There's 12 million illegals - how many legal E2's then ?

[floridapete]

See:

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20060307143909990006&ncid=NWS00010000000001

[Susie]

Hi Peter

Thanks for posting this article.

As you know the illegals are being treated better than honest hard working legals.

The 245i life act rewards overstays etc., anyone who was in the US opn 20th Dec 2000 could pay a fine and adjust status to that of LPR

One of the items we need to raise awareness is to allow E visa holders to be able to adjust status to LPR (Earned LPR subject to good moral character etc., and running a sucessful business for say 5 years) Also any child of E visa holder should be able to adjust status provided they are of good standing and adjustment is in process before their 21 st birthday

[Sharon]

Hi

This is what makes me so unsettled in the USA.

I am not afraid of hard work, or investing a substainal sum in the USA but I do feel like a second class citizen

We do not get any homestead reduction nor can we get the same mortgage interest rate

There is so much discrimination.

Still thinking wheter to just give up and go back home. The shame of all this despite not being able to retire, overall the children are doing far better here and loving every minute of it

[bluemellow]

Hi,..if Illegal aliens are being treated better, then please inform my parents of that...because we are illegal (came here when i was four) and its been nothing but hardship, pain, sleepless nights, and sickness. If I had it my way, I wouldn't of done it..

[Grumpy]

Hi Bluemellow

I do feel for you.

It is no fault of yours that your parents brought you here.

If the dream act is passed do you know if you will be able to agust status?

[bluemellow]

I hope I will be able to... if its passed, frankly i'll be happy with anything that passes, as long as it deals with the borders, and deals with the people already here. And really give people a shot at coming to america through legal channels and not taking so long.

[Ron]

Hi Bluemellow

Please do not get the aims of this site wrong, we are on your side

Hopefully if we manage to get children of ilegals LPR then you will be able to petition for your parents

We all want to support the Dream act but to include all children who were in the USA before they were 21years and soes not matter if they are over that age now

Ron

[bluemellow]

I understand what you mean... I think while the Dream act is a good bill, it really doesn't solve everything...it leaves allot of people hanging..I think we need an overall change to the goverment, and how its handling immigration.

[Susie]

Hi Blue mellow

As Ron says we are on your side, my posting was not informative enough, sorry I should have said more

We are here to help and aim to please so keep posting and watching as many things are happening in the background

[Allan Oakley]

How many legal E-2's ? I know as this information in somewhere on the British - American Chamber of Commerce website. Just over 400,000. Florida having the most of them with just over 25 % of that number. Of that number the vast majority are from the UK. If I find that article I'll post it here.

[floridapete]

I saw this on the 'other' Forum yesterday in answer to a question about Green Cards for relatives.

"Cajun, having an Irish passport certainly will not ensure you will be living in America within a year, quite the contrary, at least not legally.

There are some 30,000 Irish illegals in the States currently. Political attempts to regularise their position, along with some 8 million other illegals, are proving difficult as American immigration authorities are taking the view that the Irish economy is so strong, so much so that it is attracting over 70,000 immigrants annually, that there is plenty of work for these illegals back in Ireland."

I must say that I had not known previously that the Irish made up so siginificant a part of the illegals as my impression was always that there was almost an 'open door' policy from Ireland to US, their always being able to take part in the Green Card Lottery each year - which we Brits can't.

[floridapete]

And here is today's news:

http://news.aol.com/dailypulse/032706?id=20060327100709990001&ncid=NWS00010000000001

[Bobby]

The article seems to focus on the influx of illegals across the Mexican border and those seeking agricultural work in Texas. Of course there is going to be a more personal resentment from some of the senators in the South who see it that the amnesty in 1986 allowing 3 million illegals residency has opened the floodgates and now there are 12 million.
I'd like to see a fair system throughout the US if illegals were allowed some sort of amnesty as long as they can show that they are in employment and have being paying their taxes, and not just in the South where political leverage with Mexico suits the administration.
It's remarkable that the system is so flawed that you can live and work here, paying taxes etc. but you can't leave again for fear of not getting back through!
I wonder how many E-2's come from Mexico?? ...or anywhere in S. America??

[JulieC]

I am guessing not that many, as the substantial investment needed for E2 in general is raised by people, particularly Brits, raising money on their home sales so the British property market over the last 10 years has been responsable for the large increase in the number of E2s. Other than Brits, there are a fair number of Asians, though a lot of those try the L1 route and they have the largest take up of EB5s.

[floridapete]

Looks like the illegals are getting organised too !

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20060401180509990004&ncid=NWS00010000000001

[fatbrit]

As you know the illegals are being treated better than honest hard working legals.

The 245i life act rewards overstays etc., anyone who was in the US opn 20th Dec 2000 could pay a fine and adjust status to that of LPR


Think this is a bit of a distortion of the facts. The 245i Life Act did not reward overstays, nor was it a blanket amnesty.

I have great sympathy with your cause, but if you sacrifice truth for puffing to make your case, it will lose its credibility.

[Susie]

Hi Fatbrit

Please could you explain further on your thoughts, I am a bit confused


Did the life act allow illegals to pay a fine and then adjust to LPR


This is what I thought happened. It would have been cheaper for my son to overstay, pay a fine and then get green card.

Or have I got it all wrong?

[fatbrit]

Hi Fatbrit

Please could you explain further on your thoughts, I am a bit confused


Did the life act allow illegals to pay a fine and then adjust to LPR


This is what I thought happened. It would have been cheaper for my son to overstay, pay a fine and then get green card.

Or have I got it all wrong?

The main thrust of the Life Act was that it allowed you to adjust status even if you were not inspected at the port of entry provided your visa number was immediately available (certain family categories only). So, for example, if a USC married an alien who had chosen to climb the fence to reach the land o' the free, the provisions of the act allowed the alien to adjust status based on that marriage. Without this act, the alien was in an impossible position since they would be unable to gain legal status without leaving, and if they had left they would have incurred an automatic bar to entry for a long period of time. It was not a general amnesty (like that of the Reagan years for example) since you had to have the ability to adjust status base on your relationship to a USC. A family of aliens who hopped over and started working or who had entered legally and overstayed could not have used this act to gain permanent resident status.

However, it should be noted that any alien who is inspected at the port of entry and then overstays can adjust status based on certain family categories irrespective of the provisions of the Life Act. (Note: certain visa entries are exempt (crewman/transit), there is no appeal in this process, and the alien must demonstrate it was not their intent to immigrate on entry.)

I like the idea behind this forum (though it’s obviously in its early days) and support its goals. I do not think, however, that posters do anything to further their argument of better conditions for those who want to emigrate from the first world by complaining about those measures (e.g. provisions for illegals, diversity visa) that will mainly benefit other groups. It distracts from other valid arguments that could be brought forward.

[Bobby]

Fatbrit,

I think in general, most people logging onto and registering with this site have made fair attempts at emigration through legal channels and have been sold down the river, by either unscrupulous lawyers, business brokers or have just become victims of the tightening system (especially post 9/11).

Perhaps the questioning of other methods of entry bears a small resentment towards those who may have endured less hardship or monetary loss to get here, and who find themselves in better positions than those who have dotted the T's and crossed the I's (tongue in cheek shot at Bush!)??

I know being British myself, I don't really feel welcome here. I never have.
America was happy enough to see my face and my British compatriots in the front line in the Middle East though. I did not think we would have to go through so much bureaucracy to get here. If I'd known then what I know now, I would have taken my money to Spain, Portugal or Oz.

My daughter is a US citizen though and I feel that the effort we put into getting here in the first place was significant enough to give it a go, even though we know that one grumpy officer at any service center or entry point could turn our world upside down in a heartbeat.

I value the site and the efforts of those behind it and the voices of those who will gather here.
Sharing knowledge of cases and experiences can help people in the future, and save a bit of heartache for prospective immigrants or those in limbo who don't know their next move.

Bobby

[fatbrit]

Fatbrit,

I think in general, most people logging onto and registering...

Hi Bobby,

Definitely note and agree with your comments regarding caveat emptor for the prospective immigrant. I have never met a place as awash with this as America, and I have lived in some funny places. This is not peculiar to immigration over here and runs the full spectrum, but it is especially prevalent in government initiatives. There is a delight in making the simplest idea incredibly complicated, thus providing room for the middleman to take an enormous profit. Access to information in America is unsurpassed, but that information is of quantity rather than quality. It’s a breeding ground for con men, I’m afraid.

The post 9/11 paranoia is especially disturbing in the way that it is destroying the fabric and way of life of the country, in many ways without the slightest effect on preventing the reoccurrence of terrorist events. To any of us who were brought up in Europe and lived with terrorism on a daily basis, the approach to counteract it over here appears just plain dumb.

The resentment is certainly understandable for those who have gone the torturous routes to live here, in some cases without any permanence. But it is totally counterproductive if you wish to argue your case to the lawmakers to improve the plight of the type of immigrants who are likely to be attracted to these boards. Declaring an aim to end the diversity visa or not give amnesties in the vague hope that such accruing slack might be taken up with additional benefits for your situation is not IMO either likely to produce such a result nor likely to endear yourselves to your target audience outside this board. The little green giant does not play well in the outside world.

Being British is certainly a trump card over here and one that should be played at every opportunity. I find it v. amusing that they appear to love those who they fought to gain their independence from but detest those who helped them achieve it. Oh well, we shouldn’t look a gift horse in the mouth, I suppose!

David

[floridapete]

So here's a fix - or is it a fudge ?

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/state/orl-immigration0506apr05,0,5508790.story?coll=orl-home-headlines

[fatbrit]

So here's a fix - or is it a fudge ?

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/state/orl-immigration0506apr05,0,5508790.story?coll=orl-home-headlines


Good politics is the art of the possible. And there are the Democrats and half the Republicans on one side, and the other half of the Republicans on the other side. Coincidentally, most of the electorate is not associated with either of these groups, and the original bill from the House was probably closer to the general feeling in the country IMO.

But luckily, we also sometimes have governments to protect us from ourselves, and the Senate’s bill is looking promising in that it seems to be providing a comprehensive and practical solution. Looking at it, I’m not sure that the measures for the “Blue Card” are already too tough. Remember that they have to sell this card to those who would apply for it, since if they don’t manage to sell it to them, they will not have produced a solution. The target for these cards is already living here, already working here, already has a mortgage and the kids at school. And you want me to pay thousands in fines (We’re struggling to make ends meet already!), learn English (Well my kids speak it but I don’t need to!), and pass through a line of hoops over the next dozen years (Never was very good with understanding paperwork!).

To pass it, though, they are going to have to throw in some gung-ho measures to placate the blood-curdling screams of their voters. However, the measures in the article seem to make a complicated process even more complicated. Proving someone was here and working on Jan 1, 2004, is a difficult enough task for an agency that can’t process an address change, never mind taking a group of undocumented people and dividing them into subgroups. Personally, I would like to see the gung-ho placating measures directed to enforcement of the “Blue Card” proposal so there are timely exits from those who are already here but do not qualify, and equally quick exits for those who arrive outside the process believing they can just carry on as before.

[Susie]

Fatbrit,

I think in general, most people logging onto and registering with this site have made fair attempts at emigration through legal channels and have been sold down the river, by either unscrupulous lawyers, business brokers or have just become victims of the tightening system (especially post 9/11).

Perhaps the questioning of other methods of entry bears a small resentment towards those who may have endured less hardship or monetary loss to get here, and who find themselves in better positions than those who have dotted the T's and crossed the I's (tongue in cheek shot at Bush!)??

I know being British myself, I don't really feel welcome here. I never have.
America was happy enough to see my face and my British compatriots in the front line in the Middle East though. I did not think we would have to go through so much bureaucracy to get here. If I'd known then what I know now, I would have taken my money to Spain, Portugal or Oz.

My daughter is a US citizen though and I feel that the effort we put into getting here in the first place was significant enough to give it a go, even though we know that one grumpy officer at any service center or entry point could turn our world upside down in a heartbeat.

I value the site and the efforts of those behind it and the voices of those who will gather here.
Sharing knowledge of cases and experiences can help people in the future, and save a bit of heartache for prospective immigrants or those in limbo who don't know their next move.

Bobby


Thank you for your kind comments, you have pretty much hit the nail on the head

Many of us have employed, "visa consultants", immigration attorneys, business brokers etc., and paid thousands of dollars wanting to do everthing "by the Book"

Waited in the system, only to have cases lost, backlogs, mistakes by either attorneys or USCIS , retrogression. The USCIS is broken and needs to be fixed, or at least attempt to fix it. Family refunification must be a top priority

The idea of this site is to help any possible immigrant, or immigrant currently living in any of the 50 states of America with issues or concerns regarding the current immigration system.

This includes children of ilegals, they had no choice in being moved to the USA by their ilegal parents, these childre deserve to be able to live in the USA providing they are of good moral charater

There is so much going on in the background, The judicary commitee has been informed, we are contacting TV stations, media, Chamber of commerce, we will, with members support eventually get our voices heard

Thanks folkes for all your support, it means so much

[Kitty]

seems like 2007 may be the year for an amensty, well only hearsay but does anyone know for sure

[DEE F]

Hi, great posts there from all concerned, one question which as always niggled me is , why are the British not allowed in the GC Lottery is it political,what is the criteria required, I always thought that it was only 3rd world countries that were allowed to do the lottery, but surely Ireland doesnt come under this category, would someone like to answer this for me, it would be much appreciated.:confused: :confused:


Dee xx

[v2002]

DV lottery is based on certain numbers of PPL. wanting to come here yearly... after a CERTAIN limit that country is barred to play the DVL. As ireland is new the quota for immigrants application have not reached the mark the inflow from there is not yet too much the day it will HIT the number IRELAND will be out too.Thats how it works.
Hi, great posts there from all concerned, one question which as always niggled me is , why are the British not allowed in the GC Lottery is it political,what is the criteria required, I always thought that it was only 3rd world countries that were allowed to do the lottery, but surely Ireland doesnt come under this category, would someone like to answer this for me, it would be much appreciated.:confused: :confused:
Dee xx

[floridapete]

Ah ! And there is the $64K question !

The official answer that is always trolled ouyt is that the Uk already enjoys 55,000 green cards per year (under other categories of qualification) - and that answer has been trolled out for the last 15 years since Britain was last allowed to enter the GCL in 1991.

But what about Ireland then ? Have they been so restricted in their allocations over the years ? I know of several places where 'Irish American' communities are in the predominance - but tell me of one single British ghetto in the USA ?

The fact is that the USA have longtime had a 'romantic affair' with the Irish - and the USA have the gall to redraw the map of Ireland and declare Northern Ireland Irish for their purposes !

So there is no way that you are ever going to win this one - and you can accept that Britons (IBrits who were born in Britain of British Parents that is) will NEVER agian be able to enter the GCL.

Having said all of that - some very dear friends who were amongst those Brits that 'got lucky' in that GCL of 1991 are shortly to return to England from 'sunny California' because they can't stand the place (and can't afford the place) anymore !

[v2002]

"Its just a opinion" I think there is a simple way to resolve the ILLEGAL problem here....If politicians are really intrested in solving it .
*TELL all ILLEGALS to pack bags take a stamp from border on passports/documents.. go home for TWO years apply with the copy of that stamp through legal channel and pay fine on application and let them IN .
** During this two YEARS CLEAR all backlogged legal applications IN A HEART BEAT... No more waiting .. just like amnesty ... clear them all...... and than have the KIDS OF LEGALS apply for immidiate adjustment of status if they are above 21 and unmarried and clear them in 3 months .
Thats all I have to say ... I dont like Illegals getting ahead of me when I play by the rules hardship or no hardship ? ILLEGAL'S ARE ILLEGAL'S they shoud be punished for breaking the law NOT REWARDED BY JUMPING THEM AHEAD OF LEGALS who play by the rule.
WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PPL? they are so worried about illegals how about turning your head towards the PLIGHT OF LEGALS ? dont they think THEY SEE THE SCREAMS.......sssssssssssss.....FOR HELP ????
:p I am soooooo mad ...........

[DEE F]

Thanks for tha v2002 and Florida Pete,but I have got to say when is some one going to look at the plight of all the people who are trying to come here legally, I realise that most of the illegals are hard workers and are prepared to do jobs that Americans dont want to do,and i personally have nothing whatsoever against them, each to their own, but what about the rest of us, we to are hardworking and just want to get on with our lives without all the beuracratic nonsence that is put in our way constantly, mind you it sometimes makes me wonder if it does pay to be honest, we as I am sure a lot of people on this and other forums have fought tooth and nail for our legal status but it is never enough, there always seems to be another hurdle to jump over , I dont know maybe one day someone will get it right, keep up the good work guys you are doing a great job.:confused:

Dee xx

[Emmalee25]

"But what about Ireland then ? Have they been so restricted in their allocations over the years ? I know of several places where 'Irish American' communities are in the predominance - but tell me of one single British ghetto in the USA ?"


LOL Kissimee andf davenport FL....never met so many brits before :)

[chris]

TELL all ILLEGALS to pack bags take a stamp from border on passports/documents.. go home for TWO years apply with the copy of that stamp through legal channel and pay fine on application and let them IN .
....But whose going to pick all the citrus, pack the meat (see todays raids), paint houses, put stucco on, ete, etc, in the intervening 2 year period.
Sorry for the analagy, but illegal immigartion is like drug taking, there is a worker/user and an employer/dealer. You will never stamp out the drug problem until you get rid of all the dealers. Same with illiegal immigration - they need to punish the US employers big time. But then again, will such a harsh line ultimately hit some politicians in their campaign chests.
The Guest Worker program being touted about is little different to Slavery except that it's voluntary. And in any case, once Jose gets his GC he won't want to pick oranges for peanuts (skuse pun) but will want to move and get a proper paying job. With a GC their is BA Uncle Sam can do about it and then Jose's brother will nip over the fence to fill the vacant job in the groves. Law of supply and demand.

[britcan]

Hi, great posts there from all concerned, one question which as always niggled me is , why are the British not allowed in the GC Lottery is it political,what is the criteria required, I always thought that it was only 3rd world countries that were allowed to do the lottery, but surely Ireland doesnt come under this category, would someone like to answer this for me, it would be much appreciated.:confused: :confused:


Dee xx
The reason why the British cannot enter the GC lottery is simple- it was introduced by Senator Edward Kennedy- he insisted that if he was going to be introducing it, then 50% of the GC lottery winners must be from Ireland. Of course he is in MA, where there are a lot of Irish voters!! Need I say any more..

[Grumpy]

H Chris

Could not agree more to your comments, this would seem to be a fair way of going about documenting illegals , in practice would be near impossible though



TELL all ILLEGALS to pack bags take a stamp from border on passports/documents.. go home for TWO years apply with the copy of that stamp through legal channel and pay fine on application and let them IN .

[v2002]

.Chris ***I dont care about .....
....But whose going to pick all the citrus, pack the meat (...... But then again, will such a harsh line ultimately hit some politicians in their campaign chests.
And regarding ....
The Guest Worker program
*** I have two words for law maker ... Follow existing laws
Implement them first than think of new ways... By the way pardon me if ILLEGALS are so important why not SCRAP the immigration law TOTALLY ?

And in any case, once Jose gets his GC he won't want to pick oranges for peanuts (skuse pun) :D about this ... If they CLEAR all legal files in a heart beat and in THREE months time get the legal kids in country I would not care if JOSE picks oranges or he picks a ticket to run for whitehouse:p .
:p But than we all know Its a WISH LIST....Who knows :santa may just grant us::p

[Kriz1]

The article seems to focus on the influx of illegals across the Mexican border and those seeking agricultural work in Texas. Of course there is going to be a more personal resentment from some of the senators in the South who see it that the amnesty in 1986 allowing 3 million illegals residency has opened the floodgates and now there are 12 million.
I'd like to see a fair system throughout the US if illegals were allowed some sort of amnesty as long as they can show that they are in employment and have being paying their taxes, and not just in the South where political leverage with Mexico suits the administration.
It's remarkable that the system is so flawed that you can live and work here, paying taxes etc. but you can't leave again for fear of not getting back through!
I wonder how many E-2's come from Mexico?? ...or anywhere in S. America??
There are a few people from South America on E2s here on Cape....I'm always being asked where abouts in South America I come from and what visa I'm on...a lot more are here because of family...we have a huge Brazilian community here...they have been here longer than most of the white folk..but not as long as the Portuguese...

[Kriz1]

Living in a place with next to no illegals...I know that there is not a job that Americans will not do...if they are paid a fair wage...
With illegals being rounded up by the thousands every week now...some small towns in the USA were almost emptied of chicken packing workers ...but within a week Americans have been taken on..the wage rise...$2 an hour...the myth that Americans will not do the work is just that...a myth...American don't want to live in run down huts and 15 to a house...they want to work for a living wage...not matter what the job...

[v2002]

"""illegals being rounded up by the thousands every week now"""
I dont Care if they round up illegals or not !!!! The point of attention is not illegals ... Its that why the lawmakers are concentrating on making them as priority when as per the existing laws THE FOCUS SHOULD BE ON LEGAL immigrants problems ....and How much THEY contribute only to feel miserable and helpless because of the RED tapes which bind them to constant misery and worries. Is that what you get to follow the law ?
We do deserve better!!!!!!!!! DONT WE ?

[Kriz1]

I think illegals are very much on the minds of a lot of Americans nowadays...and this lets say 'bad feeling' Americans are now having more and more about immigrants is starting up a lot of forums to cut down on immigration to this country by anyone legal or illegal...

So whatever happens to the illegals could have a good or bad knock on effect to everyone over time....

[Emmalee25]

V2002
Hi, Ive just realised you havent introduced yourself to us in the "Introduce yourself" section!!!

Would you mind giving us a quick intro, about you and what you do etc etc etc

Ta
Em x

[v2002]

V2002
Hi, Ive just realised you havent introduced yourself to us in the "Introduce yourself" section!!!
** I have it was under vip2002.... Just got My ID fixed by punky :D
Ta
Em x

[mark]

H Chris

Could not agree more to your comments, this would seem to be a fair way of going about documenting illegals , in practice would be near impossible though



TELL all ILLEGALS to pack bags take a stamp from border on passports/documents.. go home for TWO years apply with the copy of that stamp through legal channel and pay fine on application and let them IN .


Hi

Well said, now is there a way to find out how many legals are in the USA?

[v2002]

YES .....total usa population minus legals=illegals:D
Hi

Well said, now is there a way to find out how many legals are in the USA?

[v2002]

YES .....total usa population minus illegals=legals:D

[David R. Lenox]

I think illegals are very much on the minds of a lot of Americans nowadays...and this lets say 'bad feeling' Americans are now having more and more about immigrants is starting up a lot of forums to cut down on immigration to this country by anyone legal or illegal...

So whatever happens to the illegals could have a good or bad knock on effect to everyone over time....


Kriz, this is very true. I'm afraid the country's mood is not favorable on the entire topic of immigration, legal and especially illegal. More and more press articles are coming out in the media about illegals coming in, learning the ropes of a particular industry such as carpentry etc then opening their own business and competing against their former American employers. In many cases, the illegals are able to offer cut-rate work by failing to withhold federal taxes or pay other mandated obligations that the American companies were honoring. By the way, I'm not just talking about Mexicans - I am aware of a British gentleman who was illegally running a paving company in the Disney area who was discovered and deported by the Border Patrol.

Don't believe ANY of this nonsense about "Americans not wanting the work". I was visiting my in-laws in a little town in Ohio, on the Ohio River, that has been economically devastated by "globalization" and the disintegration of unions. We are talking about men in their fifties now trying to make ends meet by painting houses, trash collection and working in local restaurants. You know, the jobs that "only Mexicans will do". And having spent a few hours on the porches and in the downstairs basement bars with them, I can tell you that they are very angry over the state of the country and immigration is high on the list.

The feeling among these men in this little town and probably in many other locations in "Mid America" is that it's time the rest of the world started putting their houses in order. Frightened of the military junta running whatever African country you find yourself in? Do something about it. Tired of a confiscatory tax rate in Britain? Fix it yourself by voting the current politicians out of office. I many, many times hear this theme now.

I also think there has been a bit of a psychological reaction to the fact that the nation's population exceeded 300 million a couple of months ago. Many Americans feel that we are paving everything over in sight and that many natural treasures are endangered by continued population growth. Any one who has owned a vacation villa in Florida over the last ten years will no doubt agree that the pace of growth has been stunning and disheartening for anyone wanting to see some semblance of natural Florida preserved.

[Susie]

"Its just a opinion" I think there is a simple way to resolve the ILLEGAL problem here....If politicians are really intrested in solving it .
*TELL all ILLEGALS to pack bags take a stamp from border on passports/documents.. go home for TWO years apply with the copy of that stamp through legal channel and pay fine on application and let them IN .
** During this two YEARS CLEAR all backlogged legal applications IN A HEART BEAT... No more waiting .. just like amnesty ... clear them all...... and than have the KIDS OF LEGALS apply for immidiate adjustment of status if they are above 21 and unmarried and clear them in 3 months .
Thats all I have to say ... I dont like Illegals getting ahead of me when I play by the rules hardship or no hardship ? ILLEGAL'S ARE ILLEGAL'S they shoud be punished for breaking the law NOT REWARDED BY JUMPING THEM AHEAD OF LEGALS who play by the rule.
WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PPL? they are so worried about illegals how about turning your head towards the PLIGHT OF LEGALS ? dont they think THEY SEE THE SCREAMS.......sssssssssssss.....FOR HELP ????
:p I am soooooo mad ...........

Hi

Well said, me too sooooooooo mad

I do feel for illegal children though as it is not their fault what their parents do, So they can stay and sponcer their parents to join them after they go back to their home country and re enter the uSA legally and after paying a fine

The fines could pay for more uscis staff and therefore be able to process legal applications in a timely manor

[chris]

David,
I accept up to a point your remarks about the effects of globalisation within the USA and the impact on jobs. However consider this fact..
The US economy is over 60% consumer driven. There is a seller and a buyer. the average joe buyer won't pay more than say $10 bucks for a toaster, but the US seller can't make and sell a US toaster for $10.00 because of the encost, medical care, etc. He can make it and sell it for $20.00. However, all the us buyer is preparaed to pay is $10.00, so guess where the seller moves his production to ... China, where he can make his toaster and sell it through Walmart for $10.00, a price the us buyer, who is now out of a job because his toaster making factory in the US just moved production overseas.
A synpopsis of this toaster scenario was in the Orlando Sentinel some while ago and the write described the US worker as totallly schizophrenic in that they want low cost consumer goods but also want high pay and encost. The 2 don't go together and that is unfortunately the price the US worker is paying nowadays. The UK went through simialr things in pricing itself out of the market before MT sorted things out. Like many things in life, the answer lies with the people affected by it all.

[David R. Lenox]

David,
I accept up to a point your remarks about the effects of globalisation within the USA and the impact on jobs. However consider this fact..
The US economy is over 60% consumer driven. There is a seller and a buyer. the average joe buyer won't pay more than say $10 bucks for a toaster, but the US seller can't make and sell a US toaster for $10.00 because of the encost, medical care, etc. He can make it and sell it for $20.00. However, all the us buyer is preparaed to pay is $10.00, so guess where the seller moves his production to ... China, where he can make his toaster and sell it through Walmart for $10.00, a price the us buyer, who is now out of a job because his toaster making factory in the US just moved production overseas.
A synpopsis of this toaster scenario was in the Orlando Sentinel some while ago and the write described the US worker as totallly schizophrenic in that they want low cost consumer goods but also want high pay and encost. The 2 don't go together and that is unfortunately the price the US worker is paying nowadays. The UK went through simialr things in pricing itself out of the market before MT sorted things out. Like many things in life, the answer lies with the people affected by it all.


Chris, no argument here about the economics of the situation. Yes, your synopsis is entirely correct. My comments were more focused on the consequence of these changes and the impact these changes have on the views of the typical American and particularly previous middle income workers. The resentment doesn't just stem from the loss of toaster jobs to Malaysia - now entire sectors of white collar positions are in jeopardy as engineering, computer and like positions are given to Indian, Pakistani or other workers coming into the US on visas and all because it is just so much "cheaper" to employ them.

I think what I am trying to convey is the other side of the card to you - the answer to "what do Americans want?" based on what I hear as an American. I can tell you from personal experience about the tears and frustration of my brother in law who spent years scrapping and saving to get his son an engineering degree only for he and his son to find out the boy lost a covetted job to an Indian student from Mumbai. The sense of betrayal by our government is quite real and when you find forum after forum of US citizens wanting to stop or cap immigration, it is certainly caused by these kinds of situations. Well, in the light of day, and in calmer emotions, different feelings ought to prevail about, for example, a British couple bringing over a significant investment that will employ some Americans in Florida. But, in this climate, it doesn't generally.

[chris]

David,
I can agree that it must be completely gut wrenching to support your kids, help them attain something in life, then have it all pulled from under your feet by someone who will do it for less. In my business we sell product to end users and no matter how competitive I think my prices are, there is and alwasy will be someone out there who will do it for less. Market forces I'm afraid.
As for the Amercians doing something about the situation, the answers ultimately lies with the voters. However I really do believe that the immigrants is being made the scapegoat here. Watch Lou Dobbs and he usually pins the blame on the immigrant for the country's woes. It is not the government that wanted the Indian employee it is the American employer. You can take your scenario and draw it down within the USA actually into a state by state competition. Many auto jobs have been lost in the Michigan area, etc as US automakers have closed down costly plants and pulled out of agreements with the unions over benefits, short and long term. Yet, in the southern states we are seeing automakers opening up new plants and hiring non-union employees at lower rates, less benefits and getting state incentives to do so. Your nephew could just as easily been passed over by a southern state worker who was prepared to accept the lower benefits of the southern auto package. Do you see what I mean?
IMHO the real villains in the piece are the 'corrupt' and spineless politicians and the corporate world. I don't care whether it's corporate America or corporate Britain, they are the same. With a global influence and presence, they have no loyalty to their country, only to the stockholders. Much of Bush's taxation measures have rewarded corporate America and profits made abroad have not been penalised. So they are rewarded for sourcing abroad.
However, the flip side is for those Americans with 401K's who want a good retirement, they want to invest in the good corporate performers, so will look to support the corporate giants, who make bumper profits overseas. On the otherhand some 401K investors may want to take an ethical path and only invest in companies that support and benefit the USA, but in turn their return may not be as great and hence their retirement not as rosy.
The whole thing is a very complex problem and there are many seperate issues that need to be dealt with.
If I were to compare one thing between the US and the UK - medical care. We have the NHS, wart and all. It may not be perfect, but becoming ill isn't the stuff of nightmares, more delays. On the otherhand folks in the US actively seek out the companies that offer the best benefits package, not necessarily salary - medical coverage is crucial to folks here. As a result, you have many, many square pegs in round holes. When did you hear of UK jobseekers focussing on healthcare in a job interview? Because of that fact alone, many companies in order to compete, have enormously expensive health coverages, which now many companies are now pulling out of simply because they can't afford it and be competitive.
The $10.00 toaster has a lot to answer for, but I stil believe that the answer lies with the American voter, but whether they want to accept the pain that will come with tackling all the issues in the overall problem is something I'm not sure they really want to do.

[David R. Lenox]

Well, Chris, I agreed with you up to the point of my nephew being passed over by a lowered salaried worker in a southern state. I think this is really the crux of the issue. Probably it would not have stung as much. But to be passed over for a foreigner raises a much bigger and deeper problem: why is the US government implementing policies favoring corporate interests over the needs of its own citizens? That is the question that frequently comes up in discussions around the typical family table in this country.

On another thread I suggested some ideas for E2 holders (and really mostly British as frankly I am not acquainted with other nationalities in Florida using that route) to garner political support for problems with children aging out, ridiculously short renewal periods and so forth. I think my comments may have fallen on deaf ears. US politicians are inundated with concerns of their own voting constituents - people who are troubled and upset about the state of the country. From their perspective, the impending 21st birthday of a young British man who may be sent back to England fades in significance when the people who pay your salary are losing their homes by the hundreds and thousands because they can no longer afford the property taxes or insurance or they are looking at bankruptcy because a child fell off a swing set at the park and broke an arm. Every year my firm's health insurance cost rise 30 percent! When my partner lost a two year battle with colon cancer, the medical bills approached $5,000,000.00. Had he not been retained with our firm and on our plan, his family would have been destroyed. My assistant's reaction to Brits wanting to move over here after learning about the NHS system in Britain is "are they insane?" But to keep from going too far afield, my point is that "money" and organization are the only tools you have to ensure that your interests are heard in this country. They are the only tools available to carve yourselves out from being "lumped in" with the problems associated with illegal Mexican immigration and to be heard over the growing rumbling from the American people about the issue.

[chris]

Your'e dead right David that money talks and Susie mentioned only recently that a lobbyist to get 'our' message across to the politicians would cost around $5000.00 per month. My reaction to that is that if it costs $5K per month for the lobbyist to talk to the guy, what does the politicians get out of that financial equation. I draw my own conclusions. It is the seamier side of politicians, some would say that's the reality just suck it in, but at some point people - your US voters have got to pin their representative in a corner and make it clear they need a return to ethical politics, not check book politics.
You asked why the govenrment favors corporate america over joe public - simple. Corporate pays for his fundrasing, etc. Look at the Bush administration and you will see how the favors for fundraising were all being paid back. I think you'll also find the Democrats do the same. They do the same in the UK too (witness the recent cash for honors probe).
As far as taking pot shots at immigrants for the countries woes, do you lump all immigrants in the same boat? Do you blame the Indian from Mumbia for taking a job and do you also blame the E2 investor for coming to the US, starting a business and creating jobs for US citizens?
The healthcare is also a real bag of washers too. Good medical is never cheap, but why is it so expensive. In many cases, litigation has helped increase costs. Many Americans are hard working folks and live long and healthy lives. Many others don't take care of themselves with diet, exercise, etc and end up costing the taxpayer huge dollars. You also get a chunk who at the slightest injury, hospital mix up, etc shout 'Sue'. For these it's often a once in a lifetime chance to get hold of a big chunk of money and move on their life.
On the mexican bit, I would make the comment that a couple fo weeks ago, I read an article in the BBC online which showed where the immigrants (legal & otherwise were and where their money went). Not surprisingly Mexicans , etc send an enormous amount of money directly out of the US back to their families. Whilst I applaud their family 'belonging', not putting that money back into the US economy is harmful as a whole. Exactly the same type of report was published yesterday, again on the BBC online newws about the benefits of the new eastern bloc immigrants to the UK. The politicians have been trotting out the same fodder as here 'they do the jobs the UK worker won't do". Blair, etc say they are good fro the UK. The report yesterday detailed that the contribution/benefit to the UK of these people is very, very limited as guess what... they send back most of the dosh they earn in the UK back to their families in Poland, Bulgaria, etc. The US problems on immigration are by no means unique and I can foresee a global change on immigration and the movement of labor. Are we to see 'exit visas'??? so countries can hang on to their brightest.
The whole thing is a real can of worms when you start to really look at it. I do know that as an E2 investor who came in 2000 and strated from scratch and have 2 young kids who are growing up as mini americans, all I seek is fairness. I don't particularly want special treatment, even though the UK has stood by the US more than other nation in the past and certainly the last 7 years. It bothers me when I see the contribution we are making to the US and the contribution my kids could make to this country and then I look at what some of the 12,000,000 do and it makes my blood boil.

[DebbieM]

Excellent debat chaps. How refreshing to see honest opinions being voiced, without it becoming personal or petty.

Very interesting to see read both sides!

Debs

[chris]

Hey Debs
Thanks for the vote of support. I'd like to hope that David and I are both on the same side on this, other than a blanket ban on immigration which does no-one anygood and would only spring other countries into retaliatory action.

[DEE F]

Hi Chris David and anyone else who has contributed to this thread, i have read these postings twice now with avid interest(sciatica kees me from doing anything else at the moment) and I feel I have to put my two pennorth in, firstly I fully understand what you are all saying and agree up to a point, however and it is a big however, i personally dont care how loud we all shout, the thing that mostly stops our voices from being heard is the fact that we are not allowed to vote so therefore not a lot of use to the polititians it seems to me that especially here in US money talks and etc etc you know the rest, so therefore unless we are contributing to their parties then why should anyone want to help us really,we live in a country that as far as they are concerned have laws that are there to be adhered to especially immigration laws, do we really believe they will change them because we are unhappy with them, I think not, with the exception of a few I beleive that most Brits come into this Country legaly, and try thier best giving up everything they owned back home to "make a new life for themselves"and then in comes renewal time and bang they end up landlocked for fear of losing everything that they own and have worked for cant or darent go back to UK and embassy, far too much to lose in case they are refused entry on return, so here we all stay hoping for a miracle to happen that will change things for us, the thing that makes me so mad is all the so called VA,S CONSULTANTS ETC who normally have nothing more to offer you at this stage, well they have had your dosh why should they??. So until someone up there in the big old house I think the colour is white, decides to listen to our plight and who knows perhaps gives us the right to vote, we are stuffed, and I personally dont blame anyone for being here illegally if they are refused visas or overstay or whatever, it is people like Susie that I take my hat off to I have never seen anyone fight so much for a cause, let us hope Susie that one day someone will listen and do something, the system is definately broken but who is prepared to mend it???? Would I do it all again ? The answer to that is a definate NO NO NO, being landlocked is absolutely the pits, I for one know my children cant afford to come to Florida flight prices determine that, I cant go back to see them so what do you do, and by the way guys this is not the ravings of a mad woman just someone who is very angry at the system.:mad: :mad: :mad:


Dee xxx

[v2002]

Hi Chris David and anyone else who has contributed to this thread, i have read these postings twice now with avid interest(sciatica kees me from doing anything else at the moment) and I feel I have to put my two pennorth in,.................. I cant go back to see them so what do you do, and by the way guys this is not the ravings of a mad woman just someone who is very angry at the system. :mad: :mad:

Dee xxx
I completely endorse your thoughts. The reality is- nothing has ever changed before and will never change in future for legal immigrants ... Its always the illegal who are in limelight’s Look at what happened in 1984? Reform for illegal. Look at Dec 2002 reform? Again meant to be for illegal, that’s the truth and it takes guts to face it. Hats off to you DEE:) I for one fear history will repeat itself and the future changes will again be made for illegal and POOR legal will keep on facing all the problems they face now JUST because THEY are legal and are fearful to break the laws. :mad: Makes me Sooooooooooo angry at the system.

[DEE F]

Hi V2002 i Totaly agree everything is geared up to helping those who came here illegally, I dont object to illegals per se what I object to is the total disregard for all the people who came here legally, they are all in a no win situation, and as for expecting changes to be made, well I think we have more chance of getting 8 drawers!!!!!!! And where this country gets off in trying to keep families apart well that just beggars belief. And as for medical care that also is a joke, we where told before we came out here 3 years ago that medical insurance was very easy to get, as a diabetic it costs me a small fortune no one wants to insure me unless I am prepared to take out a second mortgage because I have a pre existing condition, and the only company that would, wont pay out until 180 days have elapsed !!!!!! A lot could go wrong in that time, I for one will never knock the NHS AGAIN. However if I was here illegally I would be able to get medical help, ironic isnt it
that we get penalised for doing the right thing!!!!!!:mad: :mad:


Dee xxx

[David R. Lenox]

Actually Dee, while you may not be able to go into the voting booth in Florida, you do have another very important kind of vote: money. Compare the average Briton's resourses to those of the poor Mexicans who just struggled across the Sonoran Desert to get through the border? As a group, you are in a far better position to influence US politicians. You need to shepherd your resources in the right direction.

Please take a look at my prior posting on another thread on this topic. Why spend money hiring a lobbyist when, with a bit of organization, you can have direct access and the ear of a couple of sympathetic US congressmen? Use your funds to create a direct link between campaign contributions and access to a couple of Florida congressmen! This is why I suggested mapping out a "battle strategy" of organizing yourselves, pooling funds, meeting with the local staff of the congressmen such as Dave Weldon who has already shown some interest in helping and take the "you scratch our back and we'll scratch yours". I'd wager that his office will help you go about forming a political action committee if they know Congressman Weldon would benefit from it.

[David R. Lenox]

Chris to clarify, I am not taking any potshots at anyone for the country's woes. I am trying to convey to you the feeling held by some Americans related to the status of the nation's economy and view of the world. For many people in this country, the traditional "American Dream" is in great jeopardy. Housing is becoming unaffordable for large numbers of people, especially first time buyers, fire fighters, police, teachers and so forth. Parents are working two jobs literally to keep the mortgage holder at bay. So these feelings have been growing over the last ten years.

The problems experienced by UK visa holders have always been inexplicable to me. From a purely selfish view, it makes a great deal more sense to me to have you bring your wealth here. There is also a long history of connections between the countries and we have been allies in the nastiest wars of the last century.

[David R. Lenox]

Forgot to add one thought Chris on medical care. It is a common theme trotted out by the American Medical Association (and let me say that I am not a personal injury attorney) that litigation is driving up the cost of medical care. The truth is that a very small percentage of doctors are responsible for the vast majority of the claims and because these doctors are not disciplined by their own organizations or removed from practice, additional lawsuits and claims are generated by them.

Medical care expenses are the product of applying pure capitalism to an arena of human activity that probably requires some level of government involvement even if it is to create much larger pools of employees within groups so as to reduce the overall exposure to any particular HMO. At the moment, the HMOs (essentially private health care maintenance organizations) are the only mechanism working to try to keep medical costs from going into the stratosphere in the US (by forcing doctors and hospitals to negotiate reduced amounts on bills etc) but even then, they are looking only to their bottom line rather than to the interests of the individuals under their plan.

For example, our health care provider representative last year informed me that (quite honestly actually) that our employees would be given a list of physicians they could consult with under the plan and that these doctors were selected based on "sensitivity" to health care costs. I asked what the criteria were for "sensitivity". I was then told that the doctors were ones that had shown a willingness not to refer the patient to a specialist. In other words, even if the patient likely needed some kind of specialized care or examination, the doctor wasn't going to do it. Now, how is that for "first world" health care!!!!

[DEE F]

Hi David, That was the point I was trying to make, we have already been in touch with numerous congressmen Dave Weldon being one of them, we had a battle on our hands 18 months ago regarding our daughter and POE look at thread 'from the horses mouth," it explains a little bit about it there, the gist of story was she was denied entry to US after accusations made to her by officers at POE which were totaly unfounded, anyway long story short we were told catergorically that as non voters their was nothing could be done, in all fairness to Dave weldon he was very good to us and tried to get my daughters decision about denial to Country overturned, but that didnt happen , no surprise there then. I dont want to upset anyone here but I stand by my guns when I say that all help out here is geared up to the illegalls and I for one think it is an outraage when we invest all our money in this country employ USC,and pay our taxes etc and for what, to be told in a heartbeat it is all over if they so want to, it just makes my blood boil, if we are the allies I would hate to be their enemy, I take it you are a USC David correct me if I am wrong, suerly you can see yourself that by doing what we do out here we are only helping the countries economy, and that can only be a good thing, dont get me wrong here David this is a wonderful place to live however when you are living your life as an honest hardworker and know that it could all be taken from you in a heartbeat it is ridiculous, you see all of us are in the system now and they have all knowledge about us except our shoe size, not so for the people who sneak over the borders, so it would be quite difficult to live out here as an illegal we would be forever looking over our shoulder and who the hell wants to live their life like that, all any of us want is to be able to live our lives without all the red tape and beauracratic nonsense that goes on here, so all I say is this for all the help they want to give the 12 million illegalls what about the thousands of legals, that are not even allowed to be with their familes and dont get any help, it is not like we come here to sponge off the Country because we dont , and more to the point wouldnt be allowed to anyway, I am sure that if we were allowed to vote then things would change for the better but as we arent then it is up to us, I certainly dont think they will change any laws just because we are unhappy with them, it is about time they woke up and smelt the coffee, it wouldnt surprise me if in tiime the US became a no go for Brits, we know when we arent wanted , and Amereica needs to realise that there are other countries in this world. I rest my case:mad: :mad: :mad:


Dee xxx

[David R. Lenox]

Dee there are plenty of Americans with "the vote" but no power. And why is that? Because they have no money. It is only when a sufficient number of them begin to vote in a certain way that Congress takes note of them. Take the case of your experience with Congressman Weldon. At the time you were dealing with him, you weren't even a constituent. You donated no money to his campaign and couldn't vote for him. You had "no leverage".

You can't look at this from the point of view that "oh we already tried to get his help and he was polite but didn't do much". You have to look at this as "how would this have been different if we had an organization that regularly helped his re-election campaign, coordinated with his staff, contributed a few hundred dollars to his campaign chest etc and so on". You have to get "leverage". Spending money on a lawyer to write amendments federal law or on a lobbyist (you will be one of dozens of clients) isn't going to get you to where you want to be.

[Susie]

Wow what a thread !

Thanks to all for your comments, I agree with David, its all about money! If you have it you can put it to the test and achieve something.

Just wished we could get a high profile person to support expatsvoice, even if in name only. Anyone got contacts?

This is why I am asking all members to try and recruit more members and encourage people to donate as and when able so that we can move forward with our plans

I have a strong feeling that unless we get heard withing the first 6 months of this year then nothing maybe achieved till 2008

Just so you know lobbyists charge around $5000 per month

[chris]

David,
My comment about taking pot shots was not meant as a criticism at all. I hope you didn't take offence. As remarked earlier, this has been one of those enjoyable debates with no personal swipes ot wahtever.
I hear what you say about leverage, 'greasing palms' is another description that springs to mind. At the wrong side of 55, I have experienced much, but still consider myself naieve in some areas, but the concept of giving money to an elected public official in order for him/her to do something sticks in the back of my throat. I am a strong believer in ethical politics and ethics generally. I guess that's what makes me naieve (damn word can never work out how to spell it!).
Dee is right, the cards are well and truly stcacked against the legal immigrant and in the favor of the illegal. It's not unlike the aid that criminals get and the poor victims get nothing. We live in a very unfair world.
Let us hope that with the changes in Congress and the Senate, change for the better may come about. Certainly your point about globalisation is being taken up by Charles Rangel (I think I got his name right) who is Chairman of the Ways & Means Committee. He said yesterday that he is going to curtail the tax breaks to corporate america given by Bush that encouraged them to move jobs overseas and bring about a climate to get those jobs back in the US.

[InnVic]

ethical politics.
...sorry but that made me laugh...another oxymoron!

[chris]

Now now Innvic, stop being the cynic!! There are still one or 2 ethical politicians out there. I do believe Toys are Us are giving out a $25,000 savings bonbd to the first person who finds one!!!