CitiGroup get baliled out by US Govt

[chris]

Well, after their shares starting taking a dive late last week, they get a $20 Billion dollar handout by the Feds over the weekend. No grilling by Congress like the US Automakers did. Congressman were baying for the automakers blood last week and demanding they change their business model, etc, etc.
Citigroup's Chairman Vikrim Pandit said Friday as their shares were going south, that they would NOT be changing their business model and things would remain the same as they were properly organized?
Now they've got the bailout money on top of a huge chunk of other bailout money they got last week.
It's interesting to read about Henry Paulson, they treasury Secretary and the guy most vocal about why the banks should get help and not the manufacturing industry. He's been in the financial sector in Wall St all of his working life, mostly with Goldman Sachs. he was their CEO before taking up Bush's offer to become Treasury Secretary. He is reportedly worth $300 million in personal wealth. Whilst technically out of Wall St, he is still in the loop of Wall St and his lifelong buddies are all in there.
Go figure??? Once again the Average Joe is having a snowball job done on him IMHO

[kirtida8]

Definitely something fishy going on here me thinks. :(

[Bakewell]

Congressman were baying for the automakers blood last week and demanding they change their business model, etc, etc.

I say let 'em sink. The rest of the world's car makers saw the smoke signals back in the seventies and began to act accordingly. Whether through arrogance or ignorance, the US car giants chose to ignore the obvious sea change on the horizon and now it's come back to bite them on the bum. If Americans still want "the right" to drive inexcusably large trucks and SUVs (as Ford/GM/Chrysler keep telling us) wellllll Tough. It's a different world now. So it'll cost US jobs if they close. It'll cost far more than that to keep them open. I'm off to glue-down the hair on my neck... and palms. (What's a boy gotta do to get paragraphs on this board these days..?)

[chris]

With the Car giants, where I cannot fathom out their argument for change in the US is that they are all global multinationals and already have fuel efficient vehicles that they build and sell elsewhere. So why can't/don't they simply start selling them over here?
GM
You have in Europe the Vauxhall/Opel Corsa, Astra and mini MPV variants of them - all with small efficient petrol and diesel engines.
Ford
They sell an americanised and vandalised version of the Focus here. it's engine is like 2.0 litres. That is their smallest US car, YET in Europe you have TWO cars smaller than that - the Fiesta and the Ka all with small petrol and turbo diesel engines. The vans they sell roll around with big V6 or V8 engines yet the Ford Transit is probably the best commercial van the world has seen (It is the pick for the bank robbers, so they can be wrong!!)
Chrysler
This don't have a small car here (explains why they in do-do). Yet in Europe the Chrysler 300 saloon can be had with a turbo diesel which gets twice the mpg of the petrol variant. Why isn't it sold here?? Maybe then , they wouldn't be in such big do-do.

Diesels
Europe sells more diesels than petrol cars now and all the luxury brands sell their top models with turbo diesels. YET in the US, only Volkswagen seem to be the only seller of car based diesels.

A recent road test in Europe of the Lexus 600 Hybrid (the top model) showed it to be less efficient and higher emissions than the equivalent turbo diesels form BMW and Mercedes.

My BIL was telling me that a recent road test was conducted to see which car could go from London to much on a tankful of gas. They pitted a turbo diesel 3 series BMW against the Prius. The Beemer got their on a tankful with fuel to spare and didn't have to make any concessions. and achieved over 55 mpg. The Prius had to shut off air con and other ancillaries to attempt the tankful - which it didn't and achieved only 47mpg. I think the average joe is once again being snowballed in the US.

[Bakewell]

... that they are all global multinationals and already have fuel efficient vehicles that they build and sell elsewhere. So why can't/don't they simply start selling them over here?

Rats! I meant to say that as I was slavering away! I rented three different cars whilst home on a visit. I was stunned at how nippy cars were! AND they go happily round corners. I was a reborn boy racer (once I'd stopped scraping the kerb...). We zipped about all over the lumpier bits of England and I was convinced the petrol gauge was a bit optimistic at first. .The Prius had to shut off air con and other ancillaries to attempt the tankful - which it didn't and achieved only 47mpg. I think the average joe is once again being snowballed in the US.

I had the dubious pleasure of driving a Prius for a fortnight. In heavy, stop-start traffic - which we seldom see in Florida - it's a petrol-buyer's dream. But it's no better than most ordinary cars on the open road. I remain unconvinced that it balances out in the end. Yet to come is the problem of what to do with all of those Prius batteries when they've out-lived their usefulness? Add to that the fact its manufacture consumes about the same energy as it does to build a couple of Humvees, and the green credentials start to fade a bit. American Japanese marques have lost their minds though. For those of us who can get by with a small pick-up, what choice is there? Toyota, a reasonably green company until it's most recent range, have dispensed with it all and commence with the heavier end of mid-sized up to the usual V8s that run on diced wolves. Nissan is the same and Honda have the big truck for Nancy Boys. I don't geddit. My delightful better half had her heart set on a Smart. Now they decide there just might, after all, be a reasonable market for it in the US, they go and screw up the whole concept by making it heavier and basing it on a much less economic engine than the original. WHY have I lost paragraphs?WHY have I lost paragraphs? :confused:

[Bakewell]

Diesels
Europe sells more diesels than petrol cars now and all the luxury brands sell their top models with turbo diesels. YET in the US, only Volkswagen seem to be the only seller of car based diesels.

Strange. I noticed a few American cars back home. I spotted the Ford Ranger, the PT Cruiser, Jeep & Cherokee and a van of some sort. Know what? Every one was a diesel!

[Kriz1]

We have smart cars on the Cape...scary to see them next to such big SUVs..I would like one for nipping up the shops...but I don't really drive enough to worry about what I drive...

[Susie]

I must admit I am surprised that the USA does not seem to produce cars with duel type fuel, eg battery and petrol options

Or do they make them?

[telco]

With the Car giants, where I cannot fathom out their argument for change in the US is that they are all global multinationals and already have fuel efficient vehicles that they build and sell elsewhere. So why can't/don't they simply start selling them over here?
GM
You have in Europe the Vauxhall/Opel Corsa, Astra and mini MPV variants of them - all with small efficient petrol and diesel engines.
Ford
They sell an americanised and vandalised version of the Focus here. it's engine is like 2.0 litres. That is their smallest US car, YET in Europe you have TWO cars smaller than that - the Fiesta and the Ka all with small petrol and turbo diesel engines. The vans they sell roll around with big V6 or V8 engines yet the Ford Transit is probably the best commercial van the world has seen (It is the pick for the bank robbers, so they can be wrong!!)
Chrysler
This don't have a small car here (explains why they in do-do). Yet in Europe the Chrysler 300 saloon can be had with a turbo diesel which gets twice the mpg of the petrol variant. Why isn't it sold here?? Maybe then , they wouldn't be in such big do-do.

Diesels
Europe sells more diesels than petrol cars now and all the luxury brands sell their top models with turbo diesels. YET in the US, only Volkswagen seem to be the only seller of car based diesels.

A recent road test in Europe of the Lexus 600 Hybrid (the top model) showed it to be less efficient and higher emissions than the equivalent turbo diesels form BMW and Mercedes.

My BIL was telling me that a recent road test was conducted to see which car could go from London to much on a tankful of gas. They pitted a turbo diesel 3 series BMW against the Prius. The Beemer got their on a tankful with fuel to spare and didn't have to make any concessions. and achieved over 55 mpg. The Prius had to shut off air con and other ancillaries to attempt the tankful - which it didn't and achieved only 47mpg. I think the average joe is once again being snowballed in the US.


Dont forget that Chevy bought out Daewoo, and sell 1.0 litre cars in Europe under the Chevrolet badge!!

The real issue is mileage. a 1.6 litre Astra engine cannot take the mileage most Americans want in an engine. After 100,000 miles it's done or ready for a overhaul. I the UK, if we were buying a car, and saw it had 50,000 miles + on it, we would turn away. here I have seen second hand SUV's with 100,000 on the clock, and still asking top price. Most V8's will go 200,000 easy.
European and small cars are just not built for the long haul journeys that Americans do, and dont want to buy them. City folk, for sure should all be driving smaller vehicles, but rural America???? That will take some work.....

[Carl]

If Anyone watched Top Gear this week they prove thatthere are many cheaper cars with better gas mileage than the Prius. It was entertaining and informative.

Carl.

[chris]

I agree with Bakewell on the Prius batteries. My neighbour has one and I wonder what will happen to secondhand values when the 2nd or third owner has the dubious privilege of replacing one of those batteries. God knows what the cost will be and then where is the cost savings??
You also have the issue of disposal of the damn old batteries plus of course no-one really comes clean about the energy costs involved in making the damn things in the first place.
I know its fossil fuel but diesel to me is certainly the way forward in the medium if not long term.
Kriz, you don't park a Smartcar NEXT to a big SUV, it goes INSIDE!! Didn't you know that!!:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Ron]

any offers to bail me out?

[Bakewell]

I must admit I am surprised that the USA does not seem to produce cars with duel type fuel, eg battery and petrol options

Or do they make them?

I'm assuming that "Hybrid" means battery/petrol in all cases here?

There's the Ford Escape Hybrid. I'm sure there's a Hybrid Cadillac Escalade... in fact, some other GM SUVs, too. And there are Hondas.

Lexus was supposed to be launching a Hybrid pick-up, too.

[Bakewell]

With the Car giants, where I cannot fathom out their argument for change in the US is that they are all global multinationals and already have fuel efficient vehicles that they build and sell elsewhere. So why can't/don't they simply start selling them over here?
GM
You have in Europe the Vauxhall/Opel Corsa, Astra and mini MPV variants of them - all with small efficient petrol and diesel engines.

I had a rabidly patriotic American neighbour who had something like five trucks and SUVs - all Chevy. His brother, for whatever reason, asked him to look after his car for a few months. It was a leeetle, plasticky-looking thing and the neighbour was disgusted to discover it was just a re-badged Kia.

[Bakewell]

The real issue is mileage. a 1.6 litre Astra engine cannot take the mileage most Americans want in an engine. After 100,000 miles it's done or ready for a overhaul. I the UK, if we were buying a car, and saw it had 50,000 miles + on it, we would turn away.

For about three years or so, I used to have to commute 2,200 miles a week. I spoke to a few people I knew who did the same and they all told me to find a car that was around a year old and had clocked-up 100,000 miles. I ended up buying a Subaru.

I only ever had to replace a radiator, a CV joint and 32,000 tyres in two years. So I bought another with 120,000 and sold it on for peanuts at 430,000 and I hear it's STILL going!

Incidentally, that was back home... US-built Subarus are just the pits.

Until about '92, most American engines were pretty good because they were so simple. Then they finally caught up with the rest of the world and got into electronics and electromechanics and that was the kiss of death.

I find that automatic transmissions fail with nauseating regularity and, if you're daft enough to by a secondhand... sorry, previously enjoyed manual car, the last clown that crunched and ground it along the roads had to have a new clutch every 7,000 miles.

Mind, I've yet to find a mechanic that knows how to replace a clutch and have it working satisfactorily.

For trips to Lowe's and antique markets, I have a Chevy pick-up. Once it hit 65,000, it was just a matter of time before I'd replaced just about everything but the engine block and the steering wheel.

On the other hand, we also have a Mini. Thankfully, it's still under warranty as all evidence suggests that a lot of Bostik was used in its manufacture.