Does E2 Visa really destroys lives ???? Or "do you have a positive story"

[v2002]

A friend of mine read this today & made me to ponder upon this "Be warned! E2 Visa destroys lives " since than I am debating my self on this
statement.May be for few it does but as a general statement it looks too harsh for me to beleive that it does distroy lives, as I have seen many happy E2 ers on this forum.
I think we must debate on this....need your imputs!!!!
Cheers

[Carl]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: A friend of mine read this today & made me to ponder upon this "Be warned! E2 Visa destroys lives " since than I am debating my self on this
statement.May be for few it does but as a general statement it looks too harsh for me to beleive that it does distroy lives, as I have seen many happy E2 ers on this forum.
I think we must debate on this....need your imputs!!!!
Cheers

[Carl]

You are absolutely right V2002, its not all doom & Gloom on a E2, I know of many many E2 ers that have been here for years and have no problems renewing.

[peter gold]

Of the many I know they have all been renewed many led to green cards and I have no one complaing
However I accept it goes wrong for some and those are the ones we must help and make sure others do not fall into the same traps
That is why I am on here

[SHEILA 13]

Exactly ,there are thousands and thousands of Expats living happily here

[Callie]

Not so sure it destroys lives, can certainly disrupt them though. We can all look back and say if we knew then what we know now... however life is an adventure and sure we have to go down roads we didn't expect to be forced down but isn't that what makes us as a person? This is our 5th Christmas here on an E2 and it is valid until 2012.
I did our renewal myself and I personally think if you take the time to read the FAM guidelines as you prepare each tab that are required you can honestly get that gut feeling of what things you are going to be asked at the Embassy. I am not being big headed or cock sure of myself but if I couldn't have got the proof they required about marginality & staff requirements (it asked for copies of W2's) then I probably would have made a different decision hence the different roads to go down. I also believe that if you do something yourself then you would know the application/renewal inside out and couldn't possibly be 'caught out' by Embassy questions. The application/renewal is on the Embassy website to download and by following step by step instructions it is pretty foolproof.

[Carl]

Not so sure it destroys lives, can certainly disrupt them though. We can all look back and say if we knew then what we know now... however life is an adventure and sure we have to go down roads we didn't expect to be forced down but isn't that what makes us as a person? This is our 5th Christmas here on an E2 and it is valid until 2012.
I did our renewal myself and I personally think if you take the time to read the FAM guidelines as you prepare each tab that are required you can honestly get that gut feeling of what things you are going to be asked at the Embassy. I am not being big headed or cock sure of myself but if I couldn't have got the proof they required about marginality & staff requirements (it asked for copies of W2's) then I probably would have made a different decision hence the different roads to go down. I also believe that if you do something yourself then you would know the application/renewal inside out and couldn't possibly be 'caught out' by Embassy questions. The application/renewal is on the Embassy website to download and by following step by step instructions it is pretty foolproof.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Its great to read some positive stuff on E2s instaed of the usuall!

[peter gold]

Callie
You have said what I have been saying ever since I joined this forum
THANKYOU

[Callie]

Thanks Guys, also I truly believe in the KISS method, do not offer more than is requested, easier to build on than it is to retract

[v2002]

I think what it boils down to is to use few tips from other E2 visa applicants and see if it works to your advantage for getting renewal when you present your case to the Visa Officer.
I will appreciate if those who have E2 renewals successfully granted by the Visa Officer, can list down what they had in their application- that they think helped them in getting the renewal. This will create a guideline for those who are getting ready to present their application for next renewals and also those who are working towards putting things together for renewals in very near future.

[v2002]

List- I think following may be helpful in approval.
1.Index your binder
2.Highlight all good points in your business.
3.Solid clear and precise Business Plan.
4.Explain Your role in business.
5.Do highlight Profit.
6.Few W2 on your file (one or two)
7.Know your business in & out.
8.Be prepared to answer all Q related to your business.

(I am not an E2 visa holder please feel free to add to list )

[Callie]

To be honest the list is already there in the FAM guidelines it is on the Embassy website or here for you:
http://www.foia.state.gov/masterdocs/09fam/0941051N.pdf

[v2002]

That is very true Callie, but unfortunately FAM does stay silent on certain points and those become really important for few consulates when it comes to getting renewal... that is the reason we started this thread so that everyone gets an opportunity to learn from each others experience that is not n the FAM guidelines.
To be honest the list is already there in the FAM guidelines it is on the Embassy website or here for you:
http://www.foia.state.gov/masterdocs/09fam/0941051N.pdf

[v2002]

I think E2 works well for few people who are young with little kid's and one of the partner is capable to get other job.
In such cases E2 visa is a blessing as the spouse can work with EAD card and get a chance to change status from non immigrant to immigrant visa vai perm.As kids are young parents have plenty of time to work at this option. Which may not be an option for them if they were not here on E2 Visa.

[v2002]

Oh Kirzi dear from that point of view yes you are on topic .... But than its a blunt reality that E2 Does explain- that kids can only stay till the age of 21. There is nothing hidden in that. What we are trying to put on this thread is all positive points that a E2 visa holder can benefit from .. we already have the other thread for negative side of E2 visa. LOL :D
It is on topic...E2 kids and their future is the biggest problem many people face...just my 2 cents mind you....:)

[peter gold]

I agree with you V2002

[v2002]

Thank you Peter Gold,
Peter do you mind adding/listing some of the points from your experience on this thread "again" that you think helps in successful approval please?:tu:
I agree with you V2002

[peter gold]

No tricks here just follow the Fam Manual for the Consul where you are filing and remember to establish that you have achived the business plan as laid out in the initial application, and if not why and how you will do that when you get your renewal

[InnVic]

No tricks here just follow the Fam Manual for the Consul where you are filing and remember to establish that you have achived the business plan as laid out in the initial application, and if not why and how you will do that when you get your renewal

Oh but that doesn't always work though does it......;)

[v2002]

No not always InnVic and you are very right on that one , that is the reason we have this thread to bring attention to some more unspecified expectations of the visa officers that are not clearly stipulated in FAM.:hug:
Oh but that doesn't always work though does it......;)

[v2002]

I have recently known a very happy E2 er ( I do not have his/her permission to disclose name) who came here ON E2 where busines is run by wife and he is now working towards getting a E5 visa. It may take him some time to do so but he will eventually succeed because he has all the time he needs to work towards what he planned for long before he decided to take his opening shot as E2.
Bottom line E2 is not as bad as it is projected to be only you must understand the boundaries and limitations well before you decide to take that ride on E2 Roller-coaster.

[Susie]

I have recently known a very happy E2 er ( I do not have his/her permission to disclose name) who came here ON E2 where busines is run by wife and he is now working towards getting a E5 visa. It may take him some time to do so but he will eventually succeed because he has all the time he needs to work towards what he planned for long before he decided to take his opening shot as E2.
Bottom line E2 is not as bad as it is projected to be only you must understand the boundaries and limitations well before you decide to take that ride on E2 Roller-coaster.

I agree, but many times, potential immigrants are badly advised or mislead and one of the reasons expatsvoice is trying to educate people

There are many biz brokers who push for people to close on a biz without getting the visa first, their excuse is, the selling will not wait or hold the company till you eventually get a visa.

The biz brokers (not all) but many advise the client to go the B to E route, which will all know could lead to being denied a visa through misrepresentation of the B application whilst others are landlocked

[v2002]

Very good point susie - that add to our list-
-Research
-Read ask questions
-Be very aware of fraud & Scams
-Chose your attorney very carefully
-Make sure you have all your homework done before you jump on E2 boat.

I agree, but many times, potential immigrants are badly advised or mislead and one of the reasons expatsvoice is trying to educate people

There are many biz brokers who push for people to close on a biz without getting the visa first, their excuse is, the selling will not wait or hold the company till you eventually get a visa.

The biz brokers (not all) but many advise the client to go the B to E route, which will all know could lead to being denied a visa through misrepresentation of the B application whilst others are landlocked

[bobinalbuquerque]

The E2 is a brilliant mechanism for people to achieve their twin goals of owning their business and experiencing the American lifestyle.Either one of those goals or indeed both may ultimately not be as satisfying as what one hoped for and therefore will inevitably for some stimulate change in a new direction. Yet the E2 itself does provide a relatively straight forward path to fully experience what is for most a dream.
The limitations are well catalogued,it really is difficult to imagine that anyone with serious intent will not quickly realise that it does not have LPR potential and should children be in the picture a realisation that 21 years of age will present new challenges.
My personal perspective with 15 years of E2 status,IT ENRICHES LIVES,to live where you want,and to work where you want is for most in this world far from automatic.Even with a 17 year old son and the uncertainty that lies ahead I still marvel at the experiences he has been able to involve himself with in this "foreign land".That he will have to overcome additional obstacles is unfair, but an American degree is for most coveted worldwide.If the U.S. cannot embrace talented E2 kids fear not for other countries will be very welcoming of their qualities.
Ruins lives,I do not think so.Room for improvement? Absolutely. A pathway to LPR and then citizenship,a U.S. based renewal process,employment opportunity for the kids in their formative years and greater educational/work considerations at the aging out stage.
Although the presidential challengers and their parties do not want immigration to be a main burner item the great American people do, this really gives all E2 holders a great opportunity to champion the cause of E2 reform and bring more fairness to what is in all honesty a most brilliant type of visa!

[Susie]

Whilst there have been some very bad situations with regards to the E visa. This on the whole does mainly appear to be from people who did not fully comprehend or were mislead about this type of visa. I do know of many people that are very happy with the E visa, who know the rules and regulations and limitations

Thanks Bob for your post, telling like it is from your perspective

[Susie]

Copying my post from another thread.




The way I see it, imho, is the E visa does serve the purpose for which intended. A non immigrant visa which allows the holder to live and work in the USA whilst they are taking an active involvement in the running of the biz.

It does seem that problems tend to surface once families arrive and become settled in the USA, then the realization tends to set in that they are always "On probation" for want of a better phrase.

many problems can occur, some families members may have settled when the others may be desperately homesick and feel that it is these unknown factors that tend to pull families apart or there could be a recession and biz suffer or other issues, such as being landlocked can come into play


What really concerns me is the children of E holders, is that they do not have a pathway to a green card whereas children on others visa's do have. It is possible as we know that these E children can (if clever enough or parents rich enough) obtain a student visa, but for many families this will not be an option for one reason or the other

[Carl]

:clap: :clap: :clap: The E2 is a brilliant mechanism for people to achieve their twin goals of owning their business and experiencing the American lifestyle.Either one of those goals or indeed both may ultimately not be as satisfying as what one hoped for and therefore will inevitably for some stimulate change in a new direction. Yet the E2 itself does provide a relatively straight forward path to fully experience what is for most a dream.
The limitations are well catalogued,it really is difficult to imagine that anyone with serious intent will not quickly realise that it does not have LPR potential and should children be in the picture a realisation that 21 years of age will present new challenges.
My personal perspective with 15 years of E2 status,IT ENRICHES LIVES,to live where you want,and to work where you want is for most in this world far from automatic.Even with a 17 year old son and the uncertainty that lies ahead I still marvel at the experiences he has been able to involve himself with in this "foreign land".That he will have to overcome additional obstacles is unfair, but an American degree is for most coveted worldwide.If the U.S. cannot embrace talented E2 kids fear not for other countries will be very welcoming of their qualities.
Ruins lives,I do not think so.Room for improvement? Absolutely. A pathway to LPR and then citizenship,a U.S. based renewal process,employment opportunity for the kids in their formative years and greater educational/work considerations at the aging out stage.
Although the presidential challengers and their parties do not want immigration to be a main burner item the great American people do, this really gives all E2 holders a great opportunity to champion the cause of E2 reform and bring more fairness to what is in all honesty a most brilliant type of visa!


Exactly!

[Peter Dexter]

I think E2 works well for few people who are young with little kid's and one of the partner is capable to get other job.
In such cases E2 visa is a blessing as the spouse can work with EAD card and get a chance to change status from non immigrant to immigrant visa vai perm.As kids are young parents have plenty of time to work at this option. Which may not be an option for them if they were not here on E2 Visa.

Or if you do not have kids, have the children in the USA, they are Citizens, when they are 21 they can sponser you for a green card.

[kirtida8]

Great thread V2002, and some very good replies too.

[tracifrost]

so for those of us, that need our hands held here. Mainly me:D
Does a Consular officer, at embassy have to use the FAM GUIDELINES
ALL THE TIME, when making a decision. (for E2 visa)

What happens if a consular officer does not use the guidelines?
OR are they just that guidelines?

[Callie]

The following is from the front page of the guidelines for the consular officers to establish that E1/2 applicants are eligible for the said visa. Being a bit more au fait now having gone through a successful renewal, at the next renewal I would certainly have the confidence to challange anything outside of the then current guidelines.


9 FAM 41.51 N1.2 Requirements for E-2 Treaty
Investor
(TL:VISA-326; 10-15-2001)
In evaluating E-2 applications, consular officers must determine whether
the:
(1) Requisite treaty exists;
(2) Individual and/or business possess the nationality of the treaty
country;
(3) Applicant has invested or is actively in the process of investing;
(4) Enterprise is a real and operating commercial enterprise;
(5) Applicant's investment is substantial;
(6) Investment is more than a marginal one solely for earning a living;
(7) Applicant is in a position to "develop and direct" the enterprise;
(8) Applicant, if an employee, is destined to an executive/supervisory
position or possesses skills essential to the firm's operations in the
United States; and
(9) Applicant intends to depart the United States when the E-2 status
terminates.

[InnVic]

Since it was me that started it I feel that I should now confess that I now believe that E2 Visa per se does NOT destroy lives (understandably I was a tad emotional when I first posted) We wanted to run a Bed and Breakfast - we did not consider any other businesses. We spoke to very reputable visa attornies (one in UK who has since retired and one in the US) Both said that our plan should qualify for visa. We also knew several couples with similar businesses (no employees) who had successfully been granted E2's. We read the guidleines and books on E2 - sadly we hadn't found this forum (although we probably wouldn't have changed a thing). I had read a few articles that said they "like to see employees" but was told that this shouldn't be a problem as we provided economic benefit in other ways. The problem with this visa is it is vague. If you are told that you qualify with X criteria, you are given a visa based on that criteria then you do not expect to have problems when you come to renew. It is now obvious that they want to see W2's. I can't justify this ...and to be frank don't want employees. And while we'd have liked to stay around to finish our "project" I now look at this as an opportunity. We've proved that we can do this well, and now know exactly what we want from our next project. All the Embassy decision has done is push us to our next adventure a little earlier than we otherwise would have done. Everything happens for a reason and so when we own the next Hilton type empire I can say "I wouldn't have done it without Glen!"

[Callie]

And when he calls to book a room you can say "hold the line a moment Sir....no sorry we are full no more room at the inn" :D :D :D

[InnVic]

And when he calls to book a room you can say "hold the line a moment Sir....no sorry we are full no more room at the inn" :D :D :D

....no I'd sell him a room...can't promise that the breakfast wouldn't be "contaminated" though ;)

[v2002]

ha ha ha ha :hug: Serve him breakfast "contaminated "with " mad cow D":o
....no I'd sell him a room...can't promise that the breakfast wouldn't be "contaminated" though ;)

* InnVic This is what I meant:hug:

[InnVic]

ha ha ha ha :hug: May be with " mad cow D":o

.....are you calling me a mad cow :rofl:

[v2002]

.....are you calling me a mad cow :rofl:
No wayyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Susie]

so for those of us, that need our hands held here. Mainly me:D
Does a Consular officer, at embassy have to use the FAM GUIDELINES
ALL THE TIME, when making a decision. (for E2 visa)

What happens if a consular officer does not use the guidelines?
OR are they just that guidelines?


My attorney now copies the Fam rules and ask that his client presents them to the officer if they are not interpreted as they should be. He also preps his clients for the interview itself and gives them a CD for review before the interview. I know it is impossible to know exactly what the questions will be but some are re occurring

Some tips but if others can add to the list, that would be great.

1. Only answer the question as asked, do not elaborate

2. If you do not understand the question, then say so, they should explain in a way so you do understand

3. If you do not know the answer, then say so.

4. Go to the Consulate dressed the part as a businessman/woman would eg, suited and booted

[Susie]

Please folks, can we stay on topic, thanks

[Susie]

Since it was me that started it I feel that I should now confess that I now believe that E2 Visa per se does NOT destroy lives (understandably I was a tad emotional when I first posted) We wanted to run a Bed and Breakfast - we did not consider any other businesses. We spoke to very reputable visa attornies (one in UK who has since retired and one in the US) Both said that our plan should qualify for visa. We also knew several couples with similar businesses (no employees) who had successfully been granted E2's. We read the guidleines and books on E2 - sadly we hadn't found this forum (although we probably wouldn't have changed a thing). I had read a few articles that said they "like to see employees" but was told that this shouldn't be a problem as we provided economic benefit in other ways. The problem with this visa is it is vague. If you are told that you qualify with X criteria, you are given a visa based on that criteria then you do not expect to have problems when you come to renew. It is now obvious that they want to see W2's. I can't justify this ...and to be frank don't want employees. And while we'd have liked to stay around to finish our "project" I now look at this as an opportunity. We've proved that we can do this well, and now know exactly what we want from our next project. All the Embassy decision has done is push us to our next adventure a little earlier than we otherwise would have done. Everything happens for a reason and so when we own the next Hilton type empire I can say "I wouldn't have done it without Glen!"

Thanks for your post Inn Vic.


Would like to comment on your sentence :-

It is now obvious that they want to see W2's.

Well according to my attorney, you can employ staff on 1099's, W2"s or a combination of both.

Now that said, I am still confused over the issue of employing staff and how
E 2 people employ them to comply :confused: :confused:

I mentioned in another thread that our carpet contractor recently got a 5 year renwal in London and He only employs staff on 1099's There is another member of our site (sorry cannot name them) that has a renewal for his L 1 and he does not employ any W 2 staff either :confused: :confused: So whats good for the goose, etc.,

[Susie]

Been thinking,

If an E 2 person, invests the half a million dollars (or more) over a period of years, say 5 years , I am wondering if it would be a good idea to draft some legislation to try and get an amendment so that the E 2 could convert to EB5 type visa. This could work with or stand alone from the Heather Wilson Bill. Does anyone think this may be a good idea or not? Well to at least try in theory

[Carl]

Thanks for your post Inn Vic.


Would like to comment on your sentence :-

It is now obvious that they want to see W2's.

Well according to my attorney, you can employ staff on 1099's, W2"s or a combination of both.

Now that said, I am still confused over the issue of employing staff and how
E 2 people employ them to comply :confused: :confused:

I mentioned in another thread that our carpet contractor recently got a 5 year renwal in London and He only employs staff on 1099's There is another member of our site (sorry cannot name them) that has a renewal for his L 1 and he does not employ any W 2 staff either :confused: :confused: So whats good for the goose, etc.,

I don t think you can really put the E2 and the L1 side by side, they are tottaly diferent. We have all had the "my atourney" but he/ she is not the one left out in the cold. I would say play it safe, employ, thats what they really want to see. At the Embassy there are a section of people who process the B & L visas and diferent people who process the E visas, I foud that out from a friend who went for a E was declined and asked if he could apply for a B and he was told that is done by the section that does the B & L visas, so I would imagine that they work from a diferent set of in house rules. As for a L1 not having W2s, that goes totally against what the L1 says, although when you go for the I-140 for the EB-1 Green card, it does say that you only have to employ what is needed, so if a pool guy does not need to employ someone, he doesnt have to and it is not grounds for refusal, that being said, I wouldnt want to try it. I think I am going of topic here now so I will shut up.

[tracifrost]

Carl, im going to get the link and paste it somehow.
But even on L1 it states that, you do not have to employ in your first year of operating under L1.
Once again, I will look for this link and paste it on.
it also does state that unrealistic expections, should not be considered or something, ie grounds for a renewal.

[Carl]

Carl, im going to get the link and paste it somehow.
But even on L1 it states that, you do not have to employ in your first year of operating under L1.
Once again, I will look for this link and paste it on.
it also does state that unrealistic expections, should not be considered or something, ie grounds for a renewal.

The beneficiary is only alowed to do the duties of a subordinate for a period of 6 months, also the business must be able to support a manager ( American ) before 1 year, if thats not employment then what is? Bearing in mind that a L1-a new start only gets one year. So when you put in for your renewal, guess what no employment no Visa renewal. Why would a multi national company Not employ Locals?

[Carl]

Anyway, this is off topic, all I know is that I employed and now have a Greencard, despite having a property management company, so maybe its not the business but the way you structure your business as it has been said that they do not give visas & Green cards for Property management companies, and yet here we are, and we did it all without a lawyer, mmmm?

[kebab king]

Hi All

I have renewed my L1 visa twice now without any problems even though I no staff on W2 or 1099s or commerical premises.

And yes I did return to get the visas in my passport.

Regards
Andy

[Carl]

Hi All

I have renewed my L1 visa twice now without any problems even though I no staff on W2 or 1099s or commerical premises.

And yes I did return to get the visas in my passport.

Regards
Andy

Are you here as a L1-A Manager or Executive? Do you go through London? Do you now only have 1 renewal left to make teh 7 years? I cant see how you can be a Manger of no one, or an executive with no one working for you, it doesnt make any sense, unless there is more information you have not posted.

[anniefromessex]

Hi Kebab King,

Good for you!!! I always love a happy ending but tbh when you are turned down for renewal or even the initial approval, it does beggar belief that the afficianado at the other end sees things in a different light, ie surely FAM rules and regs should apply to all!!! It makes no sense at all that some say you can use contractors and don't have to actually employ, whilst others say you should employ and not use contractors - at the end of the day you are still using Americans which is the whole idea anyway. Even though Doug Hall has/had his faults he always told us that you are even giving the guys in Home Depot or wherever work (in our case) because without the likes of us they would not have a job - horses for courses really. I for one cannot for the life of me understand why in a business such as ours (home maintenance) that you would have to actually employ someone to stand around if business is a bit quiet - it is definitely not good business sense unless they want to see you fail!!! Oh, just answered my own question!

Anyway, well done and I hope you get many more renewals - why not go for your Green Card now to eliminate the hassle - sorry none of my business really.

Love Anniexxx

[kebab king]

Hi Carl

I am here as a Manager. Yes I did go through London and attended the Embassy on every renewal. And yes I do only have one renewal left, and thats the downside of an L1 if you do not want a Green Card.(congrats to you and Dee on your Green Cards).

Regards
Andy

[kebab king]

Hi Annie

A Green Card does not suit me at present.

Regards
Andy
xx

[anniefromessex]

Hi Andy,

Thanks for your reply, I know not everybody wants one - everybody's circumstances are different so whatever you do I think the answer is to just enjoy your life as it is at the moment and see it as an experience, which believe me I am trying to at the moment ha ha!

Merry Christmas.
Love Anniexxx

[kebab king]

Annie after my 2007 everythings gonna be good.

Have a good un.

Andy
xxxxx

[Carl]

Hi Carl

I am here as a Manager. Yes I did go through London and attended the Embassy on every renewal. And yes I do only have one renewal left, and thats the downside of an L1 if you do not want a Green Card.(congrats to you and Dee on your Green Cards).

Regards
Andy

From what I make of it, the criteria of the EB-1 on employment is less tight than the L1-a so if you have had no problems with the L visa, a green card should be a breeze for you. You dont have to employ people on a salary, I employed them on a as needed basis so no need to pay them when they are not needed.

[kebab king]

If I ever apply for a Green Card I will let you know if it was a breeze or not.

Andy

[Carl]

If I ever apply for a Green Card I will let you know if it was a breeze or not.

Andy

OK Good luck!

[lorraine]

Andy where is my whisky lolxxxx

[kebab king]

I drank it but am bringing a few bottles back with me next month and will call you.

Andy(hic)

[DEE F]

If I ever apply for a Green Card I will let you know if it was a breeze or not.

AndyGood luck from me as well Andy,and hope you have a great Christmas and New Year,have fun:hug:

Dee xxxxx

[Jax]

HI
We where also upset when we posted about our renewal experience and now i look back and think it was the push i needed to try something else so prehaps these thinks happen for a reason. My point was that not everyone was treated the same and when they could not say you don,t employ they said your business is marginal. Jax

[InnVic]

HI
We where also upset when we posted about our renewal experience and now i look back and think it was the push i needed to try something else so prehaps these thinks happen for a reason. My point was that not everyone was treated the same and when they could not say you don,t employ they said your business is marginal. Jax

Great to hear that your a "glass half full" gal too! ..and this time next years we could be millionaires...(where have I heard that before! ;) )