moment the best E visa holders can do is concentrate on building up their business so much so that it is apparent that it will need someone of extremly high expertise to run on a perminat basis, that person is more likely than not the owner of the biz, if you get my meaning ;)

The the company can sponsor that person for labour cert and if approved green card

[Susie]

Susie you and I agree then.
Note for a child to sponsor a parent they must be aged 18, but then the wait is only 6 months after that.

Hi Peter

I thought the child had to be 21 years old as a LPR and sponsor them financially too

[chris]

As an E2 Visa holder I get pretty ticked off when I hear the L Visa holders sitting in their little ivory towers telling us all how it should be done and how we E2'rs must eat cake. Well sorry, you're bang out of order.
As Peter Gold did highlight, but which seems to have gone in one ear and out the other of some L'rs, many E2'rs were not as fortunate to have an 'existing real business' (I use that term loosely) in the UK and therefore the L visa was never, ever, ever an option for them. For us it could have been and I put our E route down to bad advice and insufficent knowledge of 'ways & means' to the L visa, which in hindsight we could have secured easy peasy back in 2000. Please don't give me platitudes as to how hard it is for an L and how easy it is for an E. It is hard both ways and not getting any easier. I find this holier than thou attitude also emanates from some more fortunate GC holders, who seem to hold court like they are the kings and queens of wisdom and knowledge. If I have upset with my opinion, any of the L Visa holders on this thread who don't support change, then so be it. I value a co-E2'rs opinion any day.
On the more important topic of visa change, I would reiterate that nothing ever stands still and changes do occur. We've already seen the important change to the E visa for the spouse, so with enough effort and commitment by large numbers, then more change can be accomplished. As a parent of 2 young sons that have lived here for the past 8 years and are mini-americans in every sense of the word, then as Kirtida put it, there should be an avenue for them to have LPR status and ultimately citizenship. That would seem an eminently sound move as in the longer term would offer the chance for sponsorship once those kids have become citizens and passed the magic age threshold.
On a final note to the L Visa -ve's, this is an E2 reform measure. if you don't want to be involved on a +ve level, please go take your bat and ball some place else and maybe start looking at the shortcomings of your own visa, before berating people who are working hard to change theirs. If you are happy to play ostrich - head in sand, and accept whatever is thrown at you by way of immigration scraps, then that is your choice. But please do not crib or carp at the folks who are doing something +ve about their status and their futures.

[kirtida8]

Well said Chris, I've been waiting patiently all day for your input LOL

[lorraine]

Valid point Lorraine

I can see what you mean when you say why should the law be change, but not everyone is able to come on any other way.

My husband got an L visa, he did not have to commit hundreds of thousands of dollars into the USA and at least he could come and go to and from the USA as and when he chose

I am really worried about the nember of people I keep hearing about who are landlocked, these are E 2 people who do not have an option to apply for a travel document as L visa holders can. Many who are landlocked are in this position through no fault of their own, so some laws must be changed to redress that at least

I have said many times, it is possible to get a green card, if you first arrive on an E visa although not directly, not easy but it can and has been done

Hi Susie I agree the fact that no one should be landlocked it is terrible (and I myself have been landlocked before , and I felt like a prisoner)...

The only thing I dont understand is when people keep going on about the E2 and children ageing out (I do understand that some were not advised properly) but for the ones that knew then I dont understand as they knew this when they took the E2 visa. (As said before we looked at E2 and if we couldnt have done another route, we would not have come to America..

I think people through no fault of there own who have ended up here with no visa or change should be granted a way to stay ie (Carol as one example L visa)

You are right also about E can lead to Green card as we have a friend who has just done exactly that.

I think if you have done everything correct and you are going through hell you should stamp scream and get help.........

I also dont believe the people who have come in on holiday visas etc and tried to beat the system have any right to complain.(Which there are a few that we all know)

[chris]

Quote
"The only thing I dont understand is when people keep going on about the E2 and children ageing out (I do understand that some were not advised properly) but for the ones that knew then I dont understand as they knew this when they took the E2 visa. (As said before we looked at E2 and if we couldnt have done another route, we would not have come to America.."
So what you're saying is shut up complaining and just accept what you get? And if you don't like it, leave?
If that's what you're saying for E2'rs then thank you for your input, but please take it somewhere else if you can't be anymore +ve on the matter. Please don't ask me to cry into my tea when I hear the horror stories about the L'rs who have 'done everything right' and then been denied at renewal. My response would be the same as yours. You knew the gamble, you lost, so suck it up and get on with it.
If that attitude was all prevailing, we would probably not even have a VWP program (someone somewhere pushed hard for that), spouses on E visa would still be non-persons with no SS# and no EAD access. My wife did nearly 4 years under that regime before the change. As a man replying to a woman perhaps I might remind you that it took a lot of effort and even a life by some of your forebears to allow you the vote and many of the freedoms that you now enjoy and take for granted as a woman. If we all sat there and accepted what we were handed out, we would nevere make any progress. I take my hat off to all and everyone one on this site who works hard for change, no matter how small that is. To the -ve's and knockers I say go play somewhere else.

[tracifrost]

Must it be America though?? just a question, why not other countries, that once your children reach the age of 21, you can be assured they can stay in that country. They dont god forbid, have to ask their parents,
'why are we leaving America'
'oh because we really thought it would change by now, and it hasnt, im so sorry kids, we came here with the best intentions, but it wasnt to be......'
For this reason i mean, couldnt it of been Portugal, Spain, Greece, France, to name but a few.

[MrsL]

Chris well said ! I agree with everything you say.

This thread is headed E2 visa reform and is informing people who may want to take action in helping to bring about reforms, an action they can take.
It didn't ask any questions about whether changes could or should be made, just telling those who were interested what they could do.

There are plenty of threads asking for opinions (mine usually always are!). It is so tiring to read the same old views about E2 / L1, etc., and it would be nice to actually log on to this thread and read that people have sent their email, that they have received feedback, etc, without being wound up by the "I'm alright Jack" crowd.

[chris]

Just to educate you Traci, the countries you mentioned are part of the EU where there is complete freedom of movemnet, right of work and abode for UK citizens.
America, being a non EU country has its own immigration laws, just the same as the UK has its laws that perhaps the Yanks may feel equally aggrieved about.
I just don't get responses like yours and Lorraines and I really do wonder whose side you are on? No-one on this site is 'trying it on' or attempting to get something for nothing. We are trying through legitimate routes with sound reasoning and effcetive argument that the law as it stands can be modified to improve it for the betterment of this country. What is wrong with that?
If you are just cribbing for cribbing sake and don't have anything +ve to contribute, then I for one would prefer silence from you both or perhaps you could start your own L visa revisions thread.

[tracifrost]

[QUOTE=chris;33751]Just to educate you Traci, the countries you mentioned are part of the EU where there is complete freedom of movemnet, right of work and abode for UK citizens.

Exactly Chris thats why i mentioned them, ie easy to get into and easy to stay when the children reach 21!;)
That said, im going to finish this one on a positive to all E2ers, they probably have more guts and determination than people like me on an L1 visa.

[MrsL]

Must it be America though?? just a question, why not other countries, that once your children reach the age of 21, you can be assured they can stay in that country. They dont god forbid, have to ask their parents,
'why are we leaving America'
'oh because we really thought it would change by now, and it hasnt, im so sorry kids, we came here with the best intentions, but it wasnt to be......'
For this reason i mean, couldnt it of been Portugal, Spain, Greece, France, to name but a few.

Come on now. That is so insulting. Nobody just uproots their kids and takes them to another country on a whim. Give us credit for some intelligence.

[tracifrost]

[QUOTE=chris;33751]Just to educate you Traci, the countries you mentioned are part of the EU where there is complete freedom of movemnet, right of work and abode for UK citizens.

Exactly Chris thats why i mentioned them, ie easy to get into and easy to stay when the children reach 21!;)
That said, im going to finish this one on a positive to all E2ers, they probably have more guts and determination than people like me on an L1 visa.

[InnVic]

There has been alot of mention about people "being given bad advice" or "not being told the facts about the visa". It does worry me that people are not doing their own research but blindly taking as gospel the platitudes of some (often less than) professional.

E2 may be the only way to get to the US for many. And if it is the only way then you have to accept the compromises. If you are NOT prepared to accept the compromises then you should really think long an hard before applying for this visa. IF changes happen then thats all well and good - but to rely upon change in a timescale that will suit your personal agenda is foolhardy.

[kirtida8]

IF changes happen then thats all well and good - but to rely upon change in a timescale that will suit your personal agenda is foolhardy.
InnVic is online now Add to InnVic's Reputation Report Post Reply With Quote

I don't think anyone is saying that the changes could happen within our own "personal agenda", but that if change is possible, why can we not all try and support it? If you feel that you do not want to support any action that could lead to an eventual change - that is your prerogative, but please don't berate those of us who are trying - just because we are trying! Even if it does not benefit my own kids, it will not stop me trying to get a change so that others who may also find themselves unable to go any other route than the E-2, may have the opportunity - after meeting certain criteria - to a more permanent solution and more importantly peace of mind.

[tracifrost]

True Kay, people have the power to change things, for good, better etc etc.
I will support even though i am on an L1, a petition to change things for E2ers, anyday!

[charliesmum]

I don't think any E2 person has ever given the impression that they are using the hopeful changes as a way to deal with the aging out scenario.

Tracy you obviously didn't read my post properly or you would realise that we had other options in place for our kids before we even arrived here. Yes they were 12 and 10 when we arrived but we all know how quickly time runs away. We had talked to VAs and others on the visa to find out what our options were and supported our kids to get into the best school they possibly could so they had a good choice of scholarships for college. We are looking at all the different ways they can go to college and whether we need to change them onto F1 visas and if so at what time.

We are very hopeful for change but have never ever thought it is the only way we will stay here.

By the way we came to America and Florida mainly because Steve's Dad was living out here. Portugal, Spain or wherever else you assume would be a better place for us wouldn't have had him living there, would it. Actually he died last year, but had 3 full years of seeing his grandchildren regularly and I am very grateful that we did what we did.

It's people like you that I am making the comments about think before you write. You seem to have upset a lot of folks on this forum with your condescending remarks.

Zoe

[lorraine]

I would just like to say I am not coming across like I ok Jack!!!! We have been to hell and back on our visa also and nearly went bankrupt twice not easy at all. I am on the side of the british and the ones that come in the proper way, .... all I said was we didnt take the E2 route due to the age out and if that was our only route, we would not have moved to America... I have some very good friends here on E2 and they are all putting other things in place or have come here with the thought of not staying permanately.

I think all of us no matter what visa go through crap and it is the hardest thing ever on a family... I just couldnt have done the E2 route myself....

[tracifrost]

[QUOTE=tracifrost;33752That said, im going to finish this one on a positive to all E2ers, they probably have more guts and determination than people like me on an L1 visa.[/QUOTE]

For the benefit of Zoe, i ended this on a positive note, please see my above quote. I am well aware of what i am writing, but please dont keep mentioning the fact that i may have upset a lot of 'folks' on the forum. The forum whether it be, please or offend, should be used to voice opinion. Whether good or bad, right or wrong. etc etc,
is purely people voicing their opinions, I for one dont take, or should i say try not to take anything personally. I get on with it and move on.

[lorraine]

Quote
"The only thing I dont understand is when people keep going on about the E2 and children ageing out (I do understand that some were not advised properly) but for the ones that knew then I dont understand as they knew this when they took the E2 visa. (As said before we looked at E2 and if we couldnt have done another route, we would not have come to America.."
So what you're saying is shut up complaining and just accept what you get? And if you don't like it, leave?
If that's what you're saying for E2'rs then thank you for your input, but please take it somewhere else if you can't be anymore +ve on the matter. Please don't ask me to cry into my tea when I hear the horror stories about the L'rs who have 'done everything right' and then been denied at renewal. My response would be the same as yours. You knew the gamble, you lost, so suck it up and get on with it.
If that attitude was all prevailing, we would probably not even have a VWP program (someone somewhere pushed hard for that), spouses on E visa would still be non-persons with no SS# and no EAD access. My wife did nearly 4 years under that regime before the change. As a man replying to a woman perhaps I might remind you that it took a lot of effort and even a life by some of your forebears to allow you the vote and many of the freedoms that you now enjoy and take for granted as a woman. If we all sat there and accepted what we were handed out, we would nevere make any progress. I take my hat off to all and everyone one on this site who works hard for change, no matter how small that is. To the -ve's and knockers I say go play somewhere else.

Wow Chris, you seem to have taken everyhting I have said the wrong way... But hey whatever....

By the way , we know we take a gamble on the L and the only people I feel really sorry for on E or L are the ones who have done everything correct and through no fault of their own they get denied..... I dont feel sorry for people that come in the wrong way and try it on and I am just saying that we do know that E2 leads to child age out............ great yes try to fight it , but if you dont win , dont get annoyed as this was the rule....... that is all I am saying.

Oh and by the way chris I dont expect you to cry in your tea at all, and when you were going through crap on your renewal I was behind you 100 percent I thought it was outrageous, as you had done nothing wrong as a family.......... so maybe that clears things up,.

Oh and yes I take my hat off to people that make changes and I agree 100 percent , all I said and I will say it again we all knew that was the rules (great if they can be changed).

Good luck , hope you get it changed, or that you have other options in place

[tracifrost]

Also i think its hard enough in one way or another for a lot of us here, whether this be financially or missing friends and family.
We all do have one thing in common though, which is the fact we are immigrants to this country and most of us brits. I for one, would like to keep the friends i have and not try to alienate anybody.

[Sharon]

Ok then Peter, why don't you email Adrian and state your support for this. I have no problem with never getting a green card for myself - but why should my kids not have the same rights as those on an L-1/L-2 after all they had no choice but to accompany me here.

Yes,

Children should be treated equally . I do wonder what effect our actions are doing to our children/ We did not realise what issues they face even meeting and making new friends did not come easy to them at first. We came here to try to give our children and ourseleves a better life and on the whole it is but do live in fear that our business can fail through something that is beyond our control and loose everything we have worked so hard for, such a worry at times

[Kriz1]

Must it be America though?? just a question, why not other countries, that once your children reach the age of 21, you can be assured they can stay in that country. They dont god forbid, have to ask their parents,
'why are we leaving America'
'oh because we really thought it would change by now, and it hasnt, im so sorry kids, we came here with the best intentions, but it wasnt to be......'
For this reason i mean, couldnt it of been Portugal, Spain, Greece, France, to name but a few.

Our daughter timed out for Canada at 18....so we give it a miss...glad really it would not of been for us...

[Sharon]

Chris well said ! I agree with everything you say.

This thread is headed E2 visa reform and is informing people who may want to take action in helping to bring about reforms, an action they can take.
It didn't ask any questions about whether changes could or should be made, just telling those who were interested what they could do.

There are plenty of threads asking for opinions (mine usually always are!). It is so tiring to read the same old views about E2 / L1, etc., and it would be nice to actually log on to this thread and read that people have sent their email, that they have received feedback, etc, without being wound up by the "I'm alright Jack" crowd.

Hi

I am one who sent an e-mail and asked if children could be treated fairly in line with all other children who are lucky enough for their parents to come to the us on an L visa. Ok, I knew the score when I came too and just hoped my children will be able to get a degree and stay but what if they fail?

[Sharon]

There has been alot of mention about people "being given bad advice" or "not being told the facts about the visa". It does worry me that people are not doing their own research but blindly taking as gospel the platitudes of some (often less than) professional.

E2 may be the only way to get to the US for many. And if it is the only way then you have to accept the compromises. If you are NOT prepared to accept the compromises then you should really think long an hard before applying for this visa. IF changes happen then thats all well and good - but to rely upon change in a timescale that will suit your personal agenda is foolhardy.

Trouble is Inn Vic we only found out we got bad advise after we arrived in the usa. It is a shame we did not know about this site beforehand cos we would have gone another route. and we did do our homework or so we thought but not well enough

[chris]

Sharon,
I agree 100% on what you said. It is a very perfect person who knows 100% about 100% of what they need to know when they enter the US. It has been said many times as answers to Visa wannabe's that the learning process starts in earnest when you arrive.
For those on E2 without children it is one very big headache not to have to worry about and IMHO the E2 visa suits some as a sort of 'retirement visa' as it works against family units as distinct from H&W. A comment was made about the 'temporary nature' of the.
Quote" have some very good friends here on E2 and they are all putting other things in place or have come here with the thought of not staying permanately".
Let's just say that I didn't uproot from the UK, move 3000 miles, plonk my family in a strange place and invest over $200K with the thought of not staying around!
Let's also say that the E2 Visa is like the Immgration system itself - broken. If you stand back and look at what you are expected to do: invest considerable sums of money, create PERMANENT jobs of USC's and at the end of the day regarded as temporary, it beggars belief.
As I said earlier, many have/had no other sensible or viable option other than E Visa. I will also state that many L visa profiles relative to their businesses back in the UK are scurriless to say the least and those folks are playing the system. A situation that the E visa lot cannot do, yet if you look at the business side of things in the US, they are doing/achieving the same thing. I am sure I am going to fire up some L'rs with my remarks, but from what I've seen and heard that is what is happening.
I really do get dumbfounded that we have a hard enough time trying to educate the masses over here, yet our own kind are fighting against us. That logic is lost on me totally.
If members put as much time, effort and hot air into positive things, instead of agrguing amongst themselves, we would achieve a whole lot more. But then, whilst debate is a healthy thing it is often a convenient way of deflecting away from the issue at point, which is Visa reform. Maybe, the initail posting should be reposted to remind us all why we are here spouting hot air and getting no where fast. If the psot asks us to support something, then I think we should heed that request and put up or shut up. Simple as that.

[Kriz1]

http://www.immigrantslist.org/page/speakout/DREAM

[Kriz1]

http://www.immigrantslist.org/page/s/yourstory

[Nina]

Chris, well said, my friend.

Debate is all very well, but action is what we need. Everyone should get busy recruiting their family, friends, golfing buddies, neighbors - anyone they can think of to write to congressman Mack. Nothing was ever achieved by complacent people. We must show ourselves to be a formidable force, and that means an avalanche of emails. They don't have to be long and complicated, just to the point about the irrational situation we are faced with. It's perfectly normal for someone to go to a country temporarily and then decide they would like to stay, especially if they have a successful business and a settled family, not to mention dependent employees! All we are asking for is a route to PR after satisfying certain criteria. I'm currently working on getting some press coverage - if anyone knows anyone who can help, please let me know (or, better yet, get them to interview you or tell them about this website).

Some people are saying we'll never change the system, I say - let's make them eat their words.

Thanks to all of those with a positive and encouraging outlook.

NIna

[peter gold]

Nina live in the real world.
Read the history of the Treaty Investor Visa. It is a bilateral trade treaty between the US and recognised countries which has been in existence for thirty plus years.
It applies to dozens of countries not just the UK. It is and always will be a NON immigrant visa. To change it to a dual intent visa would be a political act that no one will ever get through.
Get Connie Mack on your side to do what is possible, amend the act to cover the ageing out of kids and permitting spouses to inherit the visa status

[Sharon]

Nina and Peter,

Yes lets contact them to at least listen to what we have to say. We all have different opinions as to whether or not E 2 parents should get a green card but think we can agree that all children deseve a chance, the same chance. I am confused about the Dream act, will this help E 2 children or not ?. I would like to think so but as they are documented (well until they are 21) somehow think they are not included

[peter gold]

Dont get me wrong I would love all who want them to get a green card, but that is not going to happen.
All I am saying is be realistic in your reform goals.

[OberonSH]

We've already got some amendments going through, and we should all be happy that little by little things are being done. There's probably a lot going on underneath, like a ducks legs. With all the reform there may be someone up there who realises that things are just so uneconomical they need a total overhaul. If not little and often will also do the trick. There's no point creating a divide between the E2ers & L1 ers, none of the visas are perfect and I can't see how anyone can feel superior dependant on which letter they happen to have in their passport. We're all in (or going to be in) the same boat, so we need to pull together.

I got a notice through yesterday about another 'Emigrate' show going on somewhere, so I reckon there's about to be another surge in interest. Lets hope the scammers have got the message!

[kirtida8]

The history of the USA since it declared independence has shown that laws can be amended - and this is all we are asking for! Not a change in the law, but an amendment!!! Only in a dictatorship can a law not be changed or amended, and the last time I looked - the USA was not a dictatorship, so change is possible - however slowly that may come.

[chris]

I for one will support whichever measureS may bring improvements for my Visa category. If other individuals in other visa categories won't/don't, then that's their prerogative, but don't criticise the E section lot or be -ve. As far as which measure will succeed and which won't, let's not get above ourselves and our own self-importance and accept that is the politicians in the US NOT us who put forward the law changes, debate them and decide them. Much as I hate many politicians, let's credit them with some level of intelligence and not try and spoon feed them with what WE selfishly want. If a US politician wants to help our cause (and I accept that E is more than the UK), then we work with that politician, BUT they do the calling NOT us. Of course, I am sure that if the majority who help that politician are UK as distinct form another nationality, then commonsense dictates our views will have precedence over those that can't/won't be bothered to get off their butts.
Oberon hit the nail on the head - we all need to pull together, not bicker amongst ourselves or debate whether black is white.

[Kriz1]

I don't know why anyone would feel superior....we all have some problems not matter what visa we are on... none of us have many rights to stay here until we become Americans...we were 25 when we first thought about moving to the USA and we got here at 40....found out we could of come here at 25 anyway had hubby had a job offer... oh well we live and learn....and I had a better time in the UK than I would of had living here so everything came out OK in the wash in the end....

[anne boland]

So, how many of you have sent your email to Congressman Mack? It should take approximately the same time as posting here to complain/pontificate/bicker/gloat, etc etc. For all you who want change, get changing, for all those who want to sit on their laurels, go sit somewhere else.

[Kriz1]

People are on the forum for different reasons Anne...if people wish to write they will if they don't...then that is up to them....

[MrsL]

So, how many of you have sent your email to Congressman Mack? It should take approximately the same time as posting here to complain/pontificate/bicker/gloat, etc etc. For all you who want change, get changing, for all those who want to sit on their laurels, go sit somewhere else.

Well said Anne. I have sent mine.

"People are on the forum for different reasons Anne...if people wish to write they will if they don't...then that is up to them...."

That is very true, but the purpose of this particular thread was to offer an email address for the people who wanted to write, it wasn't really an invitation for everyone to voice their opinion on whether or not changes should be made. There are so many threads already discussing that.

[Kriz1]

People have a right to voice an opinion on any topic...if someone wishes to have a topic made sticky and closed with just info on it...they have only to ask....if not the topic is open to anyone...as long as they are not rude...

[Kriz1]

I have reposted Nina info as a sticky..and locked it so the info does not get lost....

[chris]

Kriz,
Forums can be Action Stations or Hot Air Factories. Let's not turn Expats Voice in to the latter.

[charliesmum]

I wrote yesterday, but haven't had a reply yet.

Zoe

[kirtida8]

Well I was very surprised at the quick reply I got to my email I must say. I did also forward him a copy of Munish's draft legislation, which Adrian said he had forwarded to Connie Mack's legislative office. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[Kriz1]

Kriz,
Forums can be Action Stations or Hot Air Factories. Let's not turn Expats Voice in to the latter.


And thats why info can be made sticky and locked so it is always there for new members....and free from hot air.:)

[MrsL]

For those taking action, I have received an reply to my email already. I received one message to say that my email had been forwarded to their legislative staff.

I sent a reply saying thank you, and got this response, which I thought was very nice.

"No problem.

I know this issue is very important to the well being of you, your family, and friends. I will do all that I can to make sure your point is heard. I have personally met with many families and listen to the stories of hardships that are encountered with the E-2 visa restrictions.

Our office is aware of this problem and we thank you for personally expressing your opinion. "

[TeaPot]

Sharon,
I agree 100% on what you said. It is a very perfect person who knows 100% about 100% of what they need to know when they enter the US. It has been said many times as answers to Visa wannabe's that the learning process starts in earnest when you arrive.
For those on E2 without children it is one very big headache not to have to worry about and IMHO the E2 visa suits some as a sort of 'retirement visa' as it works against family units as distinct from H&W. A comment was made about the 'temporary nature' of the.
Quote" have some very good friends here on E2 and they are all putting other things in place or have come here with the thought of not staying permanately".
Let's just say that I didn't uproot from the UK, move 3000 miles, plonk my family in a strange place and invest over $200K with the thought of not staying around!
Let's also say that the E2 Visa is like the Immgration system itself - broken. If you stand back and look at what you are expected to do: invest considerable sums of money, create PERMANENT jobs of USC's and at the end of the day regarded as temporary, it beggars belief.
As I said earlier, many have/had no other sensible or viable option other than E Visa. I will also state that many L visa profiles relative to their businesses back in the UK are scurriless to say the least and those folks are playing the system. A situation that the E visa lot cannot do, yet if you look at the business side of things in the US, they are doing/achieving the same thing. I am sure I am going to fire up some L'rs with my remarks, but from what I've seen and heard that is what is happening.I really do get dumbfounded that we have a hard enough time trying to educate the masses over here, yet our own kind are fighting against us. That logic is lost on me totally.
If members put as much time, effort and hot air into positive things, instead of agrguing amongst themselves, we would achieve a whole lot more. But then, whilst debate is a healthy thing it is often a convenient way of deflecting away from the issue at point, which is Visa reform. Maybe, the initail posting should be reposted to remind us all why we are here spouting hot air and getting no where fast. If the psot asks us to support something, then I think we should heed that request and put up or shut up. Simple as that.

:(

Kind Regards,

[Kriz1]

Well I was very surprised at the quick reply I got to my email I must say. I did also forward him a copy of Munish's draft legislation, which Adrian said he had forwarded to Connie Mack's legislative office. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

You are really lucky...I've only ever got one letter back...and that had nothing to do with what I was talking about...just a standard reply...when I first started this visa help thing years ago... my English writing was really bad.:p ..and it took a lot for me to write something...:(

[Kriz1]

Do you think it would be a good idea to have a topic to post the e-mails people get back so they are easier to find...?

[chris]

Have done mine to Connie Mack and I will pass on the information to a couple fo E2 friends I know also.

[kirtida8]

Do you think it would be a good idea to have a topic to post the e-mails people get back so they are easier to find...?

Yes Kriz1 I do - along with the stories of visa troubles etc. That way a newbie can easily locate them instead of trawling through all the threads. It was suggested a couple of times that we have a dedicated tab similar to the games etc.

[Susie]

Got my reply today, and below is my e-mail



Thank you for your opinion!




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sue - Florida Villas [mailto:sue@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 2:56 PM
To: Mirabilio, Adrian
Subject: E visa holders/againg out of children



Hello



My name is Sue Ward co founder of www.expatsvoice.org



The website was set up to help any expat from any country currently residing in any of the 50 states or the USA or who would like to. We are a grassroots group aiming for legislative changes that are fair, balanced, non nonsense, common sense that reward legal immigrants has compassion whist securing the boarders



E 2 children are the forgotten children and have no status upon reaching 21 years of age. Any other legal dependant child does have a pathway to a green card E 2 children do not



These children have to find an alternative way to remain in the USA. Most are able to attend college gain a degree and eventually a job offer. However we have children that have learning difficulties or health issues that prevent this being an option



Should the Dream Act or Strive act go through to become law, these E 2 dependent children will be ignored



We believe children have no choice on where their parents bring them to live and should be treated equally, which they are not.



Also the CSPA (Child Status Protection Act) is badly written and needs a legislative fix as not all children are protected from ageing out.



For example a USC marries someone from the Philippines, the spouse has dependant children. The spouse can only sponsor their child one they have a green card themselves but which time their children have aged out



Should a visa holder pass away the spouse and children are immediately illegal. The spouse can inherit the business, (yet not work it ) go to probate, bury their loved ones yet they cannot work. If you can inherit the business you should be able to automatically inherit the visa



My own husband passed away last year and therefore had no option but to file a lawsuit against the USCIS et al in order to protect my own son aging out



I would welcome the opportunity to discuss the need for a compassionate visa on a case by case basis and amendment to the CSPA and can be contacted on (863) 424 xxxx



Respectfully yours



Sue Ward

[Susie]

I will follow up with a phone call next week as I feel they need to know we are now a very large group and will continue to grow.

Think we need baby steps, as one member quite rightly said "If we ask for too much we may get nothing" once we have a foot in the door and change on the way, that will be the time to ask for more help and support

[Callie]

I just want to throw my pennysworth in. I read somewhere (cannot find the link) that the E2 needed to be looked at because it does not replicate the visa that US citizens can get by going to the UK??
Is it right that within a relatively short period of time they can apply to become permanent residents of the UK? If the E2 is a Treaty Investor Visa between 2 countries then they should surely be identical rules. Before anyone shouts me down yes I know about the Dream Act etc, I am just merely highlighting the fact that the members here who are NOT on E2 visa's and have pointed out that "we knew what we were getting into". Yes we did/do know that it is a non-immigrant visa but are we not also allowed a slice of the dream to come to the USA just because the other visa's were not possible for us? This surely should be about a future for our children who some, at a very young age were brought here by loving parents who wanted to make a difference to their kids lives. My son has aged out and returned to the UK earlier this year, I have a 15yr old daughter here as well and what we shall do at next renewal in 2012 (we have just got a 5 yr renewal) is being planned now. I do not particulaly want a green card I am happy renewing as long as the business allows as long as my daughter can have some choices at the end of the day.

[charliesmum]

Very well put Callie - exactly my sentiments.

We didn't come over with the intention of ever getting a Green card - just hoped we could keep renewing - but as that avenue has become so much more difficult, it would be nice to open up our options. Especially for our kids.

I still haven't had a reply to my e-mail - not sure why.

Zoe

[chris]

Emailed my 5 cents worth to Connie Mack via Amilibilio?. Here was his response:
Quote"
Thank you for your opinion! I will promptly forward your email to our legislation staff in DC.
Hope you have a good day! "

Callie,
You mentioned about the UK visa that appears similar to the E2 and yet gives LPR and citizenship in double quick time to US citizens. Yes, there is a visa and I did ask Dean of the UK Consul about this. The answer I got was not what I expected, but seemingly the Foreign or Home Office in the UK seem to consider that their UK Visa is more comparable to the US EB5 Visa where you invest $500,000 minimum in the US. Whilst I am no expert on the EB5, I personally I don't think it is comparing apples with apples. The EB5 is about passive investment, whereas the E2 is about active, hands on investment and so is the UK visa we asked about. The depts seemingly just look at the dollar/pound amounts - do a quick currency conversion and say they are the same. They are not and I'd still say the E2 and the UK Visa are more closely comparable. So in my eyes we still do not have a level playing field. We also get people who, quite rightly, throw in the fact that the E2 Visa is not just about us UK'rs as its a worldwide visa. I accept that point of view. However it doesn't detract from the fact that if we UK Visa holders want a better visa deal, we shouldn't rely on anyone from elsewhere to fight our battles for us.

[TeaPot]

Very well put Callie - exactly my sentiments.

We didn't come over with the intention of ever getting a Green card - just hoped we could keep renewing - but as that avenue has become so much more difficult, it would be nice to open up our options. Especially for our kids.

I still haven't had a reply to my e-mail - not sure why.
Zoe

Hi Zoe,

I haven't had a reply either, hopefully because they have a lot of emails to reply to!

Kind Regards,

[OberonSH]

Whilst we cannot rely on the [giggle] special relationship, at the same time we can't be too Britsh about it i.e. poke our heads round the door and say 'awfully sorry to bring this tiny pont up, feel like such a rotten egg old chap, but it's just not cricket'. I was also surprised at the info from Dean that really the visas are not a political thing, but a trade thing (can't remember exactly, but it wasn't what we thought). I say they should be. Seems like we're setting ourselves up to be a doormat country - we'll have everyone elses hungry, weary and downtrodden, but when it comes to the other way round, suddenly al our mates stop answering the phone and don;t retunr our texts......

[Susie]

Well,

Just had a call today from Adrian thisafternoon! She is very impressed and going to call their Washinton office to fill them in

She has asked I send a brief letter and request a meeting to discuss in detail, so maybe I will get away for a long weeken, if only to Washington. She has also asked I follow up with a call next week and given me a contact name

[Susie]

Oh,

And she did comment that she has received an awful lot of e-mails from our site members, so a big thank you to all who sent them, cos this may well have prompted her call this afternoon

[Callie]

And she did comment that she has received an awful lot of e-mails from our site members, so a big thank you to all who sent them, cos this may well have prompted her call this afternoon

Hey when push comes to shove and all that jazz... I didn't get a reply but that's ok as long as we are being heard....

[kirtida8]

Well done to everyone and lets keep the momentum going.

[British Redneck]

I'm a lurker in these here parts but I've now done my bit by emailing the following missive:

To the Personal Attention Of Congressman Connie Mack

Dear Congressman Mack,

I understand that you have pledged to sponsor and support legislation which will improve the lot of foreign business owners holding E2 Visas.

On my completion of 29 years honorable service in the British Army my wife and I decided to settle in Central Florida. In 1992 we bought the assets of a small American owned corporation, established our own corporation, invested heavily in that corporation, employed US citizens and met all the requirements to be granted E2 Visas in 1993. At that time we were advised by immigration specialists that, in due course of time, we would be able to convert our visa to more meaningful Green Card status and ultimately to naturalize as US citizens.

A note to the knockers - this was at a time before the establishment of the internet and ready access to research materials and necessitated reliance on "expert advice".

We have since learned the bitter lesson that our dreams of becoming citizens of the USA must remain unfulfilled given the current immigration regulations. The investment in our corporation exceeds $200,000. We employ American citizens paying well over minimum wages. We are very active in the Kissimmee/Osceola Chamber of Commerce having been nominated "Small Business of the Year" on a number of occasions. We have won a reputation as activists for the benefit our community. We rode out the ravages of the 2004 hurricane season which destroyed our business and were denied FEMA assistance due to our immigration status. We are recognized as friends by many of the local and state politicians and yet we are unable to show our support of these worthy people by voting for them.

Our visas must be renewed every five years and we are already preparing our application due in the Summer of 2010. Success of this application is by no means guaranteed. We must demonstrate that our corporation is viable and, at the same time, prove that our considerable investment is at risk which is something of a dichotomy. The renewal process is both tedious and expensive demanding representation by an attorney. It is also now required that we return to the US Embassy in London for an interview and (hopefully) approval at the whim of a Consular official. Visa renewal and the possibility of denial hangs over us like the "Sword of Damocles" diverting our attention and energies away from building our business and ensuring a future and an income for our employees.

Congressman Mack, we are living the "American Dream" but unable to fully participate in the life of our adopted home. We are denied the privilege to support a politician at the polling booth. We may not judge our peers as members of a jury. We are humiliated by having our Driver Licenses restricted to temporary status renewable annually. We do not have the right to retire and live out our remaining years in our Florida home. In short, we are denied confidence in our future. I am loathe to whine about injustice but given the current movement to grant citizenship to illegal immigrants while denying that same privilege to people who have demonstrably earned that right can only be described as unfair.

Allan R. Collins
President - Accent Golf Cars, inc

It might do some good but watch out for the porcine airforce.

[charliesmum]

Great letter.

Zoe

[British Redneck]

Thanks, Zoe, years of education in the art of bull**** helps.

[Susie]

Thanks Redneck, truely appreciate your support

[bobinalbuquerque]

Congratulations to Nina for "opening" a door in the great state of Florida.I too sent a message off to congressman Connie Mack's office.

I would encourage any E2 forum members who are not aware of the Heather Wilson initiative to familiarise themselves with it,so far it has failed to gain support with the exception of a congress representative from I think N.Carolina.I have always thought that Florida should be at the forefront in bringing change and fairness to such a very deserving group of people in the U.S.A.

With Sue's approval I will forward this entire thread to Joshua Baca at Congresswoman Heather Wilson's Washington office. My knowledge of the great American people gained over 15 years of legal E2 status tells me they do not see this as something their politicians should "pander" over but rather something to act upon.

[Susie]

Please be my guest Bob,

Heather needs support for her cause and we need support for ours. I did speak in depth to Congressman Dave Weldon's offfice and ask they support Heathers Efforts. Terry Mulford informed me that he was sending copies of our draft legislation to their Washington office, mabe Josh can call Terry Mulford??

I do hope both senators can talk to each other and support each others efforts.


As you know E 2 children are the forgotten ones and there is an urgent need for a compassionate visa

[kirtida8]

Great letter British Redneck and welcome to the forum. Lets all keep the momentum going.

[Nina]

Thanks, Redneck, what a comprehensive letter. Everyone is doing a fabulous job and it's already time to take this campaign to the next level. We need to convince more congresspersons/senators to support the Wilson Bill.

Here's where you'll find their names; www.house.gov & www.senate.gov. Whenever you have a few minutes to spare, just pick out a couple of names and email them. Ask them to read the Wilson Bill - H.R.2310 (which you can also read on her website http://wilson.house.gov. Ask them to please, please co-sponsor it. Someone out there probably knows how to send a blanket email to them all, but I'm afraid that's beyond my current knowledge. We still need individuals to hound them until they sit up and take notice, they need to be aware of the injustice we are suffering and of our personal experiences, not to mention what our kids are going through. If we all pull together, we can make our dreams come true.

Thanks for your kind words, bobinalberquerque
Take care, all, & keep writing,

Nina

[Kriz1]

I've added Nina's last post to the E2 reform sticky....

[charliesmum]

OK I tried to get on her website with this link and it didn't work, so I went on the list of Congress and got on her site that way. Whereabouts does it have about her supporting our issues. I started trawling through it, but if someone knows where to look it would be easier.

Most of the congress people don't have an actual e-mail address - you have to write with your details and a short message and I assume they will then contact you if they are interested. Unless anyone knows differently.

I am happy over the next few days to write to all the Congress and Senators with a standard message, but maybe need some help to get me going.

Zoe

[Kriz1]

Zoe could you change the website link so it works ...:)

[Kriz1]

http://www.webslingerz.com/jhoffman/congress-email.html

[charliesmum]

OK Steve changed the link (I wouldn't have had a clue how to do it!!!) - it had an extra bracket on that was why it didn't work.

What we really need is a list of all the Aides e-mails - like the one for Connie Mack - I'm worried if I fill in the short e-mail they give you, where you have to put your name and address, if you're not in their district, they won't take any notice of it. Our guy is Adam Putnam and when I looked at his, it says only write if you are in my district.

I will try my guy's office on Monday to see if his aide can give me that or maybe Nina, you could ask at Connie Mack's office, as they are more open to our cause.

Zoe

[kirtida8]

Zoe, here is the link to the press release about Heather Wilson's bill

http://www.expatsvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2446

[charliesmum]

Kay Thanks very much, but I need it really to be on a website that's not our forum one.

Zoe

[Kriz1]

http://www.pcworld.com/printable/article/id,48788/printable.html

Found this thought people would find it interesting...

[kirtida8]

OK Zoe, try this from her website - you can scroll down till you get to the bill

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/R?d110:FLD003:@1(Rep+Wilson,+Heather)

[charliesmum]

Thanks - Number 78

Zoe

[kirtida8]

http://www.pcworld.com/printable/article/id,48788/printable.html

Found this thought people would find it interesting...

Ok, so as well as emailing, maybe we should fax?. Sending out that many letters might be cost prohibitive to most people.

[Callie]

Although that report is 6 years old now?

[Kriz1]

I know but I got an answer with a real letter this year after e-mailing for ages and getting nothing...

[charliesmum]

Ok I have just spoken to Adrian at Connie Mack's office, to see if there is such a thing as a list of e-mails for all the Aides. Apparently not, which is a shame.

So I can either write to all the Congress people by the e-mail way on their websites, which I'm worried will result in a large majority of them being ignored, or I can look at the cost of writing to each of them. I would like to send a copy of the Bill and a letter asking them to support it, but even the postage will be around $200 plus the cost of printing out the letters and copies of the bill.

Any thoughts on this and the best way to go.

Zoe

[Kriz1]

I would try e-mail first...see what answers you get....then try snail mail for the one's that don't answer...

[jay]

Ok I have just spoken to Adrian at Connie Mack's office, to see if there is such a thing as a list of e-mails for all the Aides. Apparently not, which is a shame.

So I can either write to all the Congress people by the e-mail way on their websites, which I'm worried will result in a large majority of them being ignored, or I can look at the cost of writing to each of them. I would like to send a copy of the Bill and a letter asking them to support it, but even the postage will be around $200 plus the cost of printing out the letters and copies of the bill.

Any thoughts on this and the best way to go.

Zoe

Hi Zoe could you not fax.
jayne

[kirtida8]

Hi Zoe could you not fax.
jayne

If there is a fax # available, that might be the most cost effective way - as only 1 letter (change name only) plus 1 copy of the legislation needs to be printed off.
If you let me know which ones you are writing/emailing/faxing to, then I could take some - so that the cost is spread. Just a thought.

[kirtida8]

I also have a customer who served for 15 years on the Republican National Committee, and have forwarded the info to him. He knows a lot of the people who run the country, including their handlers and backers. He says "It is a rough game you are playing in, but in the hands of the right person(s) and over time, you should be successful."
So fingers crossed.:)

[charliesmum]

Yeah I suppose faxing might not be a bad way to go - I will see if there are other responses and look at getting started later in the week.

I am conscious of the link that Kris put up about more notice being taken of 'Snail Mail' though, especially as we will have to write to the congress person and not the Aide.

Zoe

[Kriz1]

I found that when I was trying to help out a friend in CA...nothing to do with a visa... we had e-mailed everywhere..so we tried snail mail early this year and bingo...he got someone to listen...
I would still try e-mail first...or fax....I don't have a printer of a fax...but if you do me off anything for the MA area...I'll bring it back and post it...or try to get it to an office in person...

[Kriz1]

I just found this one Ted Kennedys site...

Although mail delivery to the United States Capitol offices has resumed, the delivery process is still very slow and not yet back to normal. Until the mail process is more timely, the best way to contact me or my Washington, DC staff remains either by fax at (202) 224-2417, phone at (202) 224-4543 or preferably via the contact form on this page.

Could be a problem with snail mail right now...

[Nina]

Have emailed Lou Dobbs in the hope of getting some airtime. Also contacted FAIR - Federation for American Immigration Reform asking them to help raise awareness.

Am ready, willing and able to write to congresspersons & senators and so is my bezzie mate, Anne Boland. Kirtida, just allocate us some states and we will get busy. Anyone else up to the task?

[chris]

Here's a suggestion if people are faxing letters or using snail mail. Whilst every one response will be individual and unique, if would be helpful if Susie, Punky or whoever did the Expats Logo, could make it available in a jpeg file. That way you could paste the logo and then size to fit on your letterhead to the ano. That way we are also getting the message across that we are part of a single organisation and not a bunch of disorganised n'ere do wells.

[Sharon]

Very interesting thread. Saw on another post Martinez wants to support the dream act so shall we hit him with e-mails, if he gets loads of us he might just help and include the e children in the dream act

[Munish]

Don't just say "e-children" - as was mentioned before he might not know the ins and outs of each type of visa. Say children here on non-immigrant visas, brought here by their Parents, and forced to go home at 21.

[British Redneck]

I sent essentially the same letter as above to Bill Nelson and to Mel Martinez as well as Connie Mack. Nothing yet from Mack or Nelson I got this form-letter response today from Martinez:

Thank you for contacting me regarding immigration reform. I
appreciate hearing from you and would like to respond to your concerns.

As you may know, on June 28, 2007, the Senate voted to set aside
debate once again on the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2007
(S.1639).

I firmly believe addressing this issue in a comprehensive manner
is critical to our nation’s security and continued prosperity. While
securing our borders is top priority, we must also address the economic and
law enforcement realities of having millions of illegal immigrants already
living and working in the United States. Any solution to this problem must
be practical to be effective. Efforts to secure our borders should be
coupled with necessary changes to our current ambiguous and ineffective
immigration policies to maximize security for our country. Additionally,
gaining operational control of the border will not cease the problem if we
do not gain control of our employment system. Please know that, I will
continue to work with President Bush and my colleagues in Congress to
develop a plan that will halt the flow of illegal immigrants crossing our
border while implementing needed changes to our immigration laws.

Again, thank you for sharing your thoughts with me. Do not hesitate
to contact me with any additional questions or comments. For more
information about issues and activities important to Florida, please sign
up for my weekly newsletter at http://martinez.senate.gov.

Sincerely,

Mel Martinez
United States Senator

File in the big round file...

[Grumpy]

ok, now my cage is rattled and will send an e-mail. Think I will just be john blunt and tell me the main problems and ask if he is willing to help. He can hardly give a standard reply if I ask specific questions, or can he?

[charliesmum]

Bet he will!!!

Zoe

[kirtida8]

Yep - I 2nd that Zoe - they all seem to have no backbone to actually put their money where their mouth is.

[British Redneck]

O.K. I heard from Bill Nelson this evening. It's still only a form letter but a tad more sympathetic:

Please do not reply to this e-mail. If you need to send another message to Senator Nelson, please use the form on his Web site: http://billnelson.senate.gov/contact/index.cfm#email



Dear Mr. Collins:

Thank you for contacting me regarding immigration reform. I appreciate your taking the time to share your thoughts with me.

Like you, I believe our immigration system is broken and needs to be fixed. That's why I voted to have a full debate and up-or-down vote on an immigration plan in the Senate. While the plan was not perfect, it would have been a first step toward securing our borders and enforcing our immigration laws.

The Senate decided against passing any reforms at this time. Please be assured that I will keep your thoughts in mind should the Senate resume consideration of comprehensive immigration reform.



P.S. From time to time, I compile electronic news briefs highlighting key issues and hot topics of particular importance to Floridians. If you'd like to receive these e-briefs, visit my Web site and sign up for them at http://billnelson.senate.gov/news/ebriefs.cfm

[Susie]

Hi British Redneck

Thank you for your efforts and sharing your replies

It does make me annoyed that they only ever seem able to send out bog standard replies

Is there any chance you could send a letter asking specific questions? Such as, will you support our efforts to amend The Child Status Protection act ? Can we meet to discuss? etc.,

Then surely they would have to give you a yes or no reply

[Kriz1]

I did that to Ted Kennedy Sue...still got the bog standard reply...

[Susie]

I did that to Ted Kennedy Sue...still got the bog standard reply...

Head and brick wall springs to mind. :fit:

[chris]

If all the letters are individual with no reference to EV, then don't be surprised if you get the usual standard reply to an 'individual' letter. Volumes of Letters that clearly show that they emanate from an umbrella organisation will not be so readily ignored.
I'll bet you the hispanic letters are not from ano's. They are organised.

[Nina]

I got the form reply re: immigration from Senator Bill Nelson. I emailed back saying I required a specific answer to my questions and got a much more personalised response! He (or someone on his staff) had obviously checked out Heather Wilsons's bill and promised to watch out for it going to full-committee level where Senators vote. I found that encouraging. We just have to keep banging away at this until enough people understand the problems, or they just get sick and tired of us and do something to help.

Nina

[chris]

Hammer and Chisel should be supplied to us all!!
Good, helpful feedback Nina.

[Grumpy]

I got the form reply re: immigration from Senator Bill Nelson. I emailed back saying I required a specific answer to my questions and got a much more personalised response! He (or someone on his staff) had obviously checked out Heather Wilsons's bill and promised to watch out for it going to full-committee level where Senators vote. I found that encouraging. We just have to keep banging away at this until enough people understand the problems, or they just get sick and tired of us and do something to help.

Nina Well done Nina please keep us updated :)