Minimum employees etc

[victoria]

Hunting around on here trying to scare the living daylights out of myself, I saw a posting about minimum number of employees. Is this a strict rule (if there is any such thing with these applications?) And does anyone know if they would look at the economics (ie one at $200,000 rather than 4 at 50,000?). Also, has anyone you know of come a cropper with the minimum investment?

Thanks as always...

[Emmalee25]

Ive never read that you have to pay them that much on E2 visa...at all,
The prob is that there is differing advice coming in at all angles.
Em x

[Emmalee25]

Hi Victoria,
sorry i had to cut that post short, my son dropped the keyboard on his toes...:rolleyes: (he's ok) What I was going to say was, my friend has just been granted her E2 visa, her and her hubby bought a candy store in OViedo Fl. She has 3 employees, all part time, with her and hubby running the full time bit between them, all the employees are part time and are on minimum wage!
Hope that helps....
Em,
come to think of it.....you are E2 arent you?? not L1.....the rules will be different for L1!!!!!!
xx

[victoria]

thanks Em - glad he's ok . So your friend is an E2? She's running a candy store (how on earth did she tick all her boxes?!) and she only has part time & min wage & she still got an E2? When did she get it -hope they're still as lenient...

[Emmalee25]

Hiya,
My friend got her E2 in July, she waited almost 12months for it to be adjudicated, had paperwork sent back twice but didnt have to attend a 221G. Her Daughter (aged 23) has just bought a business too, another candy store, part time employees etc...she is behind us though in the process.
This is the confusing thing, No details of what they want your minimum investment to be, no set rules for staffing etc, My friends over used their VWP too and her VA said that the embassy would never even know as they dont take much interest in that, she also closed on her biz before the E2 was agreed!!!!
So bloomin' confusing mate!!!!! makes my head spin!
Em x

[victoria]

wow, unbelieveable. We fret over every single day he spends here in case they decide that he's here to work rather than simply visiting his daughter (who has taken to standing at the front door with her ladybird bag all packed saying 'I'm going to see daddy in London' :( ).

I had completely assumed that this was something the embassy would totally look at (in fact at my interview at the embassy I asked about someone travelling to the US with a pending E2 application and gave our circumstances & was told that coming in for a visit more than once a quarter was not advisable..She did say it was largely immigration who have the issue but said that if immigration put something in your file questioning the frequency or purpose of your visits the Embassy can't ignore it).

Good luck for this afternoon!

[Emmalee25]

Hiya Victoria,
But we do only visit once a quarter, just for the whole quarter, thats all....LOL My VA said that even if we were denied entry and sent back by immigration at the airport, it still shouldnt go against us getting the E2! I was also told that by the guy who gave us a hard time at secondary questioning, he said if he turned us away we couldnt get back in without a visa, BUT it shouldnt make it any harder for us to get the appropriate visa.....What does your VA say on this matter?????????
Em x

[victoria]

I can't believe the immigration guy really said that. If I find out that husband could have sat here kicking his heels rather than being stuck in the UK this whole time I will flip.

Our VA is very much of the I know it's hard but best if you stay in the UK - don't give them any reason to fault you if you can avoid it (even though she thinks it's a strong application - but she, like the other recommended VAs that we interviewed - said they would only say 80% chance of getting an E2, never 99% as I've seen here - fear of being sued by the disappointed or just realistic - who knows)

[Emmalee25]

One of the ladies who recommended my VA, has E2 and 4 renewals under her belt, she also stayed in the USA during her application, I think she actually overstayed her VWP aswell (which is naughty and i wouldnt recommend..haha) and there was never a mention of this at her interview....we really need to know the bottom line for this one dont we??? very confusing!
Em x

[victoria]

that's good to know. Had she also closed on her business prior to being issued her E2 & during her overstay of her VWP?

[punky]

Hiya Victoria,
But we do only visit once a quarter, just for the whole quarter, thats all....LOL My VA said that even if we were denied entry and sent back by immigration at the airport, it still shouldnt go against us getting the E2! I was also told that by the guy who gave us a hard time at secondary questioning, he said if he turned us away we couldnt get back in without a visa, BUT it shouldnt make it any harder for us to get the appropriate visa.....What does your VA say on this matter?????????
Em x



Its a difficult one to answer as its a yes/no job. Also it depends on your refusal code. If you get refused under the 214b (failure to show strong ties) its a fairly soft one... It can be removed off your record if you can supply additional evidence which can swing your case around. With regards to your E-2, it wouldn't be your past that really matters, it would just be your situation at the time. E-2s are non-immigrant (non-dual intent) so you must show intent to return, maybe even strong ties... Just like you would with a B visa.

I can't seem to find the refusal code for visa waiver denials... 214b is normally referenced to visa denials (as opposed to visa waiver denials) But I should imagine the visa waiver to be failing to prove non-immigrant status, which could well be covered above... All admissions into the US are presumed immigrant until proven otherwise. The I-94w arrival/departure record could be classed as a visa for this purpose.

[victoria]

our attorney said that a verbal undertaking to return to the UK would be sufficient - in your experience is this not the case? (we don't own a house in the UK, we just rent - in the US & the UK, Sigh).

[punky]

our attorney said that a verbal undertaking to return to the UK would be sufficient - in your experience is this not the case? (we don't own a house in the UK, we just rent - in the US & the UK, Sigh).

In my experience, its varies between officers. Whether you are allowed in or not, regardless of your circumstances, is entirely down to the CBP who are responsible. I hear stories of people being admitted to spend vast amounts of time in the US to abuse the system (over 9 months in a year sometimes), and some being denied for far more weaker cases.

Some may well be happy to accept a verbal agreement to return. If they don't, one of the first pieces of evidence they ask for is a return ticket. Believe it or not, that satistifies a lot of officers in a lot of circumstances. If he isn't convinced after briefly speaking to you (to keep the lines moving), he'll signal secondary questioning for you, where you go backstage into an office where your circumstances are explored in more details. Don't panic... However, from that point, all bets are off unfortunately.

You could have two things to prove really. One is an intent to return to the UK (even with a E-2, or E-2 pending), and the other is proof that he won't be employed illegally during his stay (due to his impending E-2 or not)

For intent to return, strongest ties are normally family, and then after that, financial/employment. Unfortunately they look very favourably on home ownership. As you rent it makes it more difficult to prove strong financial tie.

For proof he won't be employed illegally, it really just comes down to money. He needs to prove he can pay for himself any dependents, etc for his entire trip. Carrying large amounts of cash helps for this purpose (although no more than $10,000, as above this amount causes more problems than it solves as it has to be declared, investigated, etc). Also, lines of credit, such as credit cards, and declarations of support from others. Also, it helps if you can account for his expenses. How much his accomodation would be, care hire, etc, and who would be responsible.

The best thing is to go over-prepared. If you don't need it, then you have only lost a little time. If you do, it could be invaluable. Prepare a well organised, indexed portfolio of every conceivable thing that could be a tie. Statements from your landlord or intention to retain residence would be good, as would statements from family. Include serieses of bank statements, bills etc, that help to build up a picture of continued residency. Also bank statements/credit cards can help build a picture of financial support.

Basically... Don't take anything for granted and always be prepared.

[victoria]

Firstly thanks for taking the time to give me such a long reply. However, sorry, I'm slightly muddled - are you talking about on entry to the US or at his E2 interview. Why would he have a ticket to the US at his E2 interview - he wont even know if he's allowed back in the States?

I'm not worried about him coming in on a VWP - he only comes in for the weekends & so far, fingers crossed, they've been very nice to him. He always has a return ticket for a few days later & they can see from his previous trips that they are short & infrequent (except when he got delayed because of the terroists).

I was more concerned about proving an intention to return to the UK when his E2 expries given that I'm already here (temp visa only) and our only daughter is American.

[Emmalee25]

Hi Victoria,
Well, I spoke with my VA today and we had conference call with another attorney, basically he had asked her to look at my file to see if she could spot any weaknesses that he had overlooked (very valiant of him..i thought) anyway, she said my application looks strong, we have ticked all the boxes, crossed all T's and Dotted all I's so to speak!
But my VA and this other one are very unsettled by the whole E2 process, the other attorney has just had her only current E2 applicants called for 221G after 29weeks of waiting, One has 14 employees, the other 20employees, both businesses cost over 300k and tick every single box and more!!!!
There is definiately something fishy going on with these E2 applications at the moment!
Em x

[Susie]

Hunting around on here trying to scare the living daylights out of myself, I saw a posting about minimum number of employees. Is this a strict rule (if there is any such thing with these applications?) And does anyone know if they would look at the economics (ie one at $200,000 rather than 4 at 50,000?). Also, has anyone you know of come a cropper with the minimum investment?

Thanks as always...

Hi Victoria,

The problem is that there are no hard and fast rules about # you must invest a substantial sum # no mention of what they consider this to be

You must employ xx number of persons, #they do not say how many #

So you never quite know what they really want. One thing the USCIS and consulate like to see is a lot of movement in the bank account . Lots of transactions.

Just so you know you do not have to employ merely USC, you can employ anyone who is legal to work such as LPR , Dependant of E visa holder, dependant of L visa holder, (all must have INS work autho )

[Ron]

Hi

Yes Sue 100% correct, the problem is the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing or should be doing.

There is definatley bad feeling between the American London embassy and the Texas service centre, neither like each other or want to support each other and do their damed best to give each other grief

At the end of the day what is perfectly fine and dandy with one officer this may mean the exact opposite to another officer. It is about time hard and fast rules where displayed so every one knows whats acceptable and whats not

[punky]

Firstly thanks for taking the time to give me such a long reply. However, sorry, I'm slightly muddled - are you talking about on entry to the US or at his E2 interview. Why would he have a ticket to the US at his E2 interview - he wont even know if he's allowed back in the States?

I'm not worried about him coming in on a VWP - he only comes in for the weekends & so far, fingers crossed, they've been very nice to him. He always has a return ticket for a few days later & they can see from his previous trips that they are short & infrequent (except when he got delayed because of the terroists).

I was more concerned about proving an intention to return to the UK when his E2 expries given that I'm already here (temp visa only) and our only daughter is American.

I meant admission to the US under the VWP program which is what I thought you was worried about (and him being denied affecting his E-2 application).

They do look at previous dates of entry but it doesn't really come in to your application... I don't think they are even allowed to. They just like to have a record of it. If his trips are short and infrequent as you say then it should help to prove he isn't working illegally.

[victoria]

Thanks punky. Gosh - he normally just arrives with his passport, enough $ for a cab & a case full of stuff from Boots & Sainsburys! (Do you know what has been sufficient re intent to return at the end of your E2?)

Emma, nice to hear that another Attorney thought your case looked good, not so good to hear that there's a concern with E2s in general. Did they comment as to whether there was a common theme with the underlying business - ie was it something that didn't necessarily involve a particular skill? Obviously successfully running a business in itself is a skill but just from what I've read I wonder how long they will allow people to run/buy companies where they have no previous experience in doing so.

[punky]

Thanks punky. Gosh - he normally just arrives with his passport, enough $ for a cab & a case full of stuff from Boots & Sainsburys! (Do you know what has been sufficient re intent to return at the end of your E2?)

NP :)

Well like I said... CBP officers vary so what one person might think is sufficient might not be to someone else. If the officer has no reason to suspect your husband (and he shouldn't if he's not spending long periods of time out there), then all should be fine... You wouldn't need evidence. That's only if you know your case to be weak and expecting to be stopped. Intent to return normally covers maintaining a residence, assets and bank accounts. Unless the CBP have grounds to suspect your husband then it shouldn't need to get that far. So far they haven't... so unless anything changes drastically then I don't think it should ever be a problem.

Another perspective... I saw online somewhere that someone who arrived on a sunday, was paroled into the country for 24 hours while his verbally-issued story checked out. When it did he was admitted into the company officially. So it appears sometimes its not the end of the world if you don't have a piece of evidence with you. No idea whether its true or not (you get allsorts on forums) but sounds fairly plausible.

[victoria]

Actually our attorney told us that that was the most likely scenario (The 24 hr parole) as opposed to being booted out immediately. Clearly we dont want to get to that level as that will I assume be a bit of a black mark in the visa application. As I said no problems so far but it doesn't stop me fearing the worst & having a heart attack each time he comes through immigration just in case the officer interviewing him is having a really bad day....

[Emmalee25]

Victoria,
where are you staying at the mo'. are you in Florida??????? we should meet up for a coffee and share our heart attacks together...nothing like pain in company i say!
Em x
P.s how old is your daughter?
Em x

[victoria]

Hi Emma,

That would have been lovely but I'm afriad that I'm in New York not sunny Florida. Actually, it's lovely & warm today but it's been a miserable summer - & winter (if we're still here!) will be foul & I get to suffer the endless jokes about how coming from England I must be used to this...(Actually no, we don't tend to have 6 ft snow storms from December to April...)

My daughter is 2 so I'm sure would have loved to have met your son (I read about his heart condition - poor little thing, so pleased he's doing better in the warm). She's starting to pick up a 'twang' - eek, inevitable I suppose - what about your son?

Husband just called from London. His first words were 29 weeks & 3 days. Sigh.......

Victoria

[victoria]

btw Emma, meant to ask - when is your current VWP up - and what on earth is your game plan if you haven't heard before that date?

[InnVic]

You must employ xx number of persons, #they do not say how many #

)[/QUOTE]

Actually thats not strictly true.. There is NO specification to employ American citizens. All you have to prove is that " the business has the present of future capacity to make a significant economic contribution" and that the income is "more than needed to support self and family."

You can intepret this in a number of ways. We submitted a seven year business plan with onely ONE part time housekeeper (projected wages $3000 pa) However as our business is in tourism an increase in in our occupancy brings more visitors to the area who spend money in other local businesses contributing to the economy! We managed to get data from the local tourism office that gives researched data on how much the average visitor spends and with our increased business this equates to almost $500,000 extra spent locally. Now......this is the theory - this is what we wer told at application and this is what application was approved on. Our renewal is next march so I hope it still stands or we are screwed!:eek:

[victoria]

Very interesting. I hope they haven't changed their stance either!

$500k to the area is hugely impressive. No wonder your congressmen & senators rolled out the red carpet for you!

[Emmalee25]

Ah! thats what i remember being told aswell, at first, that you had to show a capacity to employ but didnt have to employ, But then i was told to strengthen the application you should employ etc etc etc :eek: I am sure you wont be screwed Innvic, Ive seen your website and the Inn Victoria is absolutely fab! my parents are thinking of paying you a visit actually, we used to live in a huge 5 bed victorian house in the UK, my mum loves all things Victorian!

Victoria, I forgot you were in Ny! sorry! I lived near pearl River for a while! Our current VWP is up in November! if we dont get our 221G before then, we go to plan B, go back to UK, say Hi, have an early chrimbo dinner and then get the hell back out of there, Xmas is the busiest time of year so i cant NOT be here! My VA speaks with immigration at the airports on a montjly basis and is going to test the water on my 4th VWP in 12months......GULP!
Em x

[victoria]

Gulp indeed. Do they ever give him any comfort? The only visa attorneys I've ever spoken to re immigration are all gloom & doom & assume you'll be banned from the US for life but fortunately I've yet to meet one in person.

Have you literally been in & out or have you have stayed in the UK for a month or so in between VWPs?

Husband coming back in 2 weeks (having just been over for 3 day weekend for daughters birthday) - shortest time between visits to date & feeling slightly anxious but needs to as we have plethora of preschool interviews for daughter for next year & they wont interview me by myself (how ridiculous can you get - only in NY)

[Emmalee25]

Hiya,
we went back for 16days after our first VWP ran out and then we were back 5 weeks last time but only because the embassy kept saying 1more week, 1 more week...etc!
Anyway, I have just spoken to my VA (again) and he has receieved another email from the embassy, he hasnt sent me a copy yet or id just paste that, anyway they said that they are calling most people for a 221G now as back log is so high, it does not mean we will be denied, it just gives us a chance to submit more up to date information as everything has 'timed out' due to the delays and back log. Apparently we will be notified when there is an appointment available and told to prepare.
So.......we wait!
Em x

[Emmalee25]

Gulp indeed. Do they ever give him any comfort? The only visa attorneys I've ever spoken to re immigration are all gloom & doom & assume you'll be banned from the US for life but fortunately I've yet to meet one in person.

ooops forgot to reply to the above......apparently they said to him (he spoke with them this AM) that i can take all the print out emails and a letter from him with regards to E2 delays and it not being our fault, and I can produce them at the airport! But, TBH i would prefer to be 'On Holiday' I will only raise the paperwork if pressed.
Em x

[victoria]

Most people - really? Oh god. Wonder if they're going to give you your interview date anytime soon. As you say, look on the positive, chance to show them your business is doing really well & meeting your original business plan. Our's is too - I just fear they'll say well it's lasted this long without you with a bunch of Americans running it so why should we let you in to take the profits...!

[Emmalee25]

Ah!
But it hasnt, we have been there to oversee the bunch of americans running the business havent we???? we have been planning the future of the business etc, hence my excessive trips back and forth.......Its the answers that count on the day i think!
Em x

[InnVic]

Very interesting. I hope they haven't changed their stance either!

$500k to the area is hugely impressive. No wonder your congressmen & senators rolled out the red carpet for you!

Didn't actually get any red carpets rolled out... but we have asked a couple who have indicated they will do something to support our renewal. One guy we spoke to did say that he didn't want to be seen exherting pressure as it was likely to p**s off the guys in London. This person has a vacation home in our town - so I've asked him not to prepare the letter in an "official" capacity - but as an "interested resident" who will benefit from increased services (new restaurants more prosperous shops etc..) due to an upturn in tourism...and of course if his name is on the letter it won't do any harm :-)

[mark]

Hi Inn Vic

Just wondered if he was an ex president of the USA and caught red handed ? or some other high ranking person or am I completely wrong

Please do tell, or give us a clue who it is

Sometimes it is not what you know but who you know that helps

[InnVic]

Nope....can't say/won't say.
..but its not Clinton :-)