Attorney - Necessary or NOT?

[Bobby]

Hi All,

After my successful approval for another 2 years on L-1, I forgot to mention in my thank yous that I submitted my initial petition by myself, and subsequently filed the renewal petition myself.

I am posting this because I feel that anyone contemplating filing petitions with USCIS should know that it's possible to "do it yourself"

Now I'm not advocating that everyone shun the local or international visa attorneys, I'm just pointing out an alternative. I know it costs somewhere between $3000 - $30,000 if I'd used a lawyer to get me to where I am right now in my immigrant process, and I also know that doing it myself presented some risk.

My opinion is that if your case is solid and you've researched everything they could possibly expect to see in your paperwork, then I don't think it matters who fills it in and sends it.

I know that a lot of people are cringing whilst reading this at the prospect of going it alone, and it's definitely not for the feint hearted, but I wanted to have it widely known that you CAN actually do it all yourself.

Knowing what you all know now about your visa applications/renewals, and how much it's cost you, would you still use your current lawyer?

I suppose I just like being in control. I represented myself twice in court and won both times, so perhaps I'm lawyerphobic!! I just don't trust them. ;)

Bobby

[punky]

Technically lawyers aren't necessary - every form can be downloaded and submitted in your own name, even upto, and including an I-130 petition.

However, there's probably very few people that could actually do a petition, start to finish, on their own with no legal help. It takes a lot of work, research, reading and savvy... But on top of having to triple check everything, there's no comeback if you make a mistake. We know attorneys can make mistakes, but an someone with qualifications and experience is probably more likely to make one. The smallest mistake can ruin a petition and set people back many years, and possibly thousands of pounds/dollars.

I disagree though, when you said: "My opinion is that if your case is solid and you've researched everything they could possibly expect to see in your paperwork, then I don't think it matters who fills it in and sends it.". That's true-ish with forms, but when you have to submit a documentary evidence portfolio, like with the L-1 petition, then presentation goes a very long way. Without lying two different people can detail two different senarios. That means the difference between an approval and denial.

Congrats on what you did, but I wouldn't recommend it others. I would always recommend getting legal advice just so you have that support and fallback, to help stop you from making a mistake. Also, a lot of people's research points are forums, when advice given has no way of being verified. The ethos of this site is always double-check things with a proper accredited attorney. You never can be too safe.

[Bobby]

I disagree though, when you said: "My opinion is that if your case is solid and you've researched everything they could possibly expect to see in your paperwork, then I don't think it matters who fills it in and sends it.". That's true-ish with forms, but when you have to submit a documentary evidence portfolio, like with the L-1 petition, then presentation goes a very long way. Without lying two different people can detail two different scenarios. That means the difference between an approval and denial.



I think that can go both ways.

Take the happenings at the desk of the Immigration Officer.
X amount of petitions arrive each year from Y attorney and are reviewed by Z Immigration Officer. Z Immigration Officer isn't too keen on what Y Attorney's formatting, compilation or petition fluffing is like! and has basically seen 50 others like it and decides to pick it to bits because it looks exactly like the other 50 that just arrived from the same attorney.

If you've submitted ONE petition, and you've paid your fee and signed it, and your case meets the criteria, and the Immigration Officer can tick a box for every requirement that you meet correctly, it doesn't matter if the file arrives in a tatty brown envelope with the stamps upside down and the address in hieroglyphics. The case is the case.

I understand that there are certain ways to do things and that past success can be taken as acceptable presentation for future clients of attorneys, but I'm so cynical that, I think sometimes Immigration Officers can see through the "b*ll***t" of these formatted repetitive submissions. I just didn't want to pay $5k to someone to submit the same paperwork that I could for a little bit of my time and effort. It was never a money issue for me. If I thought using an attorney would have helped me, it wouldn't have mattered what it cost, but I didn't.

Bobby

[InnVic]

I have to agree with Bobby. We paid %k to our attorney for initial application which on reflection was not rocket science. He "forgot" to include some pretty obvious items like photocopies of passport and Profit and Loss accounts. He asked me to register the LLC as a sole member so JOn could get a spouse work permit(which I did) but then on the cover letter put it was owner 50/50 with my husband. Of course they asked for clarification - and instead of putting hands up he got us to change the company structure - and then charged us $1800 for the priviledge of putting right HIS mistake (we did of course not pay in full but not wanting to start a legal battle being on US soil only a few days we compromised) This delayed our application. This time I'm going it alone.
I was a magistrate in the UK. As a bench we were often sceptical of a defendant who "hid behind" a high priced lawyer.(I accept for many a lawyer was the wise choice but for the rest you knew why they were there!) I think they had a harder job as we expected more. The "Regular Joe" - a guy who had done some research, presented his case factually and with some humility often received a more sympathetic ear. This is because we're human - the officials who read and adjudicate your visa case are human too. The worst I can lose is time - the best, I can save $5000!

[Kitty]

Hi

Well , I am on the other side of the fence,

Whilst I agree that it is possible to file yourself with my luck things would not go according to plan

It is not until things go wrong when you could kick yourself for not having an attorney

The main problem imho is finding the right attorney that is knowledgeable, cares and at a resonable cost.

[Emmalee25]

Hiya,
just wanted to support the 'going it alone' post! my dad did it himself when he went from H1B to green card, at first he got himself a lawyer, the lawyer filed for him but 'forgot' my mum and brother, even though he was the one to do the H1B and H4's originally!
The whole thing had to be scrapped and start again, the lawyer still wanted his money!!! My dad did it himself and they are now proud owners of green cards!!!!
I love my visa lawyer and he's been a real help BUT when i saw my case in the 'flesh' before it was submitted, i did think $5.5k for that!!!!!
Lets hope it works!
Emma x

[Bobby]

I have to agree with Bobby.

This time I'm going it alone.
I was a magistrate in the UK. As a bench we were often sceptical of a defendant who "hid behind" a high priced lawyer.(I accept for many a lawyer was the wise choice but for the rest you knew why they were there!) I think they had a harder job as we expected more. The "Regular Joe" - a guy who had done some research, presented his case factually and with some humility often received a more sympathetic ear. This is because we're human - the officials who read and adjudicate your visa case are human too.

This is the psyche I used. So nice to see someone think the same way for a change! lol

I'm surprisingly reading that lawyers have made such glaring mistakes above. Those are just things that you definitely would NOT do yourself. Missing relatives off the petition, filing completely wrong details etc.

It's an interesting subject and I know I trust myself to do the best that I can. I just don't trust someone else to do it, no matter what their credentials, and after throwing them $5000 (and the rest) without recourse.

Bobby

[InnVic]

Of course its easier now that I have copies of the original application forms etc...so why pay all that money to copy over the correct information and pop the supporting documentation in the perfectly tabulated binder :-)

[JulieC]

After a series of errors by the board certified attorney we used, I can honestly say I wish I had done mine myself, I dont think I could have done any worse, put it that way.

[mark]

Good thread

Guess I was a luck chappie, did have an attorney,

Everything went smoothly within 8 months had a green card, but prior to 911

To me attorneys are like GP's, there are some good, some bad, they all have different opinions.

The goal posts, rules and regs' keep changing, cannot decide what I am going to do yet about citizenship, whether to use attorney or not

[Jax]

Hi
I agree with Mark there are some good and some bad attorneys,
I have friends who have tried E2 renewals themselfs and it went badly wrong also had some friends who had no problems its all about what you feel comfortable with and whose desk it lands on!!!!!!!
Jackie

[punky]

I could understand some attorneys out there screwing up. They are human, so subject to human errors.

However, considering they probably do hundreds a year, i'd put my money on the non-attorney screwing up rather than the attorney. Besides, most adults I seem to encounter these days can barely form a readable sentence, let alone a massive petition with supporting evidence.

No reflection on Bobby or anyone who posted here, but I can't help thinking about the old phrase "He who represents himself...".

[Bobby]

No reflection on Bobby or anyone who posted here, but I can't help thinking about the old phrase "He who represents himself...".

.....knows himself best???


Just a thought!

[InnVic]

If there was a complex and obscure point of law that I needed addressed I would no doubt use an attorney. But we're basically talking form filling. I figure if you're savvy (I was going to put intelligent - but coming to the US on an E2 visa may not be considered an intelligent choice!) enough to succesfully run your business then you should have no problem following the fairly clear instructions for revalidation. An attorney is someone who is doing a paid job - he has no personal interest and will not be penalised by the consequences of his action or inaction. As it is my livelehood on the line I'm pretty certain that I will do a much more thorough job of checking my application is in order than any attorney.

[InnVic]

quote Punky <<Besides, most adults I seem to encounter these days can barely form a readable sentence, let alone a massive petition with supporting evidence.>>

Maybe these people shouldn't be operating businesses then!

[Bobby]

Besides, most adults I seem to encounter these days can barely form a readable sentence, let alone a massive petition with supporting evidence.



Not the best choice of words, considering you are addressing a number of people directly that you have encountered these days. ???

I'd probably like some clarification of just who you actually mean by your statement, otherwise I'll take it that you are referring to "most adults you encounter these days" just as you said, which given the content of the thread is far from reality.

I don't see it as a massive petition. It's a 2 page form. If you don't know what the answers are, then you really shouldn't have gone to the airport without some help.

The provision of supporting evidence, of your OWN business and activities should be known inside out by you, more so than any lawyer you've spent an hour or so with in an office setting.

Bobby

[punky]

Not the best choice of words, considering you are addressing a number of people directly that you have encountered these days. ???

I'd probably like some clarification of just who you actually mean by your statement, otherwise I'll take it that you are referring to "most adults you encounter these days" just as you said, which given the content of the thread is far from reality.

I don't see it as a massive petition. It's a 2 page form. If you don't know what the answers are, then you really shouldn't have gone to the airport without some help.

The provision of supporting evidence, of your OWN business and activities should be known inside out by you, more so than any lawyer you've spent an hour or so with in an office setting.

Bobby

Who do I mean? Like I said: most. I get emails every day.... Sometimes ten lines of prowse without one single punctuation mark. Some you have re-read ten or fifteen times to understand it. I don't just come into contact with members on here.

Regarding the two page petition, yes that's true for the forms, (which are guided, which helps), but that's not where it ends. If you want a B visa, then yeah, its two different forms, 30 minutes and its done. For an L-1 you normally need things like business plans and structured reports of your business. I've seen one of Susie's, and the petition part was a 100 or so pages. Yes, a few people can do this - like you have proven - they do. But its not something i'd actively recommend to Joe Public.

On the point where you said that noone knows a business like its owner - true. However, What a business owner might consider to be important, a consular officer might not... That's another big difference between Joe Public and immigration attorneys... not just ability but experience.

[Bobby]

Well so far on the thread, everyone is on the side of "I could have done it myself" or "I wish I'd done it myself"

Don't see too many singing the praises of "$5000 well spent" and the like.

Anyone out there actually know that it made a huge difference to their case that it was submitted by a lawyer? That's what I'm trying to establish here.
Not what's recommended, because obviously if you err on the side of caution, then of course if someone said to you, "hey I'll get you a visa, it's gonna cost you $5k, and I know what I'm doing and YOU probably don't" , then of course you're going to go there.
But, for the savvy immigrant, I still think it's more than feasible that they could put together a petition to get them through the immigration desks with an approval without too much inside knowledge or experience.

Bobby

[Susie]

If there was a complex and obscure point of law that I needed addressed I would no doubt use an attorney. But we're basically talking form filling. I figure if you're savvy (I was going to put intelligent - but coming to the US on an E2 visa may not be considered an intelligent choice!) enough to succesfully run your business then you should have no problem following the fairly clear instructions for revalidation. An attorney is someone who is doing a paid job - he has no personal interest and will not be penalised by the consequences of his action or inaction. As it is my livelehood on the line I'm pretty certain that I will do a much more thorough job of checking my application is in order than any attorney.


Hi,

I am one of those people who have a phobia about form filling, my mind goes a blank, cross out, dyslexic then get extremley cross with myself for not being able to do it

I still classs myself as intelligent though not in form filling out. My husband used to do it for me but now my children will help me or an attorney

[InnVic]

Hi Sue....my point is this....even if you have problems with methodical form filling, can you honestly justify $5000 to pay a "professional" to fill them in for you when we know from experiences on this board they probably have the same success rate (percentage wise) as people going it alone? My accountant did our audit, prepared our tax returns (corporate and personal)and has given us sound tax advice all year and only charged us $850. I just can't see value in VA fees anymore.

[Sharon]

Hi

For my first visa I used and attorney and thank goodness picked a good one. At the same time I had to get due dillegence done by a cpa cost a fortune but I can honestly say if I can afford it I would pay an attorney to refile my renewal

I do agree about the high cost of attornies though. Are the attorney fees standard or regulated in any way?

[Grumpy]

Hi

I tend to go with the attorney option

The main reason is that the rules and reg's and goal posts tend to change to move and would hope an immigration attorney would keep updated on all the leglaslative changes.

Same goes for doing your own tax return or getting accountant to do it. I go with the accountant option. Have to say the look of the forms is enough to put me off from even attempting

Out of interest does anyone file their tax returns themselves or employ an accountant ?

And if you use an accountant are they a CPA or not?

[Bobby]

Different ball game from what we are talking about Grumpy. A good CPA can save you more than it costs you to hire them in the first place. Now this IS a profession where they need to know what's what.
It's possible to file taxes yourself, and of course with the advent of Turbo Tax software, and the like, it's quite common for people to file individual taxes, but for immigrants with businesses, and the tax implications involved, I think you'd be foolish not to use someone who more than pays for themself by the direction that they can steer you in filing your returns.

Try asking your visa attorney to guarantee anything or give you a guaranteed return on your money! Not likely.

[punky]

Well so far on the thread, everyone is on the side of "I could have done it myself" or "I wish I'd done it myself"

Don't see too many singing the praises of "$5000 well spent" and the like.

Anyone out there actually know that it made a huge difference to their case that it was submitted by a lawyer? That's what I'm trying to establish here.
Not what's recommended, because obviously if you err on the side of caution, then of course if someone said to you, "hey I'll get you a visa, it's gonna cost you $5k, and I know what I'm doing and YOU probably don't" , then of course you're going to go there.
But, for the savvy immigrant, I still think it's more than feasible that they could put together a petition to get them through the immigration desks with an approval without too much inside knowledge or experience.

Bobby

You said it yourself... "savvy immigrant". I think some struggle to know end of the pen to use.

If its a flat B visa, i'd probably recommend they do it themselves, as there's very little area to slip up on. If you need to provide a big portfolio of evidence such as a L or E visa, its probably best they have someone with experience do it.

People's intellect, as well as their ability to organise information and produce reports vary. Its hard to gauge their levels of ability over a forum, so i'd just say get an attorney to oversee it, because at least I won't have any come back for giving the person dillusions of grandeur. However, if they hear people have done it successfully, and try to replicate that, and fail, then they only have themselves to blame.

[punky]

Well so far on the thread, everyone is on the side of "I could have done it myself" or "I wish I'd done it myself"

Don't see too many singing the praises of "$5000 well spent" and the like.

Anyone out there actually know that it made a huge difference to their case that it was submitted by a lawyer? That's what I'm trying to establish here.
Not what's recommended, because obviously if you err on the side of caution, then of course if someone said to you, "hey I'll get you a visa, it's gonna cost you $5k, and I know what I'm doing and YOU probably don't" , then of course you're going to go there.
But, for the savvy immigrant, I still think it's more than feasible that they could put together a petition to get them through the immigration desks with an approval without too much inside knowledge or experience.

Bobby

You said it yourself... "Savvy immigrant". Putting it nicely, not everyone is. Through our work here we do see the entire spectrum of would-be immigrants.

If its a flat B visa, i'd probably recommend they do it themselves, as there's very little area to slip up on. If you need to provide a big portfolio of evidence such as a L or E visa, its probably best they have someone with experience do it.

People's intellect, as well as their ability to organise information and produce reports vary. Its hard to gauge their levels of ability over a forum, so i'd just say get an attorney to oversee it, because at least I won't have any come back for giving the person dillusions of grandeur. However, if they hear people have done it successfully, and try to replicate that, and fail, then they only have themselves to blame.

Also, there are quite a few visa attorneys out there that once agreeing to file an application will refund part of all of the fee if its denied. And no, its not a con either.

[Jax]

Hi
The price i have been quoted for my E2 visa by my attorney is $3000 and to me its worth spending as its my first renewal.Maybe next time when i have copys of what was submitted and how it was put i may try myself.
Jackie

[charliesmum]

There isn't a right or wrong way - for those that have done it themselves and been approved, good for you. There's also plenty of people who don't want to risk not getting renewal because they missed something important.

We thought of doing this renewal ourselves, but decided after we found a VA who didn't want to charge us the earth, that we would use them this time and do it ourselves from then on.

Having had to put in 4 lots of paperwork, we are now glad we did use a VA. We would have sent in a basic application at the beginning and would have been horrified when we were denied. The form does say "you are denied" and how many would realise you can keep sending more and more papers in or would they assume they would have to leave. Our VA has given us lots of valuable information and we have passed that on to others on the forums we go on. In that way maybe we're funding the go it alone guy!!!

Zoe

[InnVic]

Some of the horror stories of people filing first E2 applications themselves and getting denied are understandable. If you don't understand the principle and legalities of the E2 process then you are likely to be denied. Also in the intital application unless you have done extensive research you could literally be flogging a dead horse - i.e an application that in no way meets requirements - a lawyer can weed these out (you'd hope!)

I am however, suprised by Punkys comment. yes we all know people who struggle to know which end of a pen to use - but in fairness should these people really be considered suitable entepreneur material? If they are that completely clueless and some 'sharp attorney" can still wangle a way into the US for them then perhaps that accounts for many of the subsequent business failures and denials? Just a thought..

[Bobby]

There isn't a right or wrong way - for those that have done it themselves and been approved, good for you. There's also plenty of people who don't want to risk not getting renewal because they missed something important.

We thought of doing this renewal ourselves, but decided after we found a VA who didn't want to charge us the earth, that we would use them this time and do it ourselves from then on.

Having had to put in 4 lots of paperwork, we are now glad we did use a VA. We would have sent in a basic application at the beginning and would have been horrified when we were denied. The form does say "you are denied" and how many would realise you can keep sending more and more papers in or would they assume they would have to leave. Our VA has given us lots of valuable information and we have passed that on to others on the forums we go on. In that way maybe we're funding the go it alone guy!!!

Zoe

Hi Zoe,

Are you saying that you were initially denied and subsequently sent 4 different lots of paperwork through your attorney before you were approved?

If you are, ..........then isn't that good reason to think that you were put through more than you should have been and that's after paying for the privilege. Surely an attorney should have been able to petition properly in the first place??

Regards,

Bobby

[Sharon]

Quote Zoe

There isn't a right or wrong way - for those that have done it themselves and been approved, good for you. There's also plenty of people who don't want to risk not getting renewal because they missed something important.

Hi Zoe

I agree, there is no right or wrong way. Either way our applications are in the lap of the # Jobs worth # people of this world

It is just so hit and miss if you get a refferal, approval or denial.

What annoys me is we are not allocated # officer number XXX # , cannot send e-mails direct to the person who is handling our case.

Just wonder when we send a reply to a referral, does it go back to the same person or does any officer then pick up the file?

[Emmalee25]

You said it yourself... "savvy immigrant". I think some struggle to know end of the pen to use.

If there are immigrants who dont know which end of the pen to use, then well done to them for making the decision to emmigrate in the first place. As most people have said, the VA's do just seem to be glorified form fillers, especially for the E or B process, I did my own business plan and my VA said it was the best he'd ever seen! Im hoping I get my E2 thru my VA, but i will re-new myself in 2 or 5 years!

Em x

[charliesmum]

Bobby - we have put in 4 lots of paperwork over the last 12 months and are still waiting for approval of our renewal. Yes, there have been times when we have wanted to blame our VA and wondered why we have paid out when maybe we could have done it ourselves. However we do feel that we have been victims of timing. Our VA put in a renewal a few weeks before ours and got it back in less than 3 weeks - we had no reason to think our's would be any different. We could have done the paperwork earlier, but we moved house and got settled and then did it early September. The rules all seemed to change as our papers went in. We were asked to prove certain things, but not given any idea of what to send to do so - our VA and us were both working in the dark. Apparently in May, the Embassy posted an exact list of what they wanted from then on. Then there were long delays and our VA couldn't get a reply from them about our case. We didn't want to annoy the Embassy by making lots of enquiries, that could affect our outcome. Our last papers went in at the end of July - now the wait is 24-26 weeks.

Ridiculous situation, I agree, but we don't feel we could have handled the denials 3 times without our VA telling us we could keep going. Maybe that is why the Embassy like you to do the paperwork yourselves as you may give up and go home if you have a letter saying you are denied.

For us, with our situation, our VA is a great help - we don't feel that anyone else could have done things better.

Zoe

[Bobby]

Hi Zoe,

I know my faith in the VA would not have stretched anywhere near where you are now. I wish you good luck, but it seems that you're in a dark tunnel, you've paid the toll, and nobody is telling you where the road goes from here. That's as murky a situation as there is, concerning VAs. My concern is that these guys get paid, no matter what the outcome, and chances are you've paid them up front, and they are taking care of "new" business now, which puts you at the back of the queue for their time and effort. I'm not saying that ALL attorneys would treat you that way, but it's human nature (and this has been proven long ago that it IS in fact a trait of even the most dedicated ethical workers), that once you've been paid for a job, you lose interest in it very quickly and not as much effort goes into it.
That's not a position I'd like to find myself with my VA (if I had one).

Bobby

[mark]

Hi Bobby

ref your comment

but it's human nature (and this has been proven long ago that it IS in fact a trait of even the most dedicated ethical workers), that once you've been paid for a job, you lose interest in it very quickly and not as much effort goes into it.


I paid my immigration attorney half up front and balance on approval so he had to get job done otherwise he only earned half the money. So if you want an attorney shop around for the one that will work with you

Each attorneys fees seem to vary quite a bit. Some wnt all up front , others will work with client as mine did others can pay in installments.

I bet there must be something in law that prevents any attorney giving any guarntee's

[InnVic]

But can you honestly say you KNOW your attorneys working on your case? Ours was in the process of becoming a partner in the firm (although we didn't know this when we retained him) So somehwere down the line our attorney dumped our file on some clerical girl without telling us. Now she had a whole lot less interst in the job and subsequently left important stuff out. At the end of the day it was his responsibility to check - he didn't - but we still had to suffer the consequences of their incompetence...and pay for it. The visa came through eventually so regardless of whether he/she does a great job - or some shoddy cack handed job - your contractuly obligated to pay. All I'm saying is that if you have a personal interst you're more likely to make sure the i's are dotted and t's crossed!

[Bobby]

Hi Bobby

ref your comment

but it's human nature (and this has been proven long ago that it IS in fact a trait of even the most dedicated ethical workers), that once you've been paid for a job, you lose interest in it very quickly and not as much effort goes into it.


I paid my immigration attorney half up front and balance on approval so he had to get job done otherwise he only earned half the money. So if you want an attorney shop around for the one that will work with you

Each attorneys fees seem to vary quite a bit. Some want all up front , others will work with client as mine did others can pay in installments.

I bet there must be something in law that prevents any attorney giving any guarantee's

You are correct Mark, and obviously this would be the way to go, but from reading this forum and talking to people over the years about the services of an immigration attorney, it's widely accepted that in general they take the money up front.

From what you are saying, it's obviously a good idea to shop around.

No attorney will give you a guarantee, but are you saying Mark that based on how successful you were, they would adjust their fees?
I don't see that they have performed any less a service, just because your case didn't fly at USCIS, so I don't see that the work would be worth any less? Anyone else have an attorney working on different rates, dependent on a successful outcome?

Although I will say, that a lot of people who use an attorney recommended to them, are normally guided by the following sentence:

"he's NOT cheap, but he gets the job done, and we got our visa with him"
(sound familiar?)
This gives people no end of confidence and that's why a lot of people then think that it's widely accepted to pay up front.

Bobby

[Wendy]

We have a different catergory E4 and have had advice from 4 different VA's, two immigration offices and 1 helpline call. Conclusion - nobody had the same story. So didn't spend $5K on someone who didn't know what they were doing and submitted ourselves. Denied! So a 5th VA later and $3.5K I had to tell her what was needed, give her all the stuff, write the responce letter and wait for her do do her magic. what did I get? all my stuff photocopied, my letter on her headed paper and everything bundled into an impressivly thick - 1.5 inches, Kinco bound bundle. It landed on a desk in Nebraska and within 24 hours Approved!! so the sercet for $3.5K - packaging! If only I'd known! Wait this is America everything is about packaging, presentation and the look - of course I knew

[Bobby]

We have a different catergory E4 and have had advice from 4 different VA's, two immigration offices and 1 helpline call. Conclusion - nobody had the same story. So didn't spend $5K on someone who didn't know what they were doing and submitted ourselves. Denied! So a 5th VA later and $3.5K I had to tell her what was needed, give her all the stuff, write the responce letter and wait for her do do her magic. what did I get? all my stuff photocopied, my letter on her headed paper and everything bundled into an impressivly thick - 1.5 inches, Kinco bound bundle. It landed on a desk in Nebraska and within 24 hours Approved!! so the sercet for $3.5K - packaging! If only I'd known! Wait this is America everything is about packaging, presentation and the look - of course I knew

You got away lightly at $3.5k, and of course at the end you have a visa so a good result! You may well have presented it yourself and had the same outcome. You'll never know.

I've heard of people submitting 3" binders and being denied, and others filing 0.5" binders and being approved.
I firmly believe that the resultant decision is ALWAYS based on the contents of the petition and not the presentation.
Of course, I also think that if you have presented it properly then whoever opens the binder is already in a decent mood because it's easy to find the information that they need to see, so it makes sense to present it in this manner.
Like the traffic cop who approaches your vehicle and may or may not have given you a ticket, and you say to him, "I thought you had to be in relatively good physical shape to be a cop?" .
Don't **** off the immigration officer with poor presentation.

Bobby

[charliesmum]

Bobby - the presentation now needs to be exactly as they state on their website or it will be sent back. Our VA sent our last lot in with a different binder than they asked for - she thought they would send us to the bottom of the pile if it looked like everyone elses - and they sent it back. Then it still went to the bottom of the pile as everything is now.

I think the fact that they can go through and literally tick things off their list as they see them helps a lot. If an answer to everything is there, then hopefully you're ok. The problem is when how you do things doesn't fit into their criteria.

This system has only been in place since about May, which is why I reckon we have had problems in the past, as we - or our VA - didn't know everything to send.

We really hope we will be approved this time.

Zoe

[Bobby]

Bobby - the presentation now needs to be exactly as they state on their website or it will be sent back.

This system has only been in place since about May, which is why I reckon we have had problems in the past, as we - or our VA - didn't know everything to send.

Zoe

Thanks Zoe,

But I don't believe that, as I just had my petition approved and I didn't look at the website for guidance, or follow any particular format/template.

Unless of course I just guessed correctly how to submit a 100+ page petition and evidence binder, and got it exactly as they say on the site????

......what do you think the chances of that are???

Regards,

Bobby

[Susie]

Hi Wendy

For the benefit of others can you explain what an E4 visa is?

Thanks

[InnVic]

I find no reference at all to an E4 visa.......is this a typo (E3?)